Wow, What a Difference Stimulus Made

[jpn]

After the Great Recession of 2008-09, we only enacted weak economic stimulus. The political debate was dominated by concern for deficits.

Since then we learned that deficit fears were overdrawn. As a result, during the pandemic recession we poured buckets of stimulus money into the economy.

What a difference:


All conservatives have left to complain about is inflation. With unemployment functionally at zero, some (probably) temporary inflation is a terrific tradeoff.

Next time conservatives find themselves in power during a recession, what do you think they'll choose? Yeah, me too.

 

[Ishm]

Agree about the stupid politics involved, but the two examples are not really comparable imo. 2008/9 was a massive structural failure of the financial systems. That needed time to get worked out of the economy without leaving it structurally faulty still. It also took time to get confodence restored.

2020 was an external event hit to a structurally stronger economy. People still have faith in the core economics, and can visibly see the 'repair' as covid gets better managed. In reality, a bunch of countries have probably overstimulated because of the uncertainty around where covid was heading. We are talking about multiples of the stimulus applied in 2009 etc rather than minor increases. We are talking about, for the US and some others, levels of debt that will drag on growth for lifetimes rather than years.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

I put my BidenBucks to real good use.

Thank you Mr. President!!!

 

[Mr Person]

Ah, but they know how to handle facts: announce the opposite. Specifically, that the economy recovered despite Obama but because of Trump.

The more absurd the better, since that's more likely to annoy a liberal.

 

[Lutherf]

After the Great Recession of 2008-09, we only enacted weak economic stimulus. The political debate was dominated by concern for deficits.

Since then we learned that deficit fears were overdrawn. As a result, during the pandemic recession we poured buckets of stimulus money into the economy.

What a difference:

View attachment 67371438
All conservatives have left to complain about is inflation. With unemployment functionally at zero, some (probably) temporary inflation is a terrific tradeoff.

Next time conservatives find themselves in power during a recession, what do you think they'll choose? Yeah, me too.

And this just goes to show how great our economy could be if we pumped even more money in, especially when things are good. People will spend more and it will be awesome! If we simply handed every man, woman and child a trillion dollars we'd have the greatest economy in the universe!

 

[EdwinWillers]

I put my BidenBucks to real good use.

Thank you Mr. President!!!

View attachment 67371449

Meh, sleeping pills only last so long... and Prevagen isn't that effective on some memory issues.

 

[Maxell;4]

Anyone here actually spend their stimulus money?
If you work for a living it didn't amount to much.
At best it was a fake stimulus. A lot of money in total but nothing to speak of for anyone.
The only ones it really affects are those who will have to pay it back through taxes....according to Biden. those making over $400K.
(if you don't count your heating bill and fuel bill doubled, the double digit inflation on EVERYTHING, that is)

But since there is some comparison to the 2008 economy and the 2020 economy, one thing is missing.
In 2008, the housing market crashed because of Fannie and Freddie, both run by democrats, which demanded that banks give loans to everyone to bolster the housing market....even those who had no means or intention of paying them back.
But the democrats were never blamed for what they did.....they blamed it on Bush.
And in 2020 when Covid became real and affected everyone.....the democrats wasted no time blaming Trump......who wasn't responsible for anything except pushing the creation of the vaccines.
Political bias exists in everything, recession, poverty, wealth etc.
Pretending the stimulus money made any difference in the economy is asinine. It didn't amount to enough to make the difference.
The current unemployment rate may look good but it doesn't tell the entire story.
10% to 15% of the work force is not working....they are home because of illness...or if they are teachers because of union protection.
Things aren't back to normal; empty shelves, empty car lots, no employees. The numbers don't tell the real story.

 

[What if...?]

Ah, but they know how to handle facts: announce the opposite. Specifically, that the economy recovered despite Obama but because of Trump.

The more absurd the better, since that's more likely to annoy a liberal.

Which is another beta behavior. I love the fact their follower stripes are showing. Not an alpha in the bunch.

 

[What if...?]

And this just goes to show how great our economy could be if we pumped even more money in, especially when things are good. People will spend more and it will be awesome! If we simply handed every man, woman and child a trillion dollars we'd have the greatest economy in the universe!

Or stopped handing billions to folks who already have billions.

They just buy more access to more billions with it.

 

[What if...?]

Anyone here actually spend their stimulus money?
If you work for a living it didn't amount to much.
At best it was a fake stimulus. A lot of money in total but nothing to speak of for anyone.
The only ones it really affects are those who will have to pay it back through taxes....according to Biden. those making over $400K.
(if you don't count your heating bill and fuel bill doubled, the double digit inflation on EVERYTHING, that is)

But since there is some comparison to the 2008 economy and the 2020 economy, one thing is missing.
In 2008, the housing market crashed because of Fannie and Freddie, both run by democrats, which demanded that banks give loans to everyone to bolster the housing market....even those who had no means or intention of paying them back.
But the democrats were never blamed for what they did.....they blamed it on Bush.
And in 2020 when Covid became real and affected everyone.....the democrats wasted no time blaming Trump......who wasn't responsible for anything except pushing the creation of the vaccines.
Political bias exists in everything, recession, poverty, wealth etc.
Pretending the stimulus money made any difference in the economy is asinine. It didn't amount to enough to make the difference.
The current unemployment rate may look good but it doesn't tell the entire story.
10% to 15% of the work force is not working....they are home because of illness...or if they are teachers because of union protection.
Things aren't back to normal; empty shelves, empty car lots, no employees. The numbers don't tell the real story.

Nope. The housing crash was flippers walking away from their projects when the market turned. Poor folks defaulted at the same rate or lower than usual. Flippers in droves. I was working in remodeling at the time and when we heard on the news that 85% of home sales the previous month in San Diego were to flippers we knew the gravy train was over.

 

[Hatuey]

And this just goes to show how great our economy could be if we pumped even more money in, especially when things are good. People will spend more and it will be awesome! If we simply handed every man, woman and child a trillion dollars we'd have the greatest economy in the universe!

Ah, the classic dilemma of understanding that giving a glass of water may help a person, but no more, otherwise other persins will come and ask for oceans of water, and we don't have oceans of water laying around.

Very wise. Very wise indeed.

 

[The Work Outing]

After the Great Recession of 2008-09, we only enacted weak economic stimulus. The political debate was dominated by concern for deficits.

Since then we learned that deficit fears were overdrawn. As a result, during the pandemic recession we poured buckets of stimulus money into the economy.

What a difference:

View attachment 67371438
All conservatives have left to complain about is inflation. With unemployment functionally at zero, some (probably) temporary inflation is a terrific tradeoff.

Next time conservatives find themselves in power during a recession, what do you think they'll choose? Yeah, me too.

The economy tanked because the government(s) closed it down through covid lockdowns.
And the economy rebounded because the government ended the lockdowns and allowed the economy to open up again.
Common knowledge and common sense.

But, you are somehow twisting that around as proof that government stimuli works?!?
Okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.

That's like a guy losing his job, owing $1,000 in back rent and being threatened with eviction.
But he gets his job back and pays off the back rent with his first pay check.
However, you come along and claim that it was not getting his job back that saved him from eviction.
It was the $100 you lent him until pay day, after he got his job back that saved him.
Sorry pal...the job saved him...not you.

The end of the lockdowns caused the economy to rebound...not the government stimuli.


And, to top it off?
Thanks at least partially to that ginormous spending?
The inflation rate is the worst since 1982.
And still rising.

 

[eohrnberger]

The economy tanked because the government(s) closed it down through covid lockdowns.
And the economy rebounded because the government ended the lockdowns and allowed the economy to open up again.
Common knowledge and common sense.

But, you are somehow twisting that around as proof that government stimuli works?!?
Okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.

That's like a guy losing his job, owing $1,000 in back rent and being threatened with eviction.
But he gets his job back and pays off the back rent with his first pay check.
However, you come along and claim that it was not getting his job back that saved him from eviction.
It was the $100 you lent him until pay day, after he got his job back that saved him.
Sorry pal...the job saved him...not you.

The end of the lockdowns caused the economy to rebound...not the government stimuli.


And, to top it off?
Thanks at least partially to that ginormous spending?
The inflation rate is the worst since 1982.
And still rising.

The administration is claiming the similar thing / tactic with jobs.

 

[Gateman_Wen]

After the Great Recession of 2008-09, we only enacted weak economic stimulus. The political debate was dominated by concern for deficits.

Since then we learned that deficit fears were overdrawn. As a result, during the pandemic recession we poured buckets of stimulus money into the economy.

What a difference:

View attachment 67371438
All conservatives have left to complain about is inflation. With unemployment functionally at zero, some (probably) temporary inflation is a terrific tradeoff.

Next time conservatives find themselves in power during a recession, what do you think they'll choose? Yeah, me too.

What do you mean "Next time conservatives find themselves in power during a recession"?

Every recession starts under a republican,

 

[Taylor]

After the Great Recession of 2008-09, we only enacted weak economic stimulus. The political debate was dominated by concern for deficits.

Since then we learned that deficit fears were overdrawn. As a result, during the pandemic recession we poured buckets of stimulus money into the economy.

What a difference:

View attachment 67371438
All conservatives have left to complain about is inflation. With unemployment functionally at zero, some (probably) temporary inflation is a terrific tradeoff.

Next time conservatives find themselves in power during a recession, what do you think they'll choose? Yeah, me too.

Lol. If they were trying to make a serious argument with that chart they'd have at least got the shading right. Now you just need to add where the stimulus money entered the economy to make the entire argument fall apart.

 

[Lutherf]

Lol. If they were trying to make a serious argument with that chart they'd have at least got the shading right. Now you just need to add where the stimulus money entered the economy to make the entire argument fall apart.

This is the internet. One of the key features of internet is that it provides an excellent platform for every knucklehead on the planet to find a chart that validates their boneheaded ideas.

 

[CaughtInThe]

This is gonna piss off the republicans who don't want our economy to recover.

 

[Exquisitor]

This is gonna piss off the republicans who don't want our economy to recover.

Throw them out in 2022.

 

[mrjurrs]

Anyone here actually spend their stimulus money?
If you work for a living it didn't amount to much.
At best it was a fake stimulus. A lot of money in total but nothing to speak of for anyone.
The only ones it really affects are those who will have to pay it back through taxes....according to Biden. those making over $400K.
(if you don't count your heating bill and fuel bill doubled, the double digit inflation on EVERYTHING, that is)

But since there is some comparison to the 2008 economy and the 2020 economy, one thing is missing.
In 2008, the housing market crashed because of Fannie and Freddie, both run by democrats, which demanded that banks give loans to everyone to bolster the housing market....even those who had no means or intention of paying them back.
But the democrats were never blamed for what they did.....they blamed it on Bush.
And in 2020 when Covid became real and affected everyone.....the democrats wasted no time blaming Trump......who wasn't responsible for anything except pushing the creation of the vaccines.
Political bias exists in everything, recession, poverty, wealth etc.
Pretending the stimulus money made any difference in the economy is asinine. It didn't amount to enough to make the difference.
The current unemployment rate may look good but it doesn't tell the entire story.
10% to 15% of the work force is not working....they are home because of illness...or if they are teachers because of union protection.
Things aren't back to normal; empty shelves, empty car lots, no employees. The numbers don't tell the real story.

We should rely on feelings and not statistics to measure our economy? No thanks.

 

[Tbird19482]

Anyone here actually spend their stimulus money?
If you work for a living it didn't amount to much.
At best it was a fake stimulus. A lot of money in total but nothing to speak of for anyone.
The only ones it really affects are those who will have to pay it back through taxes....according to Biden. those making over $400K.
(if you don't count your heating bill and fuel bill doubled, the double digit inflation on EVERYTHING, that is)

But since there is some comparison to the 2008 economy and the 2020 economy, one thing is missing.
In 2008, the housing market crashed because of Fannie and Freddie, both run by democrats, which demanded that banks give loans to everyone to bolster the housing market....even those who had no means or intention of paying them back.
But the democrats were never blamed for what they did.....they blamed it on Bush.
And in 2020 when Covid became real and affected everyone.....the democrats wasted no time blaming Trump......who wasn't responsible for anything except pushing the creation of the vaccines.
Political bias exists in everything, recession, poverty, wealth etc.
Pretending the stimulus money made any difference in the economy is asinine. It didn't amount to enough to make the difference.
The current unemployment rate may look good but it doesn't tell the entire story.
10% to 15% of the work force is not working....they are home because of illness...or if they are teachers because of union protection.
Things aren't back to normal; empty shelves, empty car lots, no employees. The numbers don't tell the real story.

And IF Bush was a Dem President YOU would be all over him for the Recession
You right wingers can't have it both ways .
If we have a Dem President and something bad happens it is all his fault and if something good happens you don't give him any credit you try to say somebody else did it and If we have Republican President and something Good happens HE did it . it was all the President. and if something Bad happens then it was somebody else's fault.
as I said. you can't have it both ways if your going to blame one President for what happens when he is in office you have to blame every President for what happens when they were in office
have a nice day

 

[Maxell;4]

The Great Recession, 2007 to 2009 can be explained very simply. See if you can understand it.
The collapse of the housing market, fueled by low interest rates, easy credit, insufficient regulation and toxic subprime mortgages led to the economic crisis.

If Bush was responsible for even one of those factors I sure as hell would be blaming him as well.
But we both know he wasn't.
Your posts seem to blame Trump for things he didn't do. That's your M.O., not mine.

 

[Kushinator]

This is the internet. One of the key features of internet is that it provides an excellent platform for every knucklehead on the planet to find a chart that validates their boneheaded ideas.

What chart can you provide? I'm positive whatever you pull up will be a thinly veiled attempt at partisanship. Maybe tyler durden can help you?

 

[ALiberalModerate]

While I would agree that stimulus in 2009 was insufficient, at the time we had a financial crisis, and nations never recover quickly from a financial crisis, so it is a bit apples and oranges in that regard.

 

[What if...?]

Agree about the stupid politics involved, but the two examples are not really comparable imo. 2008/9 was a massive structural failure of the financial systems. That needed time to get worked out of the economy without leaving it structurally faulty still. It also took time to get confodence restored.

2020 was an external event hit to a structurally stronger economy. People still have faith in the core economics, and can visibly see the 'repair' as covid gets better managed. In reality, a bunch of countries have probably overstimulated because of the uncertainty around where covid was heading. We are talking about multiples of the stimulus applied in 2009 etc rather than minor increases. We are talking about, for the US and some others, levels of debt that will drag on growth for lifetimes rather than years.

Yes. But “keeping the pump primed” obviously helped more than belt tightening. The latter let the economy slow to the point it took years to pick up speed again.

 

[Ishm]

Yes. But “keeping the pump primed” obviously helped more than belt tightening. The latter let the economy slow to the point it took years to pick up speed again.

Yes, but look at what that means for deficit and debt levels. From 2009 to 2016 the growth was slow, but deficits were dramatically reduced. The 2017 tax cut stimulus led to faster growth but by 2019 the deficit had almost doubled and the forecast was for it to keep growing. So, slower but permanently sustainable growth, or a sugar fix that becomes an unsustainable addiction?

So now today the stimulus has worked, but the govt has to try and detox the economy from a $2.5t per year addiction without crashing it. Great economies have to be more tortoise than hare. Stimulus has it's place during down times, but like painkillers you have to stop the prescription as early as possible or risk a damaging addiction.