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Will the Dutch Be Next?

Jack Hays

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After the Brexit vote there has been much talk of other EU national secession referenda to follow. Will Netherlands be next?

Netherlands Would Profit from Leaving the EU
Geert Wilders & Susanne Koelbl, Spiegel

SPIEGEL: Mr. Wilders, Brexit proponents were toasting their victory until recently. Now they have a massive hangover. But on Tuesday, you were still trying to compel the Dutch parliament to vote on the possibility of leaving the European Union. Of course, you suffered a resounding defeat. Are you actually aware of what you're trying to accomplish here?


Wilders: Of course, very well even. The instability we're seeing in England at the moment is only temporary. In the long run, the British will profit, just like we'd profit from leaving the EU.
SPIEGEL: The Netherlands is the world's second-largest exporter of agricultural products. The EU is your country's most important market. What would be the benefit of leaving the bloc?
Wilders: We'd finally get our national sovereignty back, as well as our autonomy in matters of monetary and immigration policy -- just like Switzerland. That's my favorite example: a country in the heart of Europe, that even has individual trade agreements with China and Japan. The British too -- Germany's third-largest trading partner -- will reach an agreement with the EU. . . .
 

Jack Hays

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A Soviet End for the EU?
Leonid Bershidsky, Bloomberg View

Vladimir Bukovsky, a prominent former dissident who now lives in the U.K., has long likened the European Union to the Soviet Union, a country he hated and fought -- a milder version of it, to be sure, but in its own way ideological and undemocratic. Few were willing to listen, but now, Marine Le Pen, leader of the French National Front, is saying the EU is beginning to disintegrate just like the Soviet Union. The analogy deserves some discussion.
There's something in the post-Brexit air that recalls the Soviet collapse. As President Vladimir Putin's press secretary, Dmitri Peskov, put it this week, "it would probably be unreasonable to draw direct parallels, but a certain, let's say, turbulent, murky and unpredictable time is upon us.". . . .
 

Carjosse

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Wilders is not the kind of person you want to be asking, there may be a bias there. After reaching a peak is party his now on a decline. But every Dutch polling firm will give you different answers on who is leading. But they will never be in a coalition so will never get to govern or have any real influence.
 
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coldjoint

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Wilders is not the kind of person you want to be asking, there may be a bias there. After reaching a peak is party his now on a decline. But every Dutch polling firm will give you different answers on who is leading. But they will never be in a coalition so will never get to govern or have any real influence.

Wilders influence is very real. And every terror attack strengthens it. Every rape, every beating, and all the perks of Muslim immigration.
 

PeteEU

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Needs a new election for it to happen. Wilders nazi party has 15 seats out 150 and zero influence. Can he get more seats in the next election.. sure, but can he get 76 seats? doubtful. As long as the rest of the parties dont want a referendum, then there wont be any. Next election has to happen before March 15th next year. I am guessing that the government will wait till the last second to call the election.
 

Jack Hays

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Needs a new election for it to happen. Wilders nazi party has 15 seats out 150 and zero influence. Can he get more seats in the next election.. sure, but can he get 76 seats? doubtful. As long as the rest of the parties dont want a referendum, then there wont be any. Next election has to happen before March 15th next year. I am guessing that the government will wait till the last second to call the election.

The Godwin faux pas notwithstanding, don't you think "nazi" is over the top?
 

PeteEU

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The Godwin faux pas notwithstanding, don't you think "nazi" is over the top?

Not at all, he is using the exact same tactics as Hitler did when he wanted power. He has his goons, spreads lies and propaganda about a minority and pushes undemocratic crap while claiming to be a democrat ..

Oh and another thing, his party has 9 out 75 seats in the upper house, and there aint an election there for another 3 years.. Dunno exactly who can call a referendum, but I am guessing both houses need to agree.
 

Jack Hays

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Not at all, he is using the exact same tactics as Hitler did when he wanted power. He has his goons, spreads lies and propaganda about a minority and pushes undemocratic crap while claiming to be a democrat ..

Oh and another thing, his party has 9 out 75 seats in the upper house, and there aint an election there for another 3 years.. Dunno exactly who can call a referendum, but I am guessing both houses need to agree.

Let me know when there's a Dutch "Night of the Long Knives." Anyway, we're in for interesting times.
 

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After the Brexit vote there has been much talk of other EU national secession referenda to follow. Will Netherlands be next?

Netherlands Would Profit from Leaving the EU
Geert Wilders & Susanne Koelbl, Spiegel

SPIEGEL: Mr. Wilders, Brexit proponents were toasting their victory until recently. Now they have a massive hangover. But on Tuesday, you were still trying to compel the Dutch parliament to vote on the possibility of leaving the European Union. Of course, you suffered a resounding defeat. Are you actually aware of what you're trying to accomplish here?


Wilders: Of course, very well even. The instability we're seeing in England at the moment is only temporary. In the long run, the British will profit, just like we'd profit from leaving the EU.
SPIEGEL: The Netherlands is the world's second-largest exporter of agricultural products. The EU is your country's most important market. What would be the benefit of leaving the bloc?
Wilders: We'd finally get our national sovereignty back, as well as our autonomy in matters of monetary and immigration policy -- just like Switzerland. That's my favorite example: a country in the heart of Europe, that even has individual trade agreements with China and Japan. The British too -- Germany's third-largest trading partner -- will reach an agreement with the EU. . . .

If they were smart, they would leave right behind England. Having a group non elected prima donna's in control of 20+ countries was never a good idea to begin with.
 

PeteEU

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If they were smart, they would leave right behind England. Having a group non elected prima donna's in control of 20+ countries was never a good idea to begin with.

And that is not how the EU works. Everyone taking discisions are elected.
 

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Let me know when there's a Dutch "Night of the Long Knives." Anyway, we're in for interesting times.
Oh if it was up to Gilders, then there would be one .. if he could get away with it.
 

PeteEU

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I've known a lot of Dutchmen in my travels. I find your statement hard to credit.

Oh I know a lot of Dutch and most are appalled by Wilders. It is a small minority that would go that far, but all it takes is a tiny minority and fearful population.. that is how Hitler did it after all.
 

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By who????????????

By the citizens of the member countries.. do you really not know how the EU works?

The Council of Ministers is made up of elected ministers from each member nation. They are the ultimate place discisions are made, along with a fully elected Parliament. And in some countries the national parliaments are included fully in the discision making. Ironically it is far more democratic than the UK it self... where a party that won 32% of the vote rules with majority and the upper chamber is fully appointed.
 

Jack Hays

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Oh I know a lot of Dutch and most are appalled by Wilders. It is a small minority that would go that far, but all it takes is a tiny minority and fearful population.. that is how Hitler did it after all.

Actually, no. Hitler did it because he tapped into a broad and deep cultural vein.
 

PeteEU

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Actually, no. Hitler did it because he tapped into a broad and deep cultural vein.

LOL no he did not. He used the scapegoat tactic that Wilders and other right wingers are using to gain power in a time of economic turmoil. The traditional parties in Germany were fearful over the "socialists" and did everything to prevent the Socialists for gaining power.. which meant the Nazi party. In the end once he had his foot in the door, he and his goons did everything to promote hatred and fear and that lead to him gaining full power.
 

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By the citizens of the member countries.. do you really not know how the EU works?

The Council of Ministers is made up of elected ministers from each member nation. They are the ultimate place discisions are made, along with a fully elected Parliament. And in some countries the national parliaments are included fully in the discision making. Ironically it is far more democratic than the UK it self... where a party that won 32% of the vote rules with majority and the upper chamber is fully appointed.

NO! ..........actually.......that is NOT entirely true and you know it. Voters in each individual country can have their voices stamped out by other countries.
 

Jack Hays

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LOL no he did not. He used the scapegoat tactic that Wilders and other right wingers are using to gain power in a time of economic turmoil. The traditional parties in Germany were fearful over the "socialists" and did everything to prevent the Socialists for gaining power.. which meant the Nazi party. In the end once he had his foot in the door, he and his goons did everything to promote hatred and fear and that lead to him gaining full power.

I'm sure that makes you feel better, but Hitler's genocide was assisted by many.

[h=3]Hitler's Willing Executioners - The New York Times[/h]https://www.nytimes.com/books/97/03/09/bsp/hitler.html


The New York Times


HITLER'S WILLING EXECUTIONERS Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust By Daniel Jonah Goldhagen. A basic question posed by students of the Holocaust ...
 

PeteEU

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NO! ..........actually.......that is NOT entirely true and you know it. Voters in each individual country can have their voices stamped out by other countries.

Are you freaking serious? You can say that of any representative democracy... including your own. The voices of say Montana are totally dwarfed by the voices of California.. or if we look at a state .. the voices of New York city totally dwarf the rest of the state...
 

PeteEU

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I'm sure that makes you feel better, but Hitler's genocide was assisted by many.

[h=3]Hitler's Willing Executioners - The New York Times[/h]https://www.nytimes.com/books/97/03/09/bsp/hitler.html


The New York Times


HITLER'S WILLING EXECUTIONERS Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust By Daniel Jonah Goldhagen. A basic question posed by students of the Holocaust ...

Why are you bringing his genocide into this?

I am talking about his rise to power nothing more. And sure there were many willing, especially among the rich powerful right wing business owners, but that does not mean that the whole population was in on it. They were lied too and manipulated by Hitler and his goons with lies and propaganda.

So when you today see right wingers in any country blaming all Muslims for the acts of the few, then that is exactly what Hitler did. He said that all Jews were at fault for the economic crash, the 1st World War and so on and on. It is the scapegoat tactic, used by many crazy leaders through out history.
 

Jack Hays

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Why are you bringing his genocide into this?

I am talking about his rise to power nothing more. And sure there were many willing, especially among the rich powerful right wing business owners, but that does not mean that the whole population was in on it. They were lied too and manipulated by Hitler and his goons with lies and propaganda.

So when you today see right wingers in any country blaming all Muslims for the acts of the few, then that is exactly what Hitler did. He said that all Jews were at fault for the economic crash, the 1st World War and so on and on. It is the scapegoat tactic, used by many crazy leaders through out history.

The point is that anti-Semitism had broad and deep roots in Germany, in a way that anti-immigrant (or anti-Muslim) attitudes in the Netherlands do not.
 

PeteEU

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The point is that anti-Semitism had broad and deep roots in Germany, in a way that anti-immigrant (or anti-Muslim) attitudes in the Netherlands do not.

LOL for **** sake. Holland and Belgium was one of the most anti-Semitic nations and people in Europe before the rise of Hitler. Only the US and Sweden on a global basis were more anti-Semtic before Hitler got his groove on. Racism and bagitory have big roots in Dutch and Belgian society.. it was after all the Dutch that many say invented the African slave trade, and then there was that whole Congo thing for the Belgians.

It amazes me to this day the utter denial in western society over our anti-Semitism up to WW2 and in some places even after WW2. The US put in place immigration laws specifically targeting Jews long before Hitler even thought of running for office. The UK did not allow Jews to hold office, which was a problem when they elected a Jew as prime minister..
 
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