Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

[Excon]

Honestly, I haven't been captivated by a topic like this here in months.

I'm having a blast!

:thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

My time for pure speculation.

I am having questions about the girlfriend's statements and the time-line.

I heard somewhere that the call between her and Trayvon lasted about 5 minutes.
Her call log reflects the call starting at 7:12.

If it lasted 5 minutes it ended at 7:17.

The following news report, although wrong about where Trayvon ended up laying, is reporting specifically about the information released by the attorney about the call the girlfriend had with Trayvon before his demise.


A minute later - a minute after the phone went dead.

This would make it a 4 minute or possibly shorter call.

Making her call end somewhere between 7:16 and 7:17.

Here is the discrepancy with this info.

The officers were dispatched to the scene at approximately 7:17. This is while the dispatcher was still on the phone with Zimmerman.

If these are accurate reflections, then her call was over before any confrontation occurred.

I hope she isn't making something up to make Zimmerman look guilty, because she is going to get caught.

There is no discrepancy ... the police said there was about only 1 minute unaccounted for where there were no witnesses. That would account for about a minute or less where their fight began and witnesses saw them fighting, just before Zimmerman shot Trayvon.

 

[Excon]

I find it to be unbelievable that people are just flatly willing to take Zimmerman's word for Gospel. When is it EVER the case that we expect a known killer to be 100% perfectly honest about his/her actions?

I know that this makes up a big part of the evidence, but why do people just assume it is fact?

There is no reason not to believe his account of what happened. Because it is consistent with the other known evidence.

 

[Excon]

Yes, the known evidence is that a stranger was following Trayvon in the dark in his car. When Trayvon took off running to get away from him, that stranger got out of his car in the rain and went after him for no apparent reason. When they got close enough to each other for Trayvon to ask the stranger was following him, the stranger reached for something, possibly a gun, for all Trayvon knew.

Trayvon, by the Florida statute on self defense I posted, was well within his right to strike first out of self defense.

Desperate. Trayvon approached him from the rear left.

"You Got a Problem?" "Well, Now You Do."
Is not indicative of defending one's self, but an attack.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Yet that article is indicating that it ended just one minute before 7:17. 7:17 being when Zimmerman was still on the horn with the dispatcher.
If that is an accurate report of her call ending time. She didn't hear anything between Trayvon and Zimmerman.

That is what I am inquiring about that time-line.

Where do we know the time stamp on Z's PD call from?

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Desperate. Trayvon approached him from the rear left.

"You Got a Problem?" "Well, Now You Do."
Is not indicative of defending one's self, but an attack.

That's not what the girlfriend said.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Yet that article is indicating that it ended just one minute before 7:17. 7:17 being when Zimmerman was still on the horn with the dispatcher.
If that is an accurate report of her call ending time. She didn't hear anything between Trayvon and Zimmerman.

That is what I am inquiring about that time-line.

It doesn't work. The Police report has a time of arrival of 19:17
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report.pdf
and the PD phone records show Z still being on the phone @ 19:20
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/911CallHistory.pdf

We don't have enough accuracy to time things across the reports yet.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

I find it to be unbelievable that people are just flatly willing to take Zimmerman's word for Gospel. When is it EVER the case that we expect a known killer to be 100% perfectly honest about his/her actions?

I know that this makes up a big part of the evidence, but why do people just assume it is fact?

Yeah, someone told me yesterday that I HAVE to believe Zimmerman - have to. What? That's crazy.

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

here's and interesting reconstruction of the police report events

A different look at the Trayvon Martin case « The Crawdad Hole

:shrug:

Another thing which hasn't been revealed yet is how close they were when Trayvon was shot. If Travon was not on top of Zimmerman when the shot was fired, but standing a few feet away, there can be no excuse for deadly force on Zimmerman's part. And there's been no mention of Travon's blood on Zimmerman, which would be likely had Trayvon been on top of Zimmerman when the shot was fired.

 

[Excon]

There is no discrepancy ... the police said there was about only 1 minute unaccounted for where there were no witnesses. That would account for about a minute or less where their fight began and witnesses saw them fighting, just before Zimmerman shot Trayvon.

You really aren't following.

Her call, as reported in the article, ended one minute before 7:17. So it ended at 7:16.
Zimmerman was still talking with the dispatcher at 7:17.

That would mean the girlfriend did not hear any confrontation between Trayvon and Zimmerman because the call ended before any contact was made. She didn't hear any exchange of words then, no exchange. Only what happened before.
Making her statements false, and most likely lies.

That is if the article has accurately reported the times.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

It doesn't work. The Police report has a time of arrival of 19:17
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report.pdf
and the PD phone records show Z still being on the phone @ 19:20
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/911CallHistory.pdf

We don't have enough accuracy to time things across the reports yet.

NVM

The phone call with Z and the PD is logged @ 19:11 - 19:13. It seems to log the operators notes rather than the actual call itself.
So it doesn't give us exact times of the start and doesn't mention the end of the call

 

[Simon W. Moon]

You really aren't following.

Her call, as reported in the article, ended one minute before 7:17. So it ended at 7:16.
Zimmerman was still talking with the dispatcher at 7:17.

That would mean the girlfriend did not hear any confrontation between Trayvon and Zimmerman because the call ended before any contact was made. She didn't hear any exchange of words then, no exchange. Only what happened before.
Making her statements false, and most likely lies.

That is if the article has accurately reported the times.

Z's call started sometime prior to 19:11:12 when snoffke makes a note in the system and lasts approximately 4 minutes

so sometime around 19:15

 

[Excon]

It doesn't work. The Police report has a time of arrival of 19:17
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report.pdf

Actually that is the dispatch time, so it does work.

Report Date: 2/27/2012 3:29 Reporter: S25894 Smith, Timothy
On 2/26/2012, at approximately 1917 hours, I responded to 1111 Retreat View Cir in refference to a report of a suspicious person. As I arrived on scene, dispatch advised of a report of shots fired in the same subdivision.


Report Date: 2/27/2012 2:28 Reporter: A49160 AYALA, RICARDO
On 2/26/2012, at approximately 1917 hours, I was dispatched to 1111 Retreat View Cir in refference to a complainant seeing a suspicious person in the area. While en route dispatch stated the they were recieving calls in referrence to gun shots being heard in the area where I was responding to.

Ofc.T. Smith stated via radio that he was arriving in thearea. later states that there was one subject shot and he had one at gun point.

and the PD phone records show Z still being on the phone @ 19:20
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/911CallHistory.pdf
We don't have enough accuracy to time things across the reports yet.

But her call, if accurately being reported, ended at 7:16 when Zimmerman was still on the horn with dispatch.
Making it impossible for her to eye-witnessed any words between the two.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

19:11 Z calls PD
19:11 snoffke starts making notes in the log about the call
19:13 "****! He's running"
19:13 "Okay, we don't need you to do that"
19:14 "Where're you gonna meet with them, at?
19:15 "Ill let them know to call you when they're in the area."
19:16 M and Z meet and girl loses phone contact w/ M
19:17 Officer Tim Smith arrives

 

[What if...?]

Yet that article is indicating that it ended just one minute before 7:17. 7:17 being when Zimmerman was still on the horn with the dispatcher.
If that is an accurate report of her call ending time. She didn't hear anything between Trayvon and Zimmerman.

That is what I am inquiring about that time-line.

Where are you getting the 7:17 time from?

From the report that's about the time the first officer arrived at the scene.

From what I've seen she says it was about five minutes. There's a record somewhere.

I posted a timeline that showed Zims 911 call ending at 19:15:15.

If it was five minutes it puts the time past the shooting, evidently.

But people don't judge time well under stress." About five minutes" could be three minutes or seven minutes of "real" time.

I'm not sure her time estimate damages her veracity, necessarily, in other words.

There's a record of the length of call and the start and end times. Cell phone companies keep track o'dat stuff.

If the call overlaps the time of the shooting (between 7:15 and 7:17 as best I can tell) SHES got some 'splaining to do, as she should have heard the gunshot, etc.

We'll see. If something shows up I'll PM you.

 

[Excon]

Z's call started sometime prior to 19:11:12 when snoffke makes a note in the system and lasts approximately 4 minutes

so sometime around 19:15

In the audio of his call to the dispatcher, we hear the dispatcher tell him they are their way, indicating previously dispatched unit.

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Yet that article is indicating that it ended just one minute before 7:17. 7:17 being when Zimmerman was still on the horn with the dispatcher.
If that is an accurate report of her call ending time. She didn't hear anything between Trayvon and Zimmerman.

That is what I am inquiring about that time-line.

Umm, the article's time line is off. It reads that police arrived at 7:17, about a minute after she got disconnected. But really, the police didn't get dispatched until 7:17. Her call still could have ended about a minute before police arrived, meaning she was on the phone with Trayvon at least 5 minutes.

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Desperate. Trayvon approached him from the rear left.

"You Got a Problem?" "Well, Now You Do."
Is not indicative of defending one's self, but an attack.

That's his story.

Thre's a witness who contradicts him.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

In the audio of his call to the dispatcher, we hear the dispatcher tell him they are their way, indicating previously dispatched unit.

The call only lasts 4 minutes and had to have started before snoffke makes his note in the system about the call. So he can't be on the phone any later than somewhere in the minute of 19:15, sometime before 19:16.

 

[Excon]

19:11 Z calls PD
19:11 snoffke starts making notes in the log about the call
19:13 "****! He's running"
19:13 "Okay, we don't need you to do that"
19:14 "Where're you gonna meet with them, at?
19:15 "Ill let them know to call you when they're in the area."
19:16 M and Z meet and girl loses phone contact w/ M
19:17 Officer Tim Smith arrives

19:17 Police report indicates dispatched at that time, not arrival.

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

You really aren't following.

Her call, as reported in the article, ended one minute before 7:17. So it ended at 7:16.
Zimmerman was still talking with the dispatcher at 7:17.

That would mean the girlfriend did not hear any confrontation between Trayvon and Zimmerman because the call ended before any contact was made. She didn't hear any exchange of words then, no exchange. Only what happened before.
Making her statements false, and most likely lies.

That is if the article has accurately reported the times.

Not only is the article wrong, but you know it's wrong as you yourself stated that the police were dispatched at 7:17, so why are you using an article's timeline you know is wrong as gospel?

Now you're being disingenuous.

 

[Excon]

The call only lasts 4 minutes and had to have started before snoffke makes his note in the system about the call. So he can't be on the phone any later than somewhere in the minute of 19:15, sometime before 19:16.

Her call to Trayvon, not his call to dispatch.

 

[Excon]

That's his story.

Thre's a witness who contradicts him.

No there isn't and I am not going to continue this with you until I got the time-line thing figured out.

This following crap you said is false.

Not only is the article wrong, but you know it's wrong as you yourself stated that the police were dispatched at 7:17, so why are you using an article's timeline you know is wrong as gospel?

Now you're being disingenuous.

I do not know that the article is inaccurate about the time her call lasted. So stop making things up.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Umm, the article's time line is off. It reads that police arrived at 7:17, about a minute after she got disconnected. But really, the police didn't get dispatched until 7:17. Her call still could have ended about a minute before police arrived, meaning she was on the phone with Trayvon at least 5 minutes.

Ayala says, "On 2/26/2012, at approximately 19:17 hours, I was dispatch [sic]"

But the Smith says that he "responded" @ approximately19:17. Ayala found Smith at the scene

 

[Simon W. Moon]

19:17 Police report indicates dispatched at that time, not arrival.

Smith indicates his arrival time in the report.