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With whom would you rather serve?

With whom would you rather serve?

  • A convicted criminal

    Votes: 2 7.4%

  • A gay person

    Votes: 19 70.4%

  • Neither

    Votes: 6 22.2%
  • Total voters
    27
Just a thought, but if separate showers were needed to prevent potential sexual attraction, wouldn't that mean that Gay folks would have to shower alone rather than in a group?

Sometimes I wonder whether all this fuss over showering is based upon the notion that Gay men migt be attracted or the worry that they wouldn't? Must be a real ego buster to be rejected and all.
 
Gardener said:
Just a thought, but if separate showers were needed to prevent potential sexual attraction, wouldn't that mean that Gay folks would have to shower alone rather than in a group?

Sometimes I wonder whether all this fuss over showering is based upon the notion that Gay men migt be attracted or the worry that they wouldn't? Must be a real ego buster to be rejected and all.
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LOL

Nobody has been able to answer why comfortable showering time is taking precendence over a physically fit and mentally capable military.

Instead we recruit dumber kids, and older out of shape men during thier mid-life crisis.
 
“Nobody has been able to tell me why we are placing a higher value on comfort during showers than on getting people who are mentally/physically capable to do the mission into our military.”
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Let me ask you this question, Caine? What do they say men think with?
There is your answer because ………this wouldn’t be a problem for woman. You’d be hard pressed to find a straight woman who found it threatening to have to take a shower with lesbians. I think straight men think if they shower with gays they just might like it and feel threatened.
I think the gay lifestyle is wrong, but that doesn’t change my opinion that any gay man or lesbian woman cant do an equally effective job as any straight man and woman .


“Instead we recruit dumber kids, and older out of shape men during thier mid-life crisis.”
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What is the age limit?


But I ask you…….our press/media bash the troops, and look at how views from our nation have changed about those serving in the millitary. They are not looked at the same as they were 5-10 years ago.
Why would any smart, young man/woman want to inlist only to be bashed by a large segment of our population ….ok I’m sayin it, left-wing liberals and democrats.
 
Calm2Chaos said:
Who said anything about placing a higher value on one then the other. Your just trying to act the fool and not see what other people are saying by fixating on examples. Your robot soldiers that have no complaints, tensions or problems with people, they always work at peak condition. Opps .. humans don't, why are you so UNworried about the differences people or soldiers may have.

Obvously you think anyone can finish a mission and there is no real team work needed. Everybody is a solo rambo and does not have to rely on anyone else.

My point is that maybe gays and straights should be handled the same way as staright woman and men are. For obvious reasons
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Actually Caine was very young when DADT was instituted but prior to that they did a survey of senior petty officers and about 60% said they would get out or not re enlist in the service if gays were allowed to serve openly.........
 
doughgirl said:



Would have no problem whatsoever showering with a lesbian in a communal shower. Even if she said, damn your hot I want you…….would have no problem just saying I am sorry but I am not gay. Now if she tried to touch me…..after I said no, then we would have a problem and I would take appropriate actions as i would with anyone who made advances that i didnt want.

I don’t know why but I see it as being different. Woman have the same bodies. Men have the same bodies. Woman have periods, men don’t……..I"m sorry but I would feel more comfortable sharing a bathroom with a lesbian than a male.

Hell at this point I don’t know anything :confused: ……..but I do know this…..I truly believe that it doesn’t matter what our bodies look like, it has nothing to do with job performance. And while you are on the job……..you forget about sex. Now why is that so hard for some people to get?
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Would you have a problem showering with a man?
 
doughgirl said:
Let me ask you this question, Caine? What do they say men think with?
There is your answer because ………this wouldn’t be a problem for woman. You’d be hard pressed to find a straight woman who found it threatening to have to take a shower with lesbians. I think straight men think if they shower with gays they just might like it and feel threatened.
I think the gay lifestyle is wrong, but that doesn’t change my opinion that any gay man or lesbian woman cant do an equally effective job as any straight man and woman .
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Agreed. Nobody who is not in agreement with me can answer my question.





What is the age limit?
Click to expand...
I believe they increased it to 41 as the max age for new recruits. So, when my son is old enough to join, I could join up again and serve right along side of him... pathetic eh?


But I ask you…….our press/media bash the troops, and look at how views from our nation have changed about those serving in the millitary. They are not looked at the same as they were 5-10 years ago.
Why would any smart, young man/woman want to inlist only to be bashed by a large segment of our population ….ok I’m sayin it, left-wing liberals and democrats.
Click to expand...
Im sorry, your getting "bash the troops" confused with "bash the war". Your going to have wingnuts during any type of war. But nobody that I served with actually felt as if the media was bashing the troops. Only those really sensitive nuts who think that because the media is reporting on a military mistake, that they are being bashed. Sorry, they are just reporting news, or if the media is reporting on allegations of a couple of rogue soldiers raping/killing innocents, then they are bashing the entire military, sorry, they are just reporting news.

When I served, I never felt as if the media was bashing me, and few of my fellow soldiers thought so either. (There were a couple of wingnuts I served with who thought that if the media reporting anything negative they were "bashing")
 
Navy Pride said:
Actually Caine was very young when DADT was instituted but prior to that they did a survey of senior petty officers and about 60% said they would get out or not re enlist in the service if gays were allowed to serve openly.........
Click to expand...

Yes, we have discussed this before...

Its shows very negatively on those senior petty officers who were polled if they were being honest, that they would quit doing what they love to do, quit serving this great nation because they have to work with a couple of gays.

Quite pathetic, and if their dedication to duty is that weak, they should quit because we don't want them.
 
Caine said:
Agreed. Nobody who is not in agreement with me can answer my question.





I believe they increased it to 41 as the max age for new recruits. So, when my son is old enough to join, I could join up again and serve right along side of him... pathetic eh?


Im sorry, your getting "bash the troops" confused with "bash the war". Your going to have wingnuts during any type of war. But nobody that I served with actually felt as if the media was bashing the troops. Only those really sensitive nuts who think that because the media is reporting on a military mistake, that they are being bashed. Sorry, they are just reporting news, or if the media is reporting on allegations of a couple of rogue soldiers raping/killing innocents, then they are bashing the entire military, sorry, they are just reporting news.

When I served, I never felt as if the media was bashing me, and few of my fellow soldiers thought so either. (There were a couple of wingnuts I served with who thought that if the media reporting anything negative they were "bashing")
Click to expand...

I had not heard that, can you provise a link please.....thanks......
 
Caine said:
Yes, we have discussed this before...

Its shows very negatively on those senior petty officers who were polled if they were being honest, that they would quit doing what they love to do, quit serving this great nation because they have to work with a couple of gays.

Quite pathetic, and if their dedication to duty is that weak, they should quit because we don't want them.
Click to expand...


That is your opinion but I happen to agree with the senior petty oficers and speaking for myself I would definitely get out if gays were allowed to serve openly aboard a U.S. Navy Man of War.........

Like I already said as mych as liberals like you would like the military to be a social experiment it is not that...............It is there to fight your wars and defend this country ........
 
Navy Pride said:
That is your opinion but I happen to agree with the senior petty oficers and speaking for myself I would definitely get out if gays were allowed to serve openly aboard a U.S. Navy Man of War.........
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Then it shows negatively on your "dedication to duty" as well. That you would let something like, working long side a gay person break that dedication and keep you from doing something that you love.

It is there to fight your wars and defend this country ........
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Exactly, so why are we letting dumb and old people in now, instead of just allowing openly gay people in?

Nobody, NOBODY, Has gave me a reason to think anything other than the fact that the military finds gays to be "lesser" people, and thus not equal to the rest of the heterosexual human beings.
 
Caine said:
Then it shows negatively on your "dedication to duty" as well. That you would let something like, working long side a gay person break that dedication and keep you from doing something that you love.


Exactly, so why are we letting dumb and old people in now, instead of just allowing openly gay people in?

Nobody, NOBODY, Has gave me a reason to think anything other than the fact that the military finds gays to be "lesser" people, and thus not equal to the rest of the heterosexual human beings.
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I have asked you for a link on that and you have not given it so I can only assume it is a figment of your imagination........I could call it a lie but I am to nice a guy to do that.......;)
 
Navy Pride said:
I have asked you for a link on that and you have not given it so I can only assume it is a figment of your imagination........I could call it a lie but I am to nice a guy to do that.......;)
Click to expand...

Actually you haven't asked for a link......

But, if you are so ignorant changes to current military recruitment standards, yet claim to be keeping up with what is going on in the military, I will have to find a few for you just because you are obviously not doing what you claim to do.
 
Caine said:
Actually you haven't asked for a link......

But, if you are so ignorant changes to current military recruitment standards, yet claim to be keeping up with what is going on in the military, I will have to find a few for you just because you are obviously not doing what you claim to do.
Click to expand...


Post number 208...........try and keep up OK.......

I had not heard that, can you provise a link please.....thanks......
 
Navy Pride said:
Post number 208...........try and keep up OK.......

I had not heard that, can you provise a link please.....thanks......
Click to expand...

Did you completly ignore post #213 made 10 minutes before this post of yours???????
 
Caine said:
What are the obvious reasons?

As Navy Pride said, the Military is not a social experiment, and since doing so will not add anything to achieiving the goals... what are these "obvious" reasons?
Click to expand...

For essentially the same reasons you don't mix woman and men. It doesn't have to be a social experiment. If your going to openly allow gays to enlist, then you might wantto consider some similar changes as you do with woman. This way you have less problems such as sexual harrasment as you mentioned with men and woman. NOt to mention breeding less conflict definetly can't have a negative effect.
 
Gardener said:
Just a thought, but if separate showers were needed to prevent potential sexual attraction, wouldn't that mean that Gay folks would have to shower alone rather than in a group?

Sometimes I wonder whether all this fuss over showering is based upon the notion that Gay men migt be attracted or the worry that they wouldn't? Must be a real ego buster to be rejected and all.
Click to expand...

Showers is being used as a convienent example and thats all.

BUt ya you have a good point. Guess it depends on who you think is going ot mind be hiton by a man more. A straight man or a gay man. GUess you can find a little conflict in anything
 
Calm2Chaos said:
For essentially the same reasons you don't mix woman and men. It doesn't have to be a social experiment. If your going to openly allow gays to enlist, then you might wantto consider some similar changes as you do with woman. This way you have less problems such as sexual harrasment as you mentioned with men and woman. NOt to mention breeding less conflict definetly can't have a negative effect.
Click to expand...

So......... what are those reasons?

And why should they trump allowing more competant soldiers in the military?
 
doughgirl said:
Let me ask you this question, Caine? What do they say men think with?
There is your answer because ………this wouldn’t be a problem for woman. You’d be hard pressed to find a straight woman who found it threatening to have to take a shower with lesbians. I think straight men think if they shower with gays they just might like it and feel threatened.
I think the gay lifestyle is wrong, but that doesn’t change my opinion that any gay man or lesbian woman cant do an equally effective job as any straight man and woman .
Click to expand...

Thats the biggest bunch of crap I have ever heard in my life. Did you just get done some mailorder psych course or something. LOL So doughgirl why is it you wouldn't want to shower with a bunch of straight men? Whats your problem? do you think your going to turn into a man or something or maybe you'll start to like woman. What makes you uncomfortable about it? IS it just the general Idea of being naked in front of someone that may be looking at you in a way you don't appriciate or like. Or is it that you just don't think that the guys would want to look at you? Is it a dignity thing or a vanity..Please don't say both.

I don't know who said they can't do a good job. caine just keeps on dragging that bone around so he has something to chew on.


doughgirl said:
But I ask you…….our press/media bash the troops, and look at how views from our nation have changed about those serving in the millitary. They are not looked at the same as they were 5-10 years ago.
Why would any smart, young man/woman want to inlist only to be bashed by a large segment of our population ….ok I’m sayin it, left-wing liberals and democrats.
Click to expand...

Things always change when you have to kill people and people die. It's fun to sing there praises when there not out doing there job. But when there is a cost involves tends to seperate those that care and those that don't
 
Caine said:
So......... what are those reasons?

And why should they trump allowing more competant soldiers in the military?
Click to expand...


You keep banging that drum and I am getting tired of it. I just mentioned a few reasons I will not go through it again. And who said anything about not allowing more competant soldiers in the military. Do you listen at all. Your arguing a point YOU made up. :roll:
 
Caine said:
Yes, we have discussed this before...

Its shows very negatively on those senior petty officers who were polled if they were being honest, that they would quit doing what they love to do, quit serving this great nation because they have to work with a couple of gays.

Quite pathetic, and if their dedication to duty is that weak, they should quit because we don't want them.
Click to expand...


So your brilliant plan is "Screw the many to satisfy the few". Please don't run for president, because this country will have no military capable of defending anything larger then the Jersey shore. :roll:
 
Calm2Chaos said:
So your brilliant plan is "Screw the many to satisfy the few". Please don't run for president, because this country will have no military capable of defending anything larger then the Jersey shore. :roll:
Click to expand...

So... lets ignore the fact that homophobia is more important than dedication to duty.... :roll:
 
Caine said:
So... lets ignore the fact that homophobia is more important than dedication to duty.... :roll:
Click to expand...

I would rather keep this country safe then make a poliitcal corectness point. To be against this issue is more to it then homophobic. Thats just a cute little liberal way of tying the whole package up in a neat little bow.

The difference is I have no problems with gays serving but i think there should be systems in place to limit and to deal with problems. Your idea is to force the situation down everyones throat and if they don't like it to leave....My way intergrates gays into the military with hopefully as little friction as possible (course I could be wrong). Your way has a gay military that just lost 1000's upon 1000's of recruits and reenlistments. And is now whoafully lacking in new recruiting and older specialists. Course your way maybe they all stay and hold hands and have a sing along. Everyone gets along and it's all sunshine and roses........................But I don't think so.. hopefully I am wrong though
 
Calm2Chaos said:
I would rather keep this country safe then make a poliitcal corectness point. To be against this issue is more to it then homophobic. Thats just a cute little liberal way of tying the whole package up in a neat little bow.
Click to expand...

So, to be against this issue is more than just homophobic?

What.. its so important to have a comfortable 1 1/2 min shower in basic training?

C'mon... everyone claims its not about homophobia... then what IS it then?

Nobody has explained it yet.
 
How about we just make any talk of sexual pref. a no no, this will solve all of this real quick. I don't need to know who you sleep with, and you don't need to know who I sleep with, this is very serious business, this military service, let's keep it that way!
 
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