Women in face veils detained as France enforces ban

[Infinite Chaos]

At least two women have been detained in France while wearing Islamic veils across their faces, after a law banning the garment in public came into force.

Police said they were held not because of their veils but for joining an unauthorised protest against the ban.

--snip--

They had taken part in a demonstration outside Paris' Notre Dame cathedral. Police said the protest had not been authorised and so people were asked to move on. When they did not, they were arrested.

BBC Link

Just to be clear, the women were not arrested for wearing veils but for joining an un-authorised protest.

That said, I still have strong reservations about the principles of liberty that the French are misguidedly trying to protect here - you cannot enshrine liberty by restricting it - it's just not possible.
The ban in schools is perfectly fine - but in public and for ordinary members of the public this is just wrong.

 

[PeteEU]

Just to be clear, the women were not arrested for wearing veils but for joining an un-authorised protest.

That said, I still have strong reservations about the principles of liberty that the French are misguidedly trying to protect here - you cannot enshrine liberty by restricting it - it's just not possible.
The ban in schools is perfectly fine - but in public and for ordinary members of the public this is just wrong.

The Burka (full face veil) should be banned in any civilized country. It has nothing to do with religion period and any Muslim that tries to pull the religion card does not know his/her Koran well enough. The Koran says women should dress "modestly", which does not mean covering from head to toe only showing your eyes. The idea of a burka comes form the Arabian Peninsula and especially from the Wahabist inspired Islam, which is 1000% based on traditions on the peninsula and not fact in the Koran. For me there is no difference between the Burka and wearing a yellow Star of David or if you are in the US.. a pointy white hood.

Now I do agree in principle that people should have the right to wear whatever they want, but society already dictates what is allowed and not allowed to wear, even by law. We already ban balaclavas for security reasons (unless it is freezing of course) and we arrest people who go around wearing no cloths.. so we can not claim that society does not regulate how we dress and act. Now personally I believe a "ban" on Burkas and similar should not be needed as we already ban balaclavas and similar (things that cover your face in order to escape identification) for security reasons, and there is frankly no difference. A woman being forced to wear a burka is just as big security risk as a woman wearing a balaclava or the random "chav" or "anarchist" wearing something to cover his/her face. Enforcing already existing law could have avoided this discussion period.

The Burka, it is in most cases in forced on the women by a male family member(s) and older women... pure peer pressure based on tradition. No difference than wacko Mormon cults in the US forcing their children to have sex with each other and marry older men... tradition and peer pressure.

 

[liblady]

The Burka (full face veil) should be banned in any civilized country. It has nothing to do with religion period and any Muslim that tries to pull the religion card does not know his/her Koran well enough. The Koran says women should dress "modestly", which does not mean covering from head to toe only showing your eyes. The idea of a burka comes form the Arabian Peninsula and especially from the Wahabist inspired Islam, which is 1000% based on traditions on the peninsula and not fact in the Koran. For me there is no difference between the Burka and wearing a yellow Star of David or if you are in the US.. a pointy white hood.

Now I do agree in principle that people should have the right to wear whatever they want, but society already dictates what is allowed and not allowed to wear, even by law. We already ban balaclavas for security reasons (unless it is freezing of course) and we arrest people who go around wearing no cloths.. so we can not claim that society does not regulate how we dress and act. Now personally I believe a "ban" on Burkas and similar should not be needed as we already ban balaclavas and similar (things that cover your face in order to escape identification) for security reasons, and there is frankly no difference. A woman being forced to wear a burka is just as big security risk as a woman wearing a balaclava or the random "chav" or "anarchist" wearing something to cover his/her face. Enforcing already existing law could have avoided this discussion period.

The Burka, it is in most cases in forced on the women by a male family member(s) and older women... pure peer pressure based on tradition. No difference than wacko Mormon cults in the US forcing their children to have sex with each other and marry older men... tradition and peer pressure.

we don't actually ban balaclavas, nor should we ban burkas except for places like banks, airports, etc, where security IS an issue. and just as there are many interpretations of the bible, hence the million and one religions, there are going to be many interpretations of the koran. you can't force your interpretation on muslims, and i can't force my intrepretation on baptists. it's sad that people believe women should wear burkas, and it's sad that people believe the earth is only 6,000 years old, but people here are free to be lunatics as long as they don't harm anyone.

 

[PeteEU]

we don't actually ban balaclavas, nor should we ban burkas except for places like banks, airports, etc, where security IS an issue.

Yes you do... you use the security aspect regardless of where it is. Are you protesting in a balaclava in Washington, then you WILL get arrested. If you walk down Kansas City centre nakid, then you WILL get arrested.

and just as there are many interpretations of the bible, hence the million and one religions, there are going to be many interpretations of the koran.

**** those that interpret the Bible or Koran in such a way that 50% of the population is subjugated to the other 50%. That is NOT religion but out right sexism/racism or whatever you want to call it and we live in the 21st century where like it or not women are equals to men.

you can't force your interpretation on muslims, and i can't force my intrepretation on baptists.

If those interpretations conflict with standing law, socieites security and well being and most of all the rights of 50% of the population, then damn right you can force your interpretation on them. US law bans polygamy, something that Mormons allowed for many years and were forced to give up. Hence the US forced the Mormons to change their interpretation of the Bible. Jehovas Witness's can refuse blood, but if it threatens the life of said person or others, then doctors have the legal right to ignore that request. The Bible says gays should be killed, and yet society does not now days carry out that death sentence. The Koran states that a person stealing should loose his hand, but in the west we do not allow that.. is that suddenly breaking the religious freedom of Muslims?

it's sad that people believe women should wear burkas, and it's sad that people believe the earth is only 6,000 years old, but people here are free to be lunatics as long as they don't harm anyone.

The problem is they DO harm people. Peadofile Mormonish cults harm children, Orthodox Muslims harm women and girls, Muslims form Sub-Sahara mutilate girls, and so on and so on.. they are crazies, but you can not deny the do not harm people. And because of this, we must fight to contain them and slowly save those people they do harm. There is no freedom for everyone if just one person or a small group of people take the freedom of another small group and we do nothing to help them. What is next.. allowing sex trafficking of under-age girls because someone claims it is their religious right? Since when is it every okay that only 95% of the population is free or 50% of the population? Should we not strive for the 100% mark?

 

[Djoop]

The Burka (full face veil) should be banned in any civilized country. It has nothing to do with religion period and any Muslim that tries to pull the religion card does not know his/her Koran well enough. The Koran says women should dress "modestly", which does not mean covering from head to toe only showing your eyes. The idea of a burka comes form the Arabian Peninsula and especially from the Wahabist inspired Islam, which is 1000% based on traditions on the peninsula and not fact in the Koran. For me there is no difference between the Burka and wearing a yellow Star of David or if you are in the US.. a pointy white hood.

Now I do agree in principle that people should have the right to wear whatever they want, but society already dictates what is allowed and not allowed to wear, even by law. We already ban balaclavas for security reasons (unless it is freezing of course) and we arrest people who go around wearing no cloths.. so we can not claim that society does not regulate how we dress and act. Now personally I believe a "ban" on Burkas and similar should not be needed as we already ban balaclavas and similar (things that cover your face in order to escape identification) for security reasons, and there is frankly no difference. A woman being forced to wear a burka is just as big security risk as a woman wearing a balaclava or the random "chav" or "anarchist" wearing something to cover his/her face. Enforcing already existing law could have avoided this discussion period.

The Burka, it is in most cases in forced on the women by a male family member(s) and older women... pure peer pressure based on tradition. No difference than wacko Mormon cults in the US forcing their children to have sex with each other and marry older men... tradition and peer pressure.

:applaud

One of the rare occasions I completely agree with Petey. Unfortunately, he has left me with nothing to add to this thread. The Burka ban is rather silly, just not as silly as wearing one.

 

[MKULTRABOY]

Some women view their burqa as a privilege to anonymity...
The origin of hair coverings was popularized in muslim countries... in a women's movement.

Let's not pretend like we actually understand gender relations in the middle east.


But you could assume you do.

 

[DrunkenAsparagus]

Yes you do... you use the security aspect regardless of where it is. Are you protesting in a balaclava in Washington, then you WILL get arrested. If you walk down Kansas City centre nakid, then you WILL get arrested.

Kids walking around on Halloween in costumes are not arrested. Simply covering yourself up is not always a security issue, and if it is not an issue, then I think the ban is stupid. We do not see scores of burqa'd women shooting up banks. In airports or photos for government identification, a ban is understandable, as well as private businesses banning burqas on their premises, but a slight security risk from some is not a carte-blanche for a total ban.

**** those that interpret the Bible or Koran in such a way that 50% of the population is subjugated to the other 50%. That is NOT religion but out right sexism/racism or whatever you want to call it and we live in the 21st century where like it or not women are equals to men.

Then so are those countless Saintly relics around Europe. It can seem silly to you, but you are not the judge. You see the Burqa as a symbol of oppression, but many women like not being looked at amorously or feel closer to God by wearing it. They feel closer to God by donning the Burqa. It may seem strange and silly, but people do strange and silly things all of the time to feel closer to God. As for the women forced to wear the Burqa, banning a piece of cloth is not going to better their situation or make them less dominated by men.

If those interpretations conflict with standing law, socieites security and well being and most of all the rights of 50% of the population, then damn right you can force your interpretation on them. US law bans polygamy, something that Mormons allowed for many years and were forced to give up. Hence the US forced the Mormons to change their interpretation of the Bible.

As long as everyone is a consenting adult, I don't really care what Mormons do with their marriage.

Jehovas Witness's can refuse blood, but if it threatens the life of said person or others, then doctors have the legal right to ignore that request.

A conscious, independent adult is allowed to refuse life-saving care; now if they intend to harm a dependent by refusing care that is a different matter. Unlike the burqa issue, their refusal of care for others causes direct harm to others.

The Bible says gays should be killed, and yet society does not now days carry out that death sentence. The Koran states that a person stealing should loose his hand, but in the west we do not allow that.. is that suddenly breaking the religious freedom of Muslims?

Again, this directly violates the rights of others.

The problem is they DO harm people. Peadofile Mormonish cults harm children, Orthodox Muslims harm women and girls, Muslims form Sub-Sahara mutilate girls, and so on and so on.. they are crazies, but you can not deny the do not harm people. And because of this, we must fight to contain them and slowly save those people they do harm. There is no freedom for everyone if just one person or a small group of people take the freedom of another small group and we do nothing to help them. What is next.. allowing sex trafficking of under-age girls because someone claims it is their religious right? Since when is it every okay that only 95% of the population is free or 50% of the population? Should we not strive for the 100% mark?

You are offering a false dichotomy. Either women are enslaved and religious zealots are allowed to run roughshod over our freedom or we regulate or ban every strange religious ritual, even if everyone involved in it does so voluntarily (and yes, many women wear a burqa voluntarily. It certainly would not be the most that people have sacrificed for God.) Removing this Burqa will not make these women less oppressed or more liberated. Instead of tackling the issues of female subjugation, the French government has gotten bogged down in a battle against symbolism.

 

[liblady]

pete......we can't save the world, and i'm tired of pretending we can. personally, i think banning a burka would be fine, but only because I DON'T WEAR ONE. so, i have to put myself in another's shoes, so to speak, and if i wore one, of course i would not want it banned.

now, let me know when leisure suits are banned, i would like that!

 

[SheWolf]

Just to be clear, the women were not arrested for wearing veils but for joining an un-authorised protest.

That said, I still have strong reservations about the principles of liberty that the French are misguidedly trying to protect here - you cannot enshrine liberty by restricting it - it's just not possible.
The ban in schools is perfectly fine - but in public and for ordinary members of the public this is just wrong.

Unauthorized protest... I guess they really hate free speech over there... On a side note, who said these women in veils were submissive and passive. I love that they are protesting, and risking arrest for it...

 

[SheWolf]

The article says... People forcing women to wear the veil face a much larger fine and a prison sentence of up to two years.

.. that's kind of interesting

 

[Andalublue]

Unauthorized protest... I guess they really hate free speech over there... On a side note, who said these women in veils were submissive and passive. I love that they are protesting, and risking arrest for it...

Well, I'm guessing that if a few hundred people sat down and blocked traffic along Pennsylvania Avenue without permission and without prior arrangement, they might be detained too.

 

[washunut]

we don't actually ban balaclavas, nor should we ban burkas except for places like banks, airports, etc, where security IS an issue. and just as there are many interpretations of the bible, hence the million and one religions, there are going to be many interpretations of the koran. you can't force your interpretation on muslims, and i can't force my intrepretation on baptists. it's sad that people believe women should wear burkas, and it's sad that people believe the earth is only 6,000 years old, but people here are free to be lunatics as long as they don't harm anyone.

People who wear burkas believe the earth is only 6,000 years old. I did not know that, thanks.

BTW- I have even heard that some people believe that a virgin actually gave birth, before there was artifical insemination! Then the child actually turned to be some type of diety, amazing what some believe.

 

[PeteEU]

Well, I'm guessing that if a few hundred people sat down and blocked traffic along Pennsylvania Avenue without permission and without prior arrangement, they might be detained too.

No it takes much fewer in the US it seems...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/12/us/politics/12mayor.html

Sgt. Kimberly Schneider of the Capitol Police said Mr. Gray was among 41 people arrested.

 

[PeteEU]

Kids walking around on Halloween in costumes are not arrested. Simply covering yourself up is not always a security issue, and if it is not an issue, then I think the ban is stupid. We do not see scores of burqa'd women shooting up banks. In airports or photos for government identification, a ban is understandable, as well as private businesses banning burqas on their premises, but a slight security risk from some is not a carte-blanche for a total ban.

Give it time.. you are after all pating 6 year olds down in airports these days. But no, if the mask wearing is in conjunction with an event where it is normal, then you wont get arrested.. but you try walking down a major US city during the summer in a full face hood during the day and see how far you get...

Then so are those countless Saintly relics around Europe. It can seem silly to you, but you are not the judge. You see the Burqa as a symbol of oppression, but many women like not being looked at amorously or feel closer to God by wearing it. They feel closer to God by donning the Burqa.

They only remotely feel closer to god because men told them so. The Burka has nothing to do with religion.. it is like saying that mutilating female genitals is religious..

It may seem strange and silly, but people do strange and silly things all of the time to feel closer to God.

Nothing is preventing them from wearing it at home or in the Mosque.

As for the women forced to wear the Burqa, banning a piece of cloth is not going to better their situation or make them less dominated by men.

Of course it will. Having laws that help these women will always help them.. what is next, not having shelters for battered women? Not making it a crime for men to beat the **** out of women?

As long as everyone is a consenting adult, I don't really care what Mormons do with their marriage.

That is not the law in the US.. your personal feelings (which in principle I agree with) means nothing.

A conscious, independent adult is allowed to refuse life-saving care; now if they intend to harm a dependent by refusing care that is a different matter. Unlike the burqa issue, their refusal of care for others causes direct harm to others.

Burkas harm others as well.

Again, this directly violates the rights of others.

As does the Burka.

You are offering a false dichotomy. Either women are enslaved and religious zealots are allowed to run roughshod over our freedom or we regulate or ban every strange religious ritual, even if everyone involved in it does so voluntarily (and yes, many women wear a burqa voluntarily. It certainly would not be the most that people have sacrificed for God.) Removing this Burqa will not make these women less oppressed or more liberated. Instead of tackling the issues of female subjugation, the French government has gotten bogged down in a battle against symbolism.

Yes some women voluntarily accept being beaten by men, does that mean we should not make it illegal to do so? Some women agree to be married off to cousins because their father says so, so we should not ban forced marriages? Sorry but society is here to among other things, protect the weakest in society from the abuses of others... a burka is abuse pure and simple.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

The Burka (full face veil) should be banned in any civilized country. It has nothing to do with religion period and any Muslim that tries to pull the religion card does not know his/her Koran well enough. The Koran says women should dress "modestly", which does not mean covering from head to toe only showing your eyes. The idea of a burka comes form the Arabian Peninsula and especially from the Wahabist inspired Islam, which is 1000% based on traditions on the peninsula and not fact in the Koran. For me there is no difference between the Burka and wearing a yellow Star of David or if you are in the US.. a pointy white hood.

If you choose to wear one then you should have the right as long as you are not harming or inciting violence against another. That includes pointy white hoods.

Now I do agree in principle that people should have the right to wear whatever they want, but society already dictates what is allowed and not allowed to wear, even by law. We already ban balaclavas for security reasons (unless it is freezing of course) and we arrest people who go around wearing no cloths.. so we can not claim that society does not regulate how we dress and act. Now personally I believe a "ban" on Burkas and similar should not be needed as we already ban balaclavas and similar (things that cover your face in order to escape identification) for security reasons, and there is frankly no difference.

Balaclavas aren't banned, I can go down to my local camping store and buy one today. I don't know about the situation in France but these items are not covered by the ban there.

• motor cycle helmets
• face masks for health reasons
• sports masks at sports events
• sunglasses which do not cover the face (never seen any that do!)
• traditional masks for theatre and carnival type activities

Unfortunately the French have gotten themselves into such a twist over this, far easier to have focussed on education and awareness - only 2000 women actually wear the niquab or similar and I think this is going to make it more popular to wear one.

 

[Mira]

What's amazing is that I've been living in France for the past 22 years and thus far I have only come across 2 women wearing a nikab. They were Saudi tourists strolling down the Champs Elysees boulevard with their families.

 

[Mira]

Unauthorized protest... I guess they really hate free speech over there... On a side note, who said these women in veils were submissive and passive. I love that they are protesting, and risking arrest for it...

How on earth did you reach that conclusion ? There are protests here almost every week.

In any democratic country one needs to ask for authorisation for any public event, even concerts or street entertainment as long as the event does not threaten the security of the residents.

Even in cases of controversial demonstrations or events, the city allows them but provides police protection which it does anyway in order to protect the protestors and passer-bys.

Hope this cleared it out for you.

 

[PeteEU]

If you choose to wear one then you should have the right as long as you are not harming or inciting violence against another. That includes pointy white hoods.

Problem is out of the 2000 in France, how many actually choose to wear it? And no just because they say the choose does not mean that they have not been brainwashed or threatened by peer pressure to do so. As for wearing a white hood.. yea it is legal in Europe and in fact part of Christian tradition in parts of Spain but it shows the same distain for human life and freedom if worn in the US.

Balaclavas aren't banned

,

Nope, but neither are Burkas.

I can go down to my local camping store and buy one today. I don't know about the situation in France but these items are not covered by the ban there.

• motor cycle helmets
• face masks for health reasons
• sports masks at sports events
• sunglasses which do not cover the face (never seen any that do!)
• traditional masks for theatre and carnival type activities

yes, and that is pretty much what other countries including the UK use as a guideline. If you wear a balaclava during a demonstration in the UK, chances are the police will want to have a word with you. If you wear it on Oxford street during summer, chances are the police will stop you.

Unfortunately the French have gotten themselves into such a twist over this, far easier to have focussed on education and awareness - only 2000 women actually wear the niquab or similar and I think this is going to make it more popular to wear one.

That is another matter, as I stated.. I believe that laws on the books already could have applied to burkas, and what Sarkozy is doing is more to do with politics than anything else. But that does not change my view one bit that banning the Burka to save Muslim women from oppression is warranted. I lived among muslim women for 15 years who were forced indirectly to wear the damn thing.. because it was tradition in the family, because their mother and mother-in-law told them too and because it was expected by the male members of the family. The burka is and always will be a symbol of active suppression of millions of millions of women world wide and anything we can do to help them is a good thing to do.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Problem is out of the 2000 in France, how many actually choose to wear it? And no just because they say the choose does not mean that they have not been brainwashed or threatened by peer pressure to do so.

That may well be true but it's far better to work on those cases than to spend countless politician and police hours coming up with and enforcing a ban which is only likely to make more women wear one. I'm waiting for the first politically astute fashion designer to design something for the Paris catwalks and reap all the publicity that will ensue. If I worked in fashion - I would be busy designing something right now in protest.

-- As for wearing a white hood.. yea it is legal in Europe and in fact part of Christian tradition in parts of Spain but it shows the same distain for human life and freedom if worn in the US

Are you confusing the Capirote as worn by Nazareno priests with the white conical hat of the KKK?

-- Nope, but neither are Burkas

So what are you arguing should be banned again?

-- yes, and that is pretty much what other countries including the UK use as a guideline. If you wear a balaclava during a demonstration in the UK, chances are the police will want to have a word with you. If you wear it on Oxford street during summer, chances are the police will stop you.

No, the recent black flag and black bloc protestors who took all the press coverage when the recent anti-govt protests were held in London were mostly wearing balaclavas and hoodies. They were only arrested once they started causing violence and trouble.

-- I lived among muslim women for 15 years who were forced indirectly to wear the damn thing.. because it was tradition in the family, because their mother and mother-in-law told them too and because it was expected by the male members of the family. The burka is and always will be a symbol of active suppression of millions of millions of women world wide and anything we can do to help them is a good thing to do.

That was the ME, this is Europe and France - the ban is counter-productive. There were similar protests in muslim countries when similar bans were tried and headscarves etc became more popular among women who didn't like being told what they could and couldn't wear.

 

[Mira]

That may well be true but it's far better to work on those cases than to spend countless politician and police hours coming up with and enforcing a ban which is only likely to make more women wear one. I'm waiting for the first politically astute fashion designer to design something for the Paris catwalks and reap all the publicity that will ensue. If I worked in fashion - I would be busy designing something right now in protest.

It's already been done in a way :lol:
Video: French women cause a stir in niqab and hot pants in anti-burka ban protest - Telegraph

French speakers here will love the lyrics of the song :3oops:

 

[Infinite Chaos]

It's already been done in a way --

At one stage in the film, the two women approach the entrance to the ministry of immigration and national identity, only to be told by a policeman to go elsewhere. However, a policewoman also present is delighted by their clothes. “I love your outfit, is it to do with the new law?” she asks. “Yes, we want to de-dramatise the situation,” one girl replies. “It’s brilliant. Can I take a photo?” asks the policewoman, who will soon be required to fine public niqab wearers.

The two girls are communications and political science students - after all the publicity here, I think they will have long and successful careers.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

Just to be clear, the women were not arrested for wearing veils but for joining an un-authorised protest.

That said, I still have strong reservations about the principles of liberty that the French are misguidedly trying to protect here - you cannot enshrine liberty by restricting it - it's just not possible.
The ban in schools is perfectly fine - but in public and for ordinary members of the public this is just wrong.

The only legitimate argument against full cover hajibs is that ones identity is completely concealed and others have used them to commit crime and get away with it because they can't be identified. So why don't they just come ot a compromise - to advert banning they should propose alternatives. Government ok'd Hajibs - various forms of external identification or whatever.

If safety-measure alternatives are offered - and then rebuked by the faithful - then the only option would be a ban without everyone looking like a dick.

 

[DrunkenAsparagus]

Give it time.. you are after all pating 6 year olds down in airports these days.

When did I start working for the TSA? Just because the government is becoming overly security-conscious, does not make me think that it's a good idea.

But no, if the mask wearing is in conjunction with an event where it is normal, then you wont get arrested.. but you try walking down a major US city during the summer in a full face hood during the day and see how far you get...

Unless I walked into a bank or was doing something suspicious, probably nothing.

They only remotely feel closer to god because men told them so. The Burka has nothing to do with religion.. it is like saying that mutilating female genitals is religious..

How the hell do you know? Since when do you speak for every burqa-wearer? God forbid they lack our western sensibilities on everything. Really Pete, other people do stranger things to feel close to God. They're things that are far more self-debasing, strenuous, and resource intensive than wearing a hot piece of cloth.

10 Weird Religious Practices

Nothing is preventing them from wearing it at home or in the Mosque.

Their rights are still restricted.

Of course it will. Having laws that help these women will always help them.. what is next, not having shelters for battered women? Not making it a crime for men to beat the **** out of women?

Physical assault is far different than choosing to wear a piece of cloth.

That is not the law in the US.. your personal feelings (which in principle I agree with) means nothing.

Um, ok... but the whole point of a forum is to discuss your opinions. It does not matter if the government agrees with me or not. That does nothing to my argument.

Burqas harm others as well.

As does the Burka.

How?

Yes some women voluntarily accept being beaten by men, does that mean we should not make it illegal to do so? Some women agree to be married off to cousins because their father says so, so we should not ban forced marriages? Sorry but society is here to among other things, protect the weakest in society from the abuses of others... a burka is abuse pure and simple.

Making a difficult choice is different than having no choice. If a person is forced to take beatings or marry someone against their will, that is illegal, but the choice to wear a burqa or not is the woman's and her's alone, not her family's and not the government's.

 

[kaya'08]

Obviously the flip side to this argument is the fact that some women WANT to cover there bodies, they want to be told that they cannot take it off, they want to be told that they must wear it even though there male counterparts do not. To me its irrelevant, it makes it no more acceptable.

Everywhere you look our laws are a direct interpretation of our culture; from polygamy to second amendment rights (or a lack thereof), from certain drug use and rituals, religious traditions and cultures have always been manipulated in line with local culture, and thus, cultural interpretations of what is and isnt moral. Polygamy is allowed by Islam, is it allowed by law? No. Sikhs have a religious duty to carry weapons. Are they allowed? No. Are the rastafari allowed to obtain weed? No. Gender descrimination is something that has its roots set deep in European society, something that many millions of woman fought to end. If the French believe it is immoral, undesirable to there culture, then who are we to say otherwise? It's there culture, they have a right to preserve it, we should respect their decision.

The niqab wearers are only 2000 strong. Last i checked, in Democracies, the majority rule by mandate.

 

[Arcana XV]

It's already been done in a way :lol:
Video: French women cause a stir in niqab and hot pants in anti-burka ban protest - Telegraph

French speakers here will love the lyrics of the song :3oops:

Mi-pute, Mi-soumise! :lol: Love it!

And, yeah those lyrics are quite...creative, aren't they? :lol: