JOHNYJ said:The United States looks like Haiti on a bad day ! America has been humilliated world wide by the incompetent handling of ths tragedy !
How safe is the rest of the country ? what if this had been a terrorist incident is this how Homeland security would handled it ?
I'll leave it at this, the primary and secondary response failed because of a lack of true leadership, this made the tertiary responders task much harder, New Orleans should have been the primary and Louisiana should have been the secondary, we failed, now national has to fix the whole thing, but that needs to be resolved after the crisis, not now as you have very succinctly mentioned.gregg729 said:At any rate, the response to Katrina has been totally incompetant. I encourage resisting the leftie urge to exploit this for another Bush-bashing tirade - that is very petty behavior.
I don't know how old you are but you are brilliant beyond your years.There definitely should be a day of reckoning in the future where the incompetant are brought to task. Those that are calling for heads and other variations of the Spanish Inquisition are interfering with the most important tasks of the day, saving lives and recovery. I ask that we all can be mature enough to wait for the proper time and place to start the task of blaming and calling for heads and other witch hunts - the time is not now, and those who are trying to make the time now are bad people, more interested in politics than saving lives.
it's coming together slowly, but it is getting better.Anyway, it seems to me that there are currently hundreds of agencies on the federal, state, local, and nonprof levels involved in trying to help. That's awesome, but it seems to be totally uncoordinated, with each agency doing their own thing. FEMA sounds like the natural for taking charge of coordinating everyone's efforts, but they took an apparent 3 day vacation before jumping into the disaster zones. That's crap, that's what led to the breakdown of law and order in NOLA recently.
For the most part you are correct, it has always gone local/state/federal, but maybe in the future a competant singular body should have absolute authority in the case of impending or direct disaster.We need a federal agency to take charge of everything, all relief efforts, and start coordinating recovery right now. This has started to happen a little bit with the introduction of a massive National Guard presence, but their presence is basically just a band aid until a coordinated plan is put in effect. Between Homeland Security, FEMA, or the National Guard, one of those groups needs to assume overall control of all relief efforts in the ravaged areas of the 3 states. FEMA would seem to be the obvious choice, as they have the most experience in this area, but I would suggest relieving their director before that happens due to his ****-poor initial response. Regardless, one agency needs to take control and start directing the entire effort - it's obvious this "every relief agency do their own thing" tactic has yielded crappy results.
As a Louisianian, I have some good news, the crime problem is being reighned in, the levee seems to be fixed, and the chaos is being handled, so the immediate crisis seems to be getting better, but I have a horrible feeling that there will be alot of bad news on the human side after recovery gets in the worst areas.I do not think we have yet reached the low point of this crisis, things will still get worse before they get better. We need a competant person, or panel of people, to be in charge, directing the overall recovery efforts, right now. The mayor of New Orleans was completely right - the efforts we've seen so far (except for maybe the past 24 hours) are complete BS.
LaMidRighter said:I'll leave it at this, the primary and secondary response failed because of a lack of true leadership, this made the tertiary responders task much harder, New Orleans should have been the primary and Louisiana should have been the secondary, we failed, now national has to fix the whole thing, but that needs to be resolved after the crisis, not now as you have very succinctly mentioned.
I don't know how old you are but you are brilliant beyond your years.
it's coming together slowly, but it is getting better.
For the most part you are correct, it has always gone local/state/federal, but maybe in the future a competant singular body should have absolute authority in the case of impending or direct disaster.
As a Louisianian, I have some good news, the crime problem is being reighned in, the levee seems to be fixed, and the chaos is being handled, so the immediate crisis seems to be getting better, but I have a horrible feeling that there will be alot of bad news on the human side after recovery gets in the worst areas.
I'm not brilliant by any means, I'm just level-headed - and we all know how rare a commodity that is in this age of instant gratification.
I agree with what you've said completely, but you also need to recognize - that in terms of immediate response to a natural disaster - the traditional roles are reversed for a short period. Local responders are primary responders - tertiary responders are the feds. The academic question is, at what point in time after the disaster are the feds obligated to assume primary responsibility? The reason why it's particularly moronic to play this little blame game in this instance is that the significant aid response came in so late after-the-fact, that all levels of government had time to do their share of screwing it up.... When I see dozens of abandoned, flooded out school buses on TV that coulda been used to evacuate those left behind, I just shake my head in dismay about the stupidity of partisan politics that are going on with those that are pointing their fingers only at the White House....
One thing, if anything, the President surely has right, right now. Let's save the lives we can. Let's get the recovery/rebuilding process underway - then we can all bitch about who's a jerk.... Until that point, everyone should smarten up!
And LA - I wish the best for ya bud. and all those in the affected areas - I personally feel scummy about blaming or defending politicians when so many thousands down there just want some water, or at best, are wading through their homes looking for any personal momentos that can be saved.
On a side note, I left my job for personal reasons a week before Katrina hit, and now a have a unique opportunity. I'm doing Red Cross training on Wednesday, and I'd feel so lucky to be able to go down and help.... If anyone has a few weeks free, they should do the same. (P.S. Call your local Red Cross, not the number you see on all the networks - you'll get better results.)
taxpayer said:Guess we can't blame Bush for this problem, after all he did start our new "Homeland Security" program.
Blame Homeland Security for spending the $680 MILLION Bush gave them on "COLOR CHARTS!" Although rumors are out that Bush owns the company that manufactured the "color charts".
But seriously now, I did hear a statement that someone from Homeland Security made. It was on TV, I don't remember what channel.
After an hour of talking they said the bottom line was that the people should NOT depend on our Gov for any help if we took nuclear hits. Help should come from the states, local cities and towns and that they would provide some money to the states, citys and towns to make their own disaster plans.
So I guess what Homeland Security is saying is that "you are on your own."
gregg729 said:We need a federal agency to take charge of everything, all relief efforts, and start coordinating recovery right now. This has started to happen a little bit with the introduction of a massive National Guard presence, but their presence is basically just a band aid until a coordinated plan is put in effect. Between Homeland Security, FEMA, or the National Guard, one of those groups needs to assume overall control of all relief efforts in the ravaged areas of the 3 states. FEMA would seem to be the obvious choice, as they have the most experience in this area, but I would suggest relieving their director before that happens due to his ****-poor initial response. Regardless, one agency needs to take control and start directing the entire effort - it's obvious this "every relief agency do their own thing" tactic has yielded crappy results.
Why would we just Bush-bash? Bashing for all leaders in this case because they all screwed up! Every level of leadership did something wrong from the President cutting funding and not stopping his vacation to the mayor not organizing better. But what can be said for the people on the lower levels such as the mayor is that when something like this strikes, plans can go awry so easily on any level, especially the local one.gregg729 said:Well, let's not exaggerate here - Haiti will never have the ability to look like the US on their best day ever - come on, that goes without saying...
At any rate, the response to Katrina has been totally incompetant. I encourage resisting the leftie urge to exploit this for another Bush-bashing tirade - that is very petty behavior.
No offense, the Repubs are going to say that you are wise beyond your years or whatever, but literally, we can do both-it's that simple. We aren't going to divert any manpower or attention away from the rescue effort in what is going on in the investigation.There definitely should be a day of reckoning in the future where the incompetant are brought to task. Those that are calling for heads and other variations of the Spanish Inquisition are interfering with the most important tasks of the day, saving lives and recovery. I ask that we all can be mature enough to wait for the proper time and place to start the task of blaming and calling for heads and other witch hunts - the time is not now, and those who are trying to make the time now are bad people, more interested in politics than saving lives.
And who leads FEMA?! Thank you...who appointed the head of FEMA...the questions that I could all ask lead exactly to same point-the president has some fault or at least people in his administration do. Homeland Security should step up and take control frankly because they are better at this than anyone theoretically.Anyway, it seems to me that there are currently hundreds of agencies on the federal, state, local, and nonprof levels involved in trying to help. That's awesome, but it seems to be totally uncoordinated, with each agency doing their own thing. FEMA sounds like the natural for taking charge of coordinating everyone's efforts, but they took an apparent 3 day vacation before jumping into the disaster zones. That's crap, that's what led to the breakdown of law and order in NOLA recently.
Yeah, that would be Homeland security. I don't need to say any more.We need a federal agency to take charge of everything, all relief efforts, and start coordinating recovery right now. This has started to happen a little bit with the introduction of a massive National Guard presence, but their presence is basically just a band aid until a coordinated plan is put in effect. Between Homeland Security, FEMA, or the National Guard, one of those groups needs to assume overall control of all relief efforts in the ravaged areas of the 3 states. FEMA would seem to be the obvious choice, as they have the most experience in this area, but I would suggest relieving their director before that happens due to his ****-poor initial response. Regardless, one agency needs to take control and start directing the entire effort - it's obvious this "every relief agency do their own thing" tactic has yielded crappy results.
Yet, that person has received so much of the blame for everything that has gone wrong. No offense to people who don't know much about crisis management, but when the ***** hits the fan, people don't know what the hell to do, and the plan doesn't matter anymore. Seriously. You can plan all you want and drill all you want, but this is what happens-mass chaos-when people even do that.I do not think we have yet reached the low point of this crisis, things will still get worse before they get better. We need a competant person, or panel of people, to be in charge, directing the overall recovery efforts, right now. The mayor of New Orleans was completely right - the efforts we've seen so far (except for maybe the past 24 hours) are complete BS.
Stinger said:That was Nagin and the local officals saying that 13 months ago.
scottyz said:If there were a terrorist attack or natural disaster in a major city tomorrow we'd be pretty much helpless. Even with warning it took Homeland defense 3 days to react, so you can safely assume in the event of a surprise terrorist attack it would take them much longer. That's what we get for appointing a Arabian horse org. director to run FEMA I guess.
Lets hypothosize for a minute, or analyze your comment.JOHNYJ said:The United States looks like Haiti on a bad day ! America has been humilliated world wide by the incompetent handling of ths tragedy !
How safe is the rest of the country ? what if this had been a terrorist incident is this how Homeland security would handled it ?
You've been to Haiti? Have any pics?The United States looks like Haiti on a bad day !
Yep, you can't mess with free will of people staying during the hurricane! But it is not a partisan issue, of why they stayed!America has been humilliated world wide by the incompetent handling of ths tragedy !
The rest of the country wasn't built on a sinking foundation, in between two bodies of water! What were you expecting?How safe is the rest of the country ?
Yea, those :soap terrorists and thier "Hurricane making machines." Its FEMA not "Home Land Security" that deals with hurricane damage! Try a little less :spin: , and be open to others ideas! If I wanted to be nagged at I would go find a girl with PMS!what if this had been a terrorist incident is this how Homeland security would handled it?
I'm not sure why you bother if you wont even get your information correct. The director of FEMA is a man. His last job was Commissioner of the International Arabian Horse Association and he got fired from it. Nothing in his background qualifies him for his position at FEMA.Navy Pride said:Why do I bother? Her job for the last 3 years was deputy director a FEMA
The Dept. of Homeland security controls FEMA.stsburns said:Yea, those :soap terrorists and thier "Hurricane making machines." Its FEMA not "Home Land Security" that deals with hurricane damage! Try a little less :spin: , and be open to others ideas! If I wanted to be nagged at I would go find a girl with PMS!
MY BAD! But can they can't control everything about FEMA. Its just simply coincidence and your banking on it! But if your going to complain about their response to hurricane Katrina as a fault of "National Security":scottyz said:The Dept. of Homeland security controls FEMA.
http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display?theme=13
Not to mention the people who choose to stay in New Orleans. If what FEMA did was not enough help, what would you consider as enough help? "scottyz" Try going through about 15 hurricanes! It will take a long time for people to get their FEMA checks! Because we know that's what the real issue is, isn't it!Rescues Continue, People Moving to Shelters
September 7, 2005 – The federal effort to save lives, sustain life, and support recovery and law enforcement operations in areas affected by Hurricane Katrina continues around the clock. There have been 47,000 rescues and 235,400 people housed in 750 shelters. 11.9 million meals have been served and tens of thousands of responders are on the ground.
http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/
Coincidence? What are you talking about? It's not a coincidence FEMA is controlled by DHS, that's the way the Gov. purposefully set it up. FEMA doesn't operate independently of DHS.stsburns said:MY BAD! But can they can't control everything about FEMA. Its just simply coincidence and your banking on it!
It's nice how you dismissed things from your own source!scottyz said:Coincidence? What are you talking about? It's not a coincidence FEMA is controlled by DHS, that's the way the Gov. purposefully set it up. FEMA doesn't operate independently of DHS.
scottyz said:The Dept. of Homeland security controls FEMA.
http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display?theme=13
Rescues Continue, People Moving to Shelters
September 7, 2005 – The federal effort to save lives, sustain life, and support recovery and law enforcement operations in areas affected by Hurricane Katrina continues around the clock. There have been 47,000 rescues and 235,400 people housed in 750 shelters. 11.9 million meals have been served and tens of thousands of responders are on the ground.
http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/
taxpayer said:No it was not! But nice try.
JOHNYJ said:The United States looks like Haiti on a bad day ! America has been humilliated world wide by the incompetent handling of ths tragedy !
How safe is the rest of the country ? what if this had been a terrorist incident is this how Homeland security would handled it ?
Stu Ghatze said:Horseshyte, ..it is the liberal loving media, & the democratic party that is HOPING for this perception!
It took a few days before the ball got rolling, ..but the fed & THE PRIVATE SECTOR OF VOLUNTEERS is helping in the aftermath of the hurricane!
Perhaps the local mayor who HAD 2,000 school buses, & other public transportation facilities should be asked, "Why didn't HE evacuate the poor as he had DAYS of warning in advance"?
THe local government IS the first responder, then the state...& then lastly the federal government upon the Governor's request!
So uh, ..where in the hell was the mayor of New Orleans besides sitting on his a.ss "waiting" for somebody else to rescue his citizens from a hurricane that he should have removed them from BEFORE the hurricane hit, & stupid governor who WAITED 24 hours BEFORE requesting federal aid?
IT does take some time to organize massive relief on that level, & logistics AFTER the fact...but the mayor, & governor deserve MOST of the blame for their own damn ineptitude, as THEY COULD HAVE SAVED LIVES BEFORE THE HURRICANE hit!
BTW, ..if you really believe the federal governments response is that bumbling, & innefective, I believe the American government should END all foreign aid, & all relief help for other countries ravaged by natural disasters.
You wouldn't want those governments getting swamped by their own brilliant efforts of efficiency with America getting in their way now,.. would you?
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