Without the right of the people to keep and bear arms, how are they supposed to protect themselves?

[Moon]

What is way too much firepower to just stop a burglar in your house.

Can you be more specific?

 

[ttwtt78640]

What is way too much firepower to just stop a burglar in your house.

OK, then why do such “reasonable restriction” laws have exceptions for LEO’s?

 

[mrjurrs]

It’s better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it. Of course, owning a potentially deadly weapon (or tool) comes with the responsibility of its owner to take care that it does not pose an unreasonable hazard (risk?) to others.

Why? When you carry a hammer, some think everything looks like a nail. Do you deny the fact that if you have a gun in your home you are more likely to die from gun violence?

 

[ataraxia]

Can you be more specific?

No- I think that's pretty specific. In most cases, that is a small handgun.

For people who live in places like rural Alaska and worry about bears walking into their kitchen for a snack, exceptions can be made.

 

[ataraxia]

OK, then why do such “reasonable restriction” laws have exceptions for LEO’s?

What are LEOs?

 

[ataraxia]

It’s better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it. Of course, owning a potentially deadly weapon (or tool) comes with the responsibility of its owner to take care that it does not pose an unreasonable hazard (risk?) to others.

All potentially dangerous tools and equipment have numerous restrictions on their manufacture, sale, and use.

Not sure why we think NOT having them on this particular class of potentially dangerous equipment is any different and will make us safer.

 

[mrjurrs]

Which is why statisticians came up with a neat little trick called "per capita."

"Meanwhile, 5 percent of the counties, which made up nearly half the population, accounted for more than two-thirds of murders in the country, with the highest numbers concentrated in areas around major cities like Chicago and Baltimore."

2/3rds of all murders are concentrated in these urban areas despite them making up less than half the population. They have a higher per capita murder rate than rural areas. And this gets even worse when you dig deeper into the data and the article you didnt read and find that looking at it on a per county basis isnt even accurate. Most of the murder in those cities is concentrated into a few small neighbordhoods with the rest of the city having murder rates on par w rural areas. If you did it not on county by county but neighborhood by neighborhood the per capita rate of these

There are tiny tiny geographically isolated neighborhoods which are singlehandedly responsible for Americas high murder rate and it makes absolutely no sense to claim that this problem is caused by the 95% of the country that isnt like that having access to guns.

CA per capita gun deaths 8.5 per 100,000
WY per capita gun deaths 25.9 per 100,000

You were saying?

Source your claims...

 

[ttwtt78640]

Why? When you carry a hammer, some think everything looks like a nail.

The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the free cheese.

Do you deny the fact that if you have a gun in your home you are more likely to die from gun violence?

Nope, I accept that risk with full knowledge of its existence.

 

[Cameron]

When seconds count, police are minutes away.

And calmly and politely request your assailant pause their attack while they are en route.

Lock yourself in a bathroom. Of the great minority of people who have experienced home invasions, victims who avoid confrontation are much less likely to be injured than those who resist. Assuming you feel like resisting and have time to get to your firearm, you better be a good shot under stress, in close quarters, and likely in the dark, and hope that despite the proliferation of guns your attacker doesn't have one too. Guns are more likely to be found and used by your kids or to murder your spouse than to fend off a robber.

Hundreds of millions of people (70%) go about their daily lives in this country without owning a gun. I'm not totally against gun ownership in the home for self defense if we also have a registry to keep track of where all the weapons go, but this thread's premise "doh, how are people supposed to protect themselves?" is stupid.

 

[ttwtt78640]

What are LEOs?

Law enforcement officers (armed government agents).

 

[Ruby Wizard]

CA per capita gun deaths 8.5 per 100,000
WY per capita gun deaths 25.9 per 100,000

You were saying?

Source your claims...

Wyoming Murder/Homicide Rate 1979-2018

Interactive chart of the Wyoming murder rate (i.e. the number of homicides per 100,000 population) from 1979 to 2018.

www.macrotrends.net

The number you gave is 10X the actual per capita murder rate in WY

???

My source was the article you didnt read.

 

[ttwtt78640]

All potentially dangerous tools and equipment have numerous restrictions on their manufacture, sale, and use.

Not sure why we think NOT having them on this particular class of potentially dangerous equipment is any different and will make us safer.

We have plenty now - I am limited to possessing handguns, rifles and shotguns which can fire one round per trigger pull. The 2A is not a right to shoot (or shoot at) anyone.

 

[mrjurrs]

The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the free cheese.



Nope, I accept that risk with full knowledge of its existence.

Do you see why lot's of people are not comfortable with those that are willing to accept that risk? Those guns in homes kill family members for a reason.

 

[Moon]

No- I think that's pretty specific. In most cases, that is a small handgun.

For people who live in places like rural Alaska and worry about bears walking into their kitchen for a snack, exceptions can be made.

So people who have lost the full use of a hand or suffer from arthritis are out of luck in defending themselves in your world?

 

[Ruby Wizard]

Lock yourself in a bathroom. Of the great minority of people who have experienced home invasions, victims who avoid confrontation are much less likely to be injured than those who resist. Assuming you feel like resisting and have time to get to your firearm, you better be a good shot under stress, in close quarters, and likely in the dark, and hope that despite the proliferation of guns your attacker doesn't have one too. Guns are more likely to be found and used by your kids or to murder your spouse than to fend off a robber.

Hundreds of millions of people (70%) go about their daily lives in this country without owning a gun.

I love the contrast between "The Home Invader needs your sympathy" people and "if you attempt to defend yourself in a home invasion you will die, just roll over and beg for mercy." Two incompatible world views that meet in the middle and agree that I shouldnt be able to own a gun in case something like that happens.

 

[Mr Person]

My reasoning is very simple: Guns are the deadliest objects in the world. One stray bullet will instantly kill any living creature. They are only useful murder tools.

In 1790, every man and woman needed a gun. But the Second Amendment was badly written and would have been repealed decades ago if it was just a law, not in the Constitution. How everyone got the right to keep and bear arms was a huge mistake.

If you have enough money to buy a gun, you can afford a home security system like ADT and do not need one inside the house. Besides, you will probably be asleep anyway because break-ins happen at night, which makes firearms useless.

Neither the ADT or the police are going to get to you in time.

Now, I'm not saying I have a gun. I don't ... yet. But I probably will end up getting at least something to keep in a safe at home. Perhaps a shotgun - you don't have to aim as well.


But for now, my home defense would come down to hand to hand combat; I suppose I do keep a kabar in my room. And I do have an advantage: I always leave the lights off at night when I move around the house. I'm used to it. I know where everything is by touch and sound, even the creaky parts of each step. And I keep myself in immaculate physical condition.

That's all still a whole lot less reassuring than would be being able to point something in the general direction of an intruder and know that if I pull the trigger, they're hit. Basically, not having the gun seems like the bigger risk, since if I had it it'd be locked in a safe with something like an eight or nine-digit code.

 

[Ruby Wizard]

Do you see why lot's of people are not comfortable with those that are willing to accept that risk? Those guns in homes kill family members for a reason.

This reminds me so much of accounts of Alaskan Native tribes where it was believed if a woman even touched a weapon she would instantly die

 

[ttwtt78640]

Do you see why lot's of people are not comfortable with those that are willing to accept that risk? Those guns in homes kill family members for a reason.

It’s easy for you to avoid those risks - simply don’t have a gun in your home. My home, my choice.

 

[mrjurrs]

Wyoming Murder/Homicide Rate 1979-2018

Interactive chart of the Wyoming murder rate (i.e. the number of homicides per 100,000 population) from 1979 to 2018.

www.macrotrends.net

The number you gave is 10X the actual per capita murder rate in WY

???

My source was the article you didnt read.

My figures come from an actual data gathering organization. The difference is likely the difference between homicide rates and firearm deaths. I generally don't spend much time on a source when it comes from 2014.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Speaking only for myself, none of the options matched my rationale for not having one. I grew up around a lot of crime (a lot of it gun violence) and I found other ways of protecting myself that didn't involve owning a gun. My bias comes from seeing way too many people I knew either die or end up seriously injured when using their guns to "defend" themselves. Once someone pulls a gun out the whole level of that encounter changes, and when you have more than one person armed, it can get really dangerous for anyone near that conflict when bullets start flying. My choice for self defense was martial arts and the strategy of de-escalation, which was pretty effective for me when put into gnarly situations.

 

[Ruby Wizard]

My figures come from an actual data gathering organization. The difference is likely the difference between homicide rates and firearm deaths. I generally don't spend much time on a source when it comes from 2014.

Oh so youre using suicide rates to mislead people about actual homicide rates which is what I was talking about

 

[ttwtt78640]

My figures come from an actual data gathering organization. The difference is likely the difference between homicide rates and firearm deaths. I generally don't spend much time on a source when it comes from 2014.

That’s because the majority of “gun deaths” are suicides, legitimate shootings in self-defense or accidents.

 

[mrjurrs]

It’s easy for you to avoid those risks - simply don’t have a gun in your home. My home, my choice.

I don't deny that, and I do avoid that risk. You, and all other gun owners, are asking me to assume risks that I shouldn't have to. Gun owners increase my personal risk of being killed or injured by a gun and I have no control over that risk.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Of course not. I keep my windows shut all the time and doors locked whenever possible. My area is very safe; I am probably the only person under age 60.

So never mind the poor souls who do not live in safe neighborhoods? They do not matter?

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Lock yourself in a bathroom. Of the great minority of people who have experienced home invasions, victims who avoid confrontation are much less likely to be injured than those who resist.

That's a plan, I guess, but only if they aren't there for you.