Withdrawl of troops from Syria -- do you agree with the decision?

[tecoyah]

We won't be able to do sh** though. Just sit back and watch the tragedy unfold. Hey maybe Trump will fire millions of dollars worth of tomahawk missiles at them after he warns them like he did once before.

Oh....The Middle East now belongs to Russia, Iran, ISIS and Turkey with a dash of Saudi for flavor....as it should be. I just hope they can somehow contain it to that God forsaken area and keep the worst from walking to Europe and the U.S.

 

[tecoyah]

ME terrorism will be returning to the US. If you think about it, an excellent new talking point for Trump's pet project ... the Wall.

What Congressman could refuse with mass terrorism casualties? Perhaps there is a Machiavellian method behind his madness.

I certainly hope you are wrong, fortunately Uncle Donny aint gots da smarts ta go thankin' liken dat.

 

[ecofarm]

I'm talking about the 90's, Bush Senior and Clinton.

Kenya put boots on the ground in 2011 with unexpected success.

 

[Jetboogieman]

Kenya put boots on the ground in 2011 with unexpected success.

What we were discussing, was has the US ever invaded country for purely humanitarian reasons, toppled a regime on those grounds.

The only example that comes to mind is Somalia 1990s... but that doesn’t really count as there was no government at the time, it had collapsed.

And the primary country that laid the foundations for the current situation in Somalia was Ethiopia, that invaded in the late 2000’s, not Kenya, Turkey has been a pretty big force for change in Somalia as late as well.

The US has aided and abetted dictators that have committed all sorts of human rights abuses when it was convenient and it certainly didn’t invade Iraq over human rights abuses in 2003.

 

[antiquity]

No because didn’t we just saw this in the Obama administration? I hate to be the person to put it in this way. Once we enter into a havoc country we will never get out

Did you know we still have a troop obligation in Kosovo and some military stationed in Bosnia...that dates back to the 90's Clinton years? Does 50's Korea ring any bells? How about 40's Germany? Japan?

 

[antiquity]

What we were discussing, was has the US ever invaded country for purely humanitarian reasons, toppled a regime on those grounds.

The only example that comes to mind is Somalia 1990s... but that doesn’t really count as there was no government at the time, it had collapsed.

And the primary country that laid the foundations for the current situation in Somalia was Ethiopia, that invaded in the late 2000’s, not Kenya, Turkey has been a pretty big force for change in Somalia as late as well.

The US has aided and abetted dictators that have committed all sorts of human rights abuses when it was convenient and it certainly didn’t invade Iraq over human rights abuses in 2003.

Clinton's intervening in the civil war in both Bosnia and Kosovo come to mind.

 

[Bodi]

.... or maybe the allies are displaying wisdom.

We will see what good they are if we stopped protecting their asses...

 

[ecofarm]

What we were discussing, was has the US ever invaded country for purely humanitarian reasons, toppled a regime on those grounds.

So now we're gonna set the standard at "purely humanitarian", ignore two decades of atrocities and pretend Saddam faking a WMD program didn't fool every single country in the world.

Seems unreasonable, kinda agenda driven.

 

[Sweden]

We will see what good they are if we stopped protecting their asses...

Well, yes. But what has that got to do with having troops in Syria?

 

[Bodi]

Well, yes. But what has that got to do with having troops in Syria?

We are bringing our troops home for good reason...

 

[Mr Person]

We broke it, we bought it. And we owe the Kurds deeply at this point, both those in Iraq and those in Syria.

We shouldn't have been there in the first place, but that's no reason to betray them to their deaths at the hands of a dictator for who Trump is doing the ugliest of favors. We should have seen it out. Now, not only do we act utterly immorally, but we also ensure that they have no reason to help us in the future. If history is any guide, we definitely have a future in the Middle East.





Naturally, tons of people are pretending that the question of whether to see Syria through is comparable to the decision to invade Iraq, or the decision of Obama to honor the agreement Bush entered to withdraw on a schedule, just so they can attack "the left".

So pathetically typical.

 

[Myview]

The USA has to do everything of the "Allies" won't trust us... sounds like the "Allies" are a bunch of ****ing panzies...

The US has to do everything? What do you think the coalition is in Syria to do? Nothing? Ask General Mattis, he believes America's relationship with allies is important. I suppose Trump will need to abandon Generals because they all think the same about allies. That they are important. The next Defense Secretary will be some politicion Trump yes man.

 

[Jetboogieman]

So now we're gonna set the standard at "purely humanitarian", ignore two decades of atrocities and pretend Saddam faking a WMD program didn't fool every single country in the world.

Seems unreasonable, kinda agenda driven.

Who ignored what he did?

I am well aware of how evil his regime was and his sick especially Uday was... But the US did not invade Iraq for any of those reasons in 2003.

 

[ecofarm]

Who ignored what he did?

I am well aware of how evil his regime was and his sick especially Uday was... But the US did not invade Iraq for any of those reasons in 2003.

There were many reasons, the last of which was Saddam faking (and fooling every intel agency in the world) a wmd program to dissuade Iran.

 

[concernedpuma]

There were many reasons, the last of which was Saddam faking (and fooling every intel agency in the world) a wmd program to dissuade Iran.

You are right. Saddam wasn't as bright as he thought he was and the result was an invasion in that area of the world that remains an open sore. I am convinced there is no victory to be had in the mid-east. Let Iran and Russia bleed a while.
Regards,
CP

 

[Bodi]

The US has to do everything? What do you think the coalition is in Syria to do? Nothing? Ask General Mattis, he believes America's relationship with allies is important. I suppose Trump will need to abandon Generals because they all think the same about allies. That they are important. The next Defense Secretary will be some politicion Trump yes man.

Why shouldn't the USA have to do everything?

 

[Myview]

Why shouldn't the USA have to do everything?

Trump is isolationist in his military policy. Traditionally the US leads either unilaterally or as part of a coalition. The US hasn't had to do everything unless it wants to. Britain, France, and Turkey were coalition partners in Syria.

 

[Bodi]

Trump is isolationist in his military policy. Traditionally the US leads either unilaterally or as part of a coalition. The US hasn't had to do everything unless it wants to. Britain, France, and Turkey were coalition partners in Syria.

Correct...

 

[Integrityrespec]

We are in a country that doesn't want us without a declaration of war by the Congress.

 

[antiquity]

We are in a country that doesn't want us without a declaration of war by the Congress.

Declaration of war against who?

Today the Iraqi government is on the verge of voting to out the American military out of Iraq.....I say its time to leave Iraq and let them get on with either a sink or swim and if Iran/Russia wants it so what?..we have shed enough blood there for absolutely no gain. I also say we should arm the Kurds to the teeth thru the back door whether the Iraqi government likes it or not. Let the Kurds finish off ISSI.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/27/world/middleeast/trump-iraq-visit.html

 

[Tangmo]

Admiral (Ret.) James Stavridis was NATO supreme allied commander and before that Adm. Stavridis commanded Nato forces in Afghanistan. He is dean of the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts University, Boston. This is what he said on NPR...


This is a great Christmas present to Vladimir Putin. And you know what's ironic is that it's not that big a troop deployment. This is - we're only talking about 2,000 or 3,000 troops. Let's recall at the height of, for example, Afghanistan, where I commanded that mission as the NATO commander, I had 150,000 troops there. In Iraq, we had 180,000 troops. Here, we're talking about 2,000 to 3,000 troops.

And just to put that in perspective on our southern border with Mexico, facing an imaginary opponent, we've got 6,000 troops deployed to that border right now. So this is penny-wise and pound-foolish to get out of this situation.

The U.S. is really needed. And if we just walk away, the Russians, A, don't have the capability to really finish that job. And, B, even if they did what we would effectively be doing is ceding all of Syria to not only Russia, but to their allies, the Iranians. That puts Israel at risk. That puts our Gulf allies at risk. That emboldens further terrorist attacks state-sponsored by Hezbollah, by Iran.

So it's a complex game here. And to take that simple, easy and wrong path of just walking away is a mistake.

There are zero people in the military telling him to do this, and I say that not only putting on my hat as a former four-star leader, but also just conversations I'm having broadly with my peers and contemporaries who are still on active duty. There is no question that, militarily, this - no sense.

Trump Says ISIS Is Defeated So U.S. Troops Will Leave Syria | Public Radio East


Trump would be hard pressed to find a general or admiral who agrees with him. Or even a colonel who thinks this is wise or good for the United States. Pentagon knows Trump is an incompetent Potus and now sees Trump as a CinC who is dangerous to US national security and global stability.

Pentagon chiefs and theater commanders around the globe see Trump being hostile toward US allies and chums with dictators. Trump is this way while he ignores or dismisses the advice and presence of those in the US government who are in charge of implementing the defense of the United States. So it could seem Trump is working against 'em in almost everything. It's more than seems however. Trump is doing that exactly.

 

[Tangmo]

You are right. Saddam wasn't as bright as he thought he was and the result was an invasion in that area of the world that remains an open sore. I am convinced there is no victory to be had in the mid-east. Let Iran and Russia bleed a while.
Regards,
CP

The issue is who bleeds after Iran and Russia take control of the ME. And what of our allies in ME and in Europe. And after Kim Jong Un finishes bamboozling Trump out of South Korea. Allies' trust in the United States is collapsing. USA must have allies led by the White House or be at a great risk of itself collapsing externally and internally.

 

[Tangmo]

Declaration of war against who?

Today the Iraqi government is on the verge of voting to out the American military out of Iraq.....I say its time to leave Iraq and let them get on with either a sink or swim and if Iran/Russia wants it so what?..we have shed enough blood there for absolutely no gain. I also say we should arm the Kurds to the teeth thru the back door whether the Iraqi government likes it or not. Let the Kurds finish off ISSI.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/27/world/middleeast/trump-iraq-visit.html

Find a general or an admiral who agrees with all of that. Or any of it. Just one. Without going to Moscow of course.

 

[Cardinal]

Whether one agrees with this effort or not, our being in Syria maintains a manner of stability in the region as well as commitments we made to our allies, the people of Syria and the Kurds. If we should not be there for this purpose, then a better question for the thread is, "Should the decision to pull out of Syria be made by Trump?" Such a question demands whether Trump is best qualified to determine the motive, timing and manner of a pullout, a question that by this point answer itself.

Similar to this decision is, "Should a President visit the troops from time to time?" Well, yeah, of course. Recently demonstrated, however, is that Trump is clearly not the President that should be doing this. People have been railing against him for two years for his adamant refusal to visit the troops, but once he was finally shamed into doing so, we were shown just how bad an idea it was for him to finally do this.

 

[Rogue Valley]

The US military controlled almost 50% of Syria (everything east of the Euphrates River) with just 2,000 boots on the ground and our Kurd allies (kiss them goodbye).

And now Trump orders a cut-and-run operation. I think Putin and Assad are still doubled-over from laughing so hard.