Windows 8

[specklebang]

Not sure what you mean by this. Does he actually alter the OS? Or does he just disable unnecessary processes? If it's the latter, he is grossly overpaid.

I can't answer that. I was referring to his personal machines. I'll ask him if he ever gets a day off.

 

[clownboy]

Then I offer her my prayers because routinely Windows 7 will update itself while its AV software will update itself to conflict and she can spend joyous hours deleting and reinstalling software. Great discipline.

If that's happening to you you're doing something wrong. Win 7 updates have never conflicted with MSE in my experience. Aftermarket AV software is your choice and it sounds like you've chosen a particularly buggy one. That's not on MS.

Now with win8 MS has finally achieved suck goats parity with Mac OSes.

 

[LowDown]

I've had Win8 since release...almost a year...and I love it.

Now...I use the desktop about 90% of the time, but I use the modern ui start screen a lot, too. I've found some apps that are quite useful and that save me having to open a browser or another program to get the same information. Bottom line, though, Win8 is faster, more stable and more secure than Win7. In my opinion, that's enough of a reason to switch.

I'll never go back to plain old Win7 again.

I think Microsoft jumped the gun and went to Windows 8 too early. Had they waited until they had a customer base for Windows smart phones and tablets then nobody would be surprised when they put the same interface on laptop and desktop computers; those customers would already be familiar with it and they'd appreciate being able to use the same apps on all their machines.

I like the way I can start, for example, reading a book in Kindle and pick up reading from where I left off from any of my other devices -- smart phone, tablet, laptop, or desk top computer. You don't need Win 8 to do this but that's what Win 8 is all about.

I generally use the old desktop for most stuff with Win 8, but there are apps I like, esp. news readers, Kindle, weather, financial summaries, sports, picture viewer, video, etc. If nothing else it makes a nice start menu.

 

[clownboy]

There is no start menu with win8. That's part of the problem. I could do all those things you mention easily before they made the OS inflexible as Apple.

 

[clownboy]

I can't answer that. I was referring to his personal machines. I'll ask him if he ever gets a day off.

It's a great field - you get to choose any 80 hours a week you want to work! (mangled Gates quote):mrgreen:

 

[specklebang]

If that's happening to you you're doing something wrong. Win 7 updates have never conflicted with MSE in my experience. Aftermarket AV software is your choice and it sounds like you've chosen a particularly buggy one. That's not on MS.

Now with win8 MS has finally achieved suck goats parity with Mac OSes.

It's a great field - you get to choose any 80 hours a week you want to work! (mangled Gates quote):mrgreen:

I believe the program that conflicted was McAfee which was provided by her (my best friend and neighbor) IP. We've had to delete and reinstall this twice in the year or so since I gave her this all-in-one HP as a birthday gift. Why didn't I get her a MAC since I'm such a fanboy? Because yes, they do cost more than double and my generosity is legendary, but finite.

I posted what I did in response to the OP. Will Lizzie go to Best Buy and have someone show her the advantages of MAC vs. Windows? Probably not. Is it appropriate for me to suggest this - yes, I try to contribute something when I post.

I could go into a long diatribe about the basis for my opinion but I don't want to bore you. They are your systems, bought with your money and whatever decision you make is what you will have to live with.

Your Gates quote is very appropriate. Not only does he invest the 80 hours in his job, he took on a 2 year contract to write a inventory program for a division of Nevada Power, his formere employer. So, more like any 100 hours he chooses. When I was in business I put in those 23 hour days myself and I am enjoying retirement very, vey much.

 

[Slyfox696]

You know, for years, this (obviously good natured) argument went back and forth between my son and I. Now, he is a "computer guy" who develops systems and writes complex applications. So, effectively, he is a highly compensated "computer guy" who has never known unemployment. He has job offers all over the country. Of the hundreds of applications that were reviewed for the submission of the Yucca Mtn. final application, a program with thousands of aspects, his was the submission they chose for this multi-billion dollar project. Because he is very shy by nature, he has always refused upper management positions and chosen to be hands on. I'll stop boasting about him now.

He is now the "computer guy" for UNLV and the highest paid one. He finally had to look at MAC since the university has both types. He told me that he owed me an apology - MACs are indeed "better" than Windows.

Now, better is in the eye of the beholder. I bought my first MAC in 1987 because I had a fight with my typesetter who was always late with the company newsletter. I, nearsighted as I am, learned to do my work on that 9" screen which cost thousands of dollars. As each generation went by, I updated my machine. I adjusted from System 4 all the way to 10.6. In short, I know quite a bit about MACs. But I have friends that have Windows machines for budgetary (and familiarity) reasons and when they have problems, I try to help, since I'm more "computer literate" than they are - even if not on Windows.

I can tell you right now that the reason for the price difference isn't just arbitrary. You are paying for the far more intelligent array (not to mention all the annoying stuff of Windows) and yes, my son builds his own and strips out the garbage from the OS but he's paid 6 figures for knowing how to do this.

Personally, I don't care a feather or a fig about what computers other people use. I don't have any Apple stock. But I'm a smart enough cookie who has used his computer through 25 years of self employment and I can honestly say that the MAC OIS is so superior in its layout and methods that people who are just casual users would be far better off with MAC.

Just like the cats v. dogs argument, there is no point in trying to convince people addicted to Windows. I wish you nothing but the best. But for anyone who isn't a computer natural and has options, I extend my advice, to be used or rejected.

The problem with Mac is you do not get the overall compatibility of Windows nor the flexibility of a true Unix/Linux machine. And, in return for the lack of compatibility or flexibility, you get to pay two or three times as much for the hardware.

The benefits to a Mac, from everything I've ever read, essentially comes down to the fact Mac controls the hardware they put their software on. Because of this, they are better able to modify the OS to take full advantage of the hardware, without the extra bloat which accompanies Windows due to their "one size to fit all" offering. As far as layout and methods go, I've played with the Mac software a few times in a virtual machine (Snow Leopard, I believe it was) and it was not any easier to find what I needed than it was with Windows or OpenSuSE Linux (in fact, OpenSuSE's YaST may be the best I've ever seen at administering a system).

But once I got it set up, I said "now what?". What can I do on a Mac that I could not do on my Windows machine? I can think of several things I can do on my Windows machine I cannot do on Mac, but what do I need a Mac for? I LOVE the way the Macbook Air's are built. I most definitely would buy one...except they have always been overpriced.

At the end of the day, you're right. "Better" is dependent on who is doing the talking. But I've never seen any reason to spend two or three times more money to get something with less compatibility and/or less flexibility. Which is why I've never bought a Mac and don't ever plan to.

 

[clownboy]

I made the mistake many years ago of putting together a computer for my mother. She's an old-school artist and quite frankly not suited to use a computer, she just doesn't think in any sort of linear fashion. In later years I replaced it with a dell machine and their support package. She still calls me for computer support, but then when she starts going off the rails I can always refer her to the dell folks who are much more patient than myself.

If I was starting with her now I'd buy her a MS Surface (win 8). It's all the machine she needs/can manage and she doesn't have to worry about file systems or anything other than just checking her email and surfing the web [somewhat] safely. The ignorance she feels comfortable with is preserved and she can still be a part of the communication generation.

That's the role of win8 IMO.

 

[Mycroft]

There is no start menu with win8. That's part of the problem. I could do all those things you mention easily before they made the OS inflexible as Apple.

Everything you had available in the Win7 start menu is available in Win8.

Everything.

 

[lizzie]

I made the mistake many years ago of putting together a computer for my mother. She's an old-school artist and quite frankly not suited to use a computer, she just doesn't think in any sort of linear fashion. In later years I replaced it with a dell machine and their support package. She still calls me for computer support, but then when she starts going off the rails I can always refer her to the dell folks who are much more patient than myself.

If I was starting with her now I'd buy her a MS Surface (win 8). It's all the machine she needs/can manage and she doesn't have to worry about file systems or anything other than just checking her email and surfing the web [somewhat] safely. The ignorance she feels comfortable with is preserved and she can still be a part of the communication generation.

That's the role of win8 IMO.

I have tried repeatedly, over the past several years, to get my mom to use a computer and learn to surf the web. She could do it with ease, once she got started, as she's a really intelligent woman, and she does think in a linear fashion. She would have a blast with it, because she likes to share ideas, and discuss concepts. She just can't get over her intimidation of the idea.

 

[Mycroft]

If I weren't so damn hard-headed, I'd probably do the same, but I am going to **** with it until it either breaks, or I can use it.

As I said, it's an easy OS to use. You will have some kind of learning curve depending on your abilities. If you've ever learned a program that you've never used before, you won't have any problem with this.

There is a lot of information available to help you and if you ever hit a brick wall you can't break through, just ask here. I will either know the answer or I'll find it for you.

 

[Mycroft]

I can't answer that. I was referring to his personal machines. I'll ask him if he ever gets a day off.

I also build my own computers. I haven't bought a PC since my first Acer back in 1998. After installing Windows, I routinely disable unnecessary processes. I consider that as getting rid of garbage...but it really isn't. It is simply tailoring the OS to my needs. Other people may have uses for what I consider garbage.

I'm sure your son earns 6 figures because he knows much more than how to get rid of garbage, but MS might frown on him using his knowledge to actually change the OS.

 

[specklebang]

I also build my own computers. I haven't bought a PC since my first Acer back in 1998. After installing Windows, I routinely disable unnecessary processes. I consider that as getting rid of garbage...but it really isn't. It is simply tailoring the OS to my needs. Other people may have uses for what I consider garbage.

I'm sure your son earns 6 figures because he knows much more than how to get rid of garbage, but MS might frown on him using his knowledge to actually change the OS.

I think his value is more about his code-writing skills than his hardware skills. I'm just glad he has a job, never gets in trouble and (finally) got himself a beautiful young wife who seems to be devoted to him and to advancing her own earnings capability.

Since not all of us (me included) have the skill-set to modify an OS, I do appreciate the relative simplicity of the MAC directory system. If I want to get rid of something, I just highlight and delete instead of having to do a removal process. Since now I no longer use most of my old programs, my MAC is sheer overkill but the 27" monitor is a great help to my low vision.

 

[Mycroft]

I have two 27 inchers. Makes it nice with Win8 because I can have the normal desktop on one or both and switch either one to the Win8 start screen as needed. When prices for touchscreen monitors come down to what I can afford, I'll get me another one and use that for the start screen. That's when Win8 will really come alive for me.