Withdrawl of troops from Syria -- do you agree with the decision?

[antiquity]

I could support the Trump rapid withdrawal from Syria ..... but only in an information vacuum.

Regrettably, I realize Erdogan is going to slaughter as many Syrian Kurds as the world will allow him to get away with.

US military personal in the region I have spoken to despise Donald Trump for this betrayal.

I seriously doubt withdrawing of about 2000 US troops will have much impact on Turkey plans one way or the other.

 

[ecofarm]

It's a fair point to be sure, and I can eat a decent size concrete mixer full of humble pie because of it.

But at the same time, did the United States invade Iraq on humanitarian grounds?

Has it ever?

It certainly didn't invade Iraq over the gassing of kurds.

Saddam was in violation of 18 UNSCRs, including firing on coalition aircraft enforcing a no fly zone to prevent genocide. 200,000 Kurds. 50,000 Marsh Arabs. Institutionalized rape. Government rape squads lead by Saddam's sons. Mass graves covering the country. A complete lack of legitimate social structure. Such is the work of a genocidal dictator.

When are you going to invade North Korea or Burundi then?

You understand we have limited resources, right? We need to set priorities according to global damage, risk, capability, allies and a million other factors. Then we decide where to spend the blood and treasure we can afford.

It would be great if we could liberate the world all at once, but you surely understand why we cannot, and it's not because we don't care.

Somalia would be an exception I could think of, but at the time, it wasn't really a country as it had no government.

Al Shabab was the government of Somalia. It is now a fledgling democracy.

On the other hand, an extra-national terrorist group trying to take over the entire region, that's something a little different.

Different, yes. A variety of monster.

 

[Mycroft]

I find it strange that liberals who were against our 'invasion' in the middle east now somehow think this Trump order to withdraw is a bad decision? I think if Trump wants something no matter what, it must be bad.
Where were the left when Obama ordered our draw down of troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan?

The liberals were never against war in the middle east.

On August 23, 2018, The US Senate voted for a $675 billion appropriations bill to fund the unlimited war projects.

The warhawk Democrats carried the majority.

The vote was 85-7 led by Democrat Senators.

44 Democrats voted for the bill.
41 Republicans voted for the bill.
0 Democrats voted against the bill.
6 Republicans voted against the bill.
1 Socialist Bernie Sanders voted against the bill.
3 Democrats did not vote.
5 Republicans did not vote.


These SAME DEMOCRATS voted 47-1 on Friday to block funding of border security in the latest spending bill.

These same Democrats attacked President Trump for withdrawing US troops from Syria — after their mission was accomplished.

It appears we have a new party of warmongers!

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...-one-voted-to-secure-border-think-about-that/

 

[Risky Thicket]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-mi...ts-forces-from-northeastern-syria-11545225641

WASHINGTON—President Trump ordered a rapid withdrawal of all U.S. military forces from Syria, officials said Wednesday, marking an abrupt shift of the U.S.’s posture in the Middle East....

Please vote and explain your vote if you wish.

I’d like to see the US leave Syria but not this moment and certainly not the moronic way Trump is doing it. Trump has no concept of actions and consequences. None. He has no concept of international relations. Well, we could go on but suffice to say that Donald Trump is inept and unfit to be the president let alone the CIC.

 

[TheRepublican]

No because didn’t we just saw this in the Obama administration? I hate to be the person to put it in this way. Once we enter into a havoc country we will never get out

 

[joko104]

Our involvement is why this war in Syria has lasted as long as it did - more of the perpetuation of the Cold War with Russia - now for nearly 7 decades and trillions of dollars. Syria has been in the Russian sphere for over half a century and is Russia's only foreign base - while I doubt anyone on the forum can count how many the USA has in other countries around the world.

So now we listen to the Democrats rant for more war. Starting with the Civil War, WW1, WW2, Korea and Vietnam, probably upwards of 90%+ of American war casualties and war costs have been under Democratic Presidents. There is no war the Democratic Party does not want. War is very profitable to the global super rich, which is who the Democratic Party serves - then, now and likely forever. If $1 can be made off of war-deaths, the Democratic Party is for it.

 

[Mycroft]

I’d like to see the US leave Syria but not this moment and certainly not the moronic way Trump is doing it. Trump has no concept of actions and consequences. None. He has no concept of international relations. Well, we could go on but suffice to say that Donald Trump is inept and unfit to be the president let alone the CIC.

How should he do it?

 

[plutonium]

While I like the thought of disentangling ourselves from the whole region, the truth is the Kurds is Syria where a major supporter of our efforts against ISIS, spearheading the fighting and doing most of the dying. Abandoning them to their fate leaves a very sour taste in my mouth, and I think sends the wrong message to those who might want to help us in the future.

i agree 100 percent with you we have no credibility in the world and we have no one trusting us anymore..... cant blame them either....

 

[Mycroft]

Our involvement is why this war in Syria has lasted as long as it did - more of the perpetuation of the Cold War with Russia - now for nearly 7 decades and trillions of dollars. Syria has been in the Russian sphere for over half a century and is Russia's only foreign base - while I doubt anyone on the forum can count how many the USA has in other countries around the world.

So now we listen to the Democrats rant for more war. Starting with the Civil War, WW1, WW2, Korea and Vietnam, probably upwards of 90%+ of American war casualties and war costs have been under Democratic Presidents. There is no war the Democratic Party does not want. War is very profitable to the global super rich, which is who the Democratic Party serves - then, now and likely forever. If $1 can be made off of war-deaths, the Democratic Party is for it.

You can include the Republicans in this, as well.

 

[slick]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day so President Trump actually made the right decision on Syria, probably for all the wrong reasons. Sec. Def. Mattis is a wise man but also a warhawk and a militarist. That they profoundly disagree on this issue is no surprise. Leave Syria to Assad and his Russian allies. The Kurds are a people who have always gotten the short end of the stick in history and this is just the most recent collective screwing over they are enduring. Let the Turks, the Syrians, the Iranians, the Israelis and the Russians spill their own peoples' blood in order to play their never-ending geopolitical games. There is no reason that American men and women should die or be maimed in this historical crucible of betrayal and misery. Walk away.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Trump is spot on, the neo-con policies that got the US into this mess has to end!

Our inane strategy from the very beginning was to support the illusory “moderate Syrian opposition.” Those would be the same forces we
supported against Assad. The only problem was that there weren’t enough real moderates in Syria to mount a meaningful challenge to the
regime. The backbone of the opposition to Assad has always been sunni islamic fundamentalists, and the most effective fighters against
the regime have always been the jihadists. So we’re back to where we started from: Let’s pretend that there is a viable, moderate, democratic
Syrian opposition and that we have sufficient intelligence — in a place where we have sparse intelligence — to vet them so we arm only
the good guys; and then let’s arm them, knowing that they have seamlessly allied for years with the anti-American terrorists we are delegating
them to fight on our behalf. Perfect.

 

[Myview]

We had a relatively small number of troops there, about 2000. They were mostly there to support the coalition of allies fighting against ISIS. Trump is saying they were defeated. Our allies Britain and France say ISIS is not defeated. Turkey does not trust and attacks Syrian Kurds that they regard as an extension of the PKK, Syrian Kurds were effective in attacking ISIS. Now Turkey is free to attack the Kurds who feel betrayed by the US. Turkish troops are now massing to attack Kurdish held areas and towns in Syria. Our coalition allies are upset that we didn't consult with them before making the decision to withdraw. Trust in the US by Allies and especially the Kurds took a hit. ISIS could be emboldened now that the US is gone. I can support bringing most of our troops home. I cannot support adding to trust woes with allies and opening up Syrian Kurds to attacks by Turkey. Allies increasingly feel they cannot trust the US as a partner.

 

[Jetboogieman]

Saddam was in violation of 18 UNSCRs, including firing on coalition aircraft enforcing a no fly zone to prevent genocide. 200,000 Kurds. 50,000 Marsh Arabs. Institutionalized rape. Government rape squads lead by Saddam's sons. Mass graves covering the country. A complete lack of legitimate social structure. Such is the work of a genocidal dictator.

And the United States didn't invade Iraq for any of those things in 2003.

You understand we have limited resources, right? We need to set priorities according to global damage, risk, capability, allies and a million other factors. Then we decide where to spend the blood and treasure we can afford.

And it would seem Iraq wasn't one of those times it should have been done.

It would be great if we could liberate the world all at once, but you surely understand why we cannot, and it's not because we don't care.

"liberate" the world you say?

I think that's pretty lofty, America has no such interest in doing such a thing, it has often supported and abetted genocide and mass murder when it was convenient, in what it thought was the greater good.

Al Shabab was the government of Somalia. It is now a fledgling democracy.

I'm talking about the 90's, Bush Senior and Clinton.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I find it strange that liberals who were against our 'invasion' in the middle east now somehow think this Trump order to withdraw is a bad decision? I think if Trump wants something no matter what, it must be bad.
Where were the left when Obama ordered our draw down of troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan?

I'll take your statement at face value, that you're only here to annoy people. Quite a few liberals have admitted that they have mixed feelings, and one or two said that they supported Trump's decision although one said, "right move, for the wrong reasons".

But as you say, you're only here to annoy people.
Bye.

 

[Bodi]

We had a relatively small number of troops there, about 2000. They were mostly there to support the coalition of allies fighting against ISIS. Trump is saying they were defeated. Our allies Britain and France say ISIS is not defeated. Turkey does not trust and attacks Syrian Kurds that they regard as an extension of the PKK, Syrian Kurds were effective in attacking ISIS. Now Turkey is free to attack the Kurds who feel betrayed by the US. Turkish troops are now massing to attack Kurdish held areas and towns in Syria. Our coalition allies are upset that we didn't consult with them before making the decision to withdraw. Trust in the US by Allies and especially the Kurds took a hit. ISIS could be emboldened now that the US is gone. I can support bringing most of our troops home. I cannot support adding to trust woes with allies and opening up Syrian Kurds to attacks by Turkey. Allies increasingly feel they cannot trust the US as a partner.

The USA has to do everything of the "Allies" won't trust us... sounds like the "Allies" are a bunch of ****ing panzies...

 

[tecoyah]

Personally, I simply hope the brass is wrong and ISIS does not resurge...I am quite happy the U.S. is finally leaving those people to do what they have been doing to each other for thousands of years because we are not welcome and if you try to help one group you make enemies of another, a fools errand at best. It seems quite obvious no one there wants to get along with each other and death/destruction is their norm....I say get out and watch carefully for any step in my direction.

 

[Sweden]

Possibly a first -- I agree with you.

Trump thinks himself smarter than everyone else - including his generals. I don't see how this is the right decision in the war against ISIS.

Generals should be kept well away from policy making which in a democracy must be firmly under civilian control. Generals always choose the use of force option, hence disasters like Vietnam; the US should have learnt and remembered a very painful lesson.

 

[Sweden]

The USA has to do everything of the "Allies" won't trust us... sounds like the "Allies" are a bunch of ****ing panzies...

.... or maybe the allies are displaying wisdom.

 

[rickc]

i hated to say i agreed with Trump

but dick and jr.'s folly in Iraq started the destabilization of the middle east. i say get the hell out and let the chips fall where they may.

the only reason we have had an interest in the middle east was to protect our oil companies profits. whoever wins out will still sell the oil. and we don't need it so much any more.

getting out of Afghanistan is a good idea too.

with a little intelligence and some cruise missiles we can keep ISIS at bay.

 

[Rogue Valley]

I seriously doubt withdrawing of about 2000 US troops will have much impact on Turkey plans one way or the other.

Your doubts are erroneous.

The US blocking force located at Manbij northern Syria is all that is preventing Erdogan's armored columns form decimating the Kurdish homeland of Rojava.

US Steps Up Protection for Coalition Forces in Northern Syria’s Manbij

 

[Rogue Valley]

I say get out and watch carefully for any step in my direction.

They certainly won't telegraph their plans. We'll start seeing an upsurge in ISIS/AQ attacks on US soft targets.

The ranks of these groups will be rapidly swelling due to the propaganda bonanza Donnie has handed them.

 

[EnigmaO01]

Generals should be kept well away from policy making which in a democracy must be firmly under civilian control. Generals always choose the use of force option, hence disasters like Vietnam; the US should have learnt and remembered a very painful lesson.

I disagree. You might be surprised how many generals are restrained while civilian politicians that have never put on a uniform are gung ho. Eisenhower was one example of a restrained former general among many. Many times someone that has seen the bloodshed and futility of war is more restrained.

It's usually Ivy League presidents that get us into unwarranted conflicts like Vietnam.

“Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron.”
― Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

[EnigmaO01]

.... or maybe the allies are displaying wisdom.

Like when France knew better than to get involved in Iraq.

 

[tecoyah]

They certainly won't telegraph their plans. We'll start seeing an upsurge in ISIS/AQ attacks on US soft targets.

The ranks of these groups will be rapidly swelling due to the propaganda bonanza Donnie has handed them.

With any luck, our intelligence agencies still function so we will at least be able to notice what is happening. As it is Uncle Donny has degraded everything and ignores whatever they say, but hopefully SOMETHING still functions.

 

[EnigmaO01]

With any luck, our intelligence agencies still function so we will at least be able to notice what is happening. As it is Uncle Donny has degraded everything and ignores whatever they say, but hopefully SOMETHING still functions.

We won't be able to do sh** though. Just sit back and watch the tragedy unfold. Hey maybe Trump will fire millions of dollars worth of tomahawk missiles at them after he warns them like he did once before.

 

[Rogue Valley]

With any luck, our intelligence agencies still function so we will at least be able to notice what is happening. As it is Uncle Donny has degraded everything and ignores whatever they say, but hopefully SOMETHING still functions.

ME terrorism will be returning to the US. If you think about it, an excellent new talking point for Trump's pet project ... the Wall.

What Congressman could refuse with mass terrorism casualties? Perhaps there is a Machiavellian method behind his madness.