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Will Republicans Help to Impeach Bush?

aps said:
Wow. I had no idea that the Left ordered the investigation. I didn't realize how powerful they are with a republican president! LOL

Hey Aps, can you read? Where does it say above that the Left ordered the investigation? And you say I am like a child?! :roll: My 7yo can read and comprehend better than you!
 
easyt65 said:
Hey Aps, can you read? Where does it say above that the Left ordered the investigation? And you say I am like a child?! :roll: My 7yo can read and comprehend better than you!

OMG, you hurt me with your condescension! LOL

Please look at the quote above my prior post. You're making it seem as though the LEFT is investigating the Plame case, as you accused them of not being able to get any evidence against Rove. The last time I checked, the Special Prosecutor was investigating the Plame case. The LEFT has nothing to do with it. Hence, my saying that I had no idea that the LEFT, when not in the White House, could order an investigation.

I think you might need some help on reading comprehension. Have your 7-year-old help you, will you? :lol:
 
aps said:
OMG, you hurt me with your condescension! LOL

Please look at the quote above my prior post. You're making it seem as though the LEFT is investigating the Plame case, as you accused them of not being able to get any evidence against Rove. The last time I checked, the Special Prosecutor was investigating the Plame case. The LEFT has nothing to do with it. Hence, my saying that I had no idea that the LEFT, when not in the White House, could order an investigation.
:lol:

The Left has everything to do with it! The whole set up, even Wilson's trip to Africa - wilson has been proven to be a liar so many times over in this whole investigation that it isn't even funny anymore. The Libs didn't order the investigation but they sure screamed and hollered for it. Wilson was claiming that it was even payback for his Africa trip, etc....You can't possibly sit there and tell me that Partisan politcs has/had absolutely NO part in this whole thing! :spin:

And thanks for dodging my question: WHERE does it say above that the Left ordered the investigation! I am not making anything seem anything. Many democrats, even You yourself, are making all kinds of accusations in the midst of discussions about this case regarding the outing of a CIA agent, but you have yet to prove that aspect of the case, which is exactly what i said and what was posted above. Not once does it say above the Left ordered the investigation. Thanks for the "its-not-my-fault' generation attempted transfer of blame from yourself to me.

What you meant to say is, "You're right, Easy. It does not say that anywhere above, and I was wrong."
 
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easyt65 said:
The Left has everything to do with it! The whole set up, even Wilson's trip to Africa - wilson has been proven to be a liar so many times over in this whole investigation that it isn't even funny anymore. The Libs didn't order the investigation but they sure screamed and hollered for it.

I never said anything about partisan politics. So you think that that Wilson went to Niger hoping that this would anger the White House enough so that they would out his wife as a CIA agent and then he could demand an investigation and they could get Rove. Is that what you're telling me? Come on, tell me you're more logical than this.

What the hell does Wilson have to do with Plame's name being outed? Oh, that's right, that's what Ken Mehlman & Company have said. Whether Wilson is a liar, a loser, a nobody has NO IMPACT on the Plame investigation. That's what the right likes to do--attack Wilson. My brother (a republican) tried that ridiculous tactic--months and months ago. LOL

Wilson was claiming that it was even payback for his Africa trip, etc....You can't possibly sit there and tell me that Partisan politcs has/had absolutely NO part in this whole thing! :spin:

???? Wilson was furious that his wife's name was leaked. All her neighbors thought she was a consultant for some fake company--even people who were close friends with her. If someone did that to me, I would scream and yell as well. So I don't blame him.

But back on point, so yes, he screamed and yelled and an investigation was started. But that's where Wilson's role ends. He and anyone other than Fitzgerald and his employees have NO power to conduct any portion of the investigation. So your allegations that the left cannot find any evidence to indict Rove are just plain pathetic. Do you think that Fitzgerald is some robot who lets others call the shots?
 
In response to THAT jibberish above about the honorable and forth-right Mr. Joe Wilson:



Our Man in Niger
Exposed and discredited, Joe Wilson might consider going back.
National Review Online
http://www.nationalreview.com/may/may200407121105.asp


Joe Wilson's cover has been blown. For the past year, he has claimed to be a truth-teller, a whistleblower, the victim of a vast right-wing conspiracy — and most of the media have lapped it up and cheered him on.

After a whirl of TV and radio appearances during which he received high-fives and hearty hugs from producers and hosts (I was in some green rooms with him so this is eyewitness reporting), and a wet-kiss profile in Vanity Fair, he gave birth to a quickie book sporting his dapper self on the cover, and verbosely entitled The Politics of Truth: Inside the Lies that Led to War and Betrayed My Wife's CIA Identity: A Diplomat's Memoir.

The book jacket talks of his "fearless insight" (whatever that's supposed to mean) and "disarming candor" (which does not extend to telling readers for whom he has been working since retiring early from the Foreign Service).

The biographical blurb describes him as a "political centrist" who received a prize for "Truth-Telling," though a careful reader might notice that the award came in part from a group associated with The Nation magazine — which only Michael Moore would consider a centrist publication.

But now Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV — he of the Hermes ties and Jaguar convertibles — has been thoroughly discredited. Last week's bipartisan Senate intelligence committee report concluded that it is he who has been telling lies.

For starters, he has insisted that his wife, CIA employee Valerie Plame, was not the one who came up with the brilliant idea that the agency send him to Niger to investigate whether Saddam Hussein had been attempting to acquire uranium. "Valerie had nothing to do with the matter," Wilson says in his book. "She definitely had not proposed that I make the trip." In fact, the Senate panel found, she was the one who got him that assignment. The panel even found a memo by her. (She should have thought to use disappearing ink.)

Wilson spent a total of eight days in Niger "drinking sweet mint tea and meeting with dozens of people," as he put it. On the basis of this "investigation" he confidently concluded that there was no way Saddam sought uranium from Africa. Oddly, Wilson didn't bother to write a report saying this. Instead he gave an oral briefing to a CIA official.

Oddly, too, as an investigator on assignment for the CIA he was not required to keep his mission and its conclusions confidential. And for the New York Times, he was happy to put pen to paper, to write an op-ed charging the Bush administration with "twisting," "manipulating" and "exaggerating" intelligence about Saddam Hussein's weapons programs "to justify an invasion."

In particular he said that President Bush was lying when, in his 2003 State of the Union address, he pronounced these words: "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

We now know for certain that Wilson was wrong and that Bush's statement was entirely accurate.

The British have consistently stood by that conclusion. In September 2003, an independent British parliamentary committee looked into the matter and determined that the claim made by British intelligence was "reasonable" (the media forgot to cover that one too). Indeed, Britain's spies stand by their claim to this day. Interestingly, French intelligence also reported an Iraqi attempt to procure uranium from Niger.

Yes, there were fake documents relating to Niger-Iraq sales. But no, those forgeries were not the evidence that convinced British intelligence that Saddam may have been shopping for "yellowcake" uranium. On the contrary, according to some intelligence sources, the forgery was planted in order to be discovered — as a ruse to discredit the story of a Niger-Iraq link, to persuade people there were no grounds for the charge. If that was the plan, it worked like a charm.

But that's not all. The Butler report, yet another British government inquiry, also is expected to conclude this week that British intelligence was correct to say that Saddam sought uranium from Niger.

yadda, yadda, yadda - click the link and read it all yourself...

I was the first to suggest, here on National Review Online a year ago ("Scandal!" and "No Yellowcake Walk"), that Wilson should not have been given this assignment, that he had no training or demonstrated competence as an investigator, that his inquiry had been obviously superficial and that, far from being a "centrist," he was a partisan with an ax to grind.

But my complaint was really less with Wilson than it was with the CIA for sending him, rather than an experienced spy or investigator, to check out such an important and sensitive matter as whether one of the world's most vicious killers had been trying to buy the stuff that nuclear weapons are made of.

For this, I received a couple of dishonorable mentions in Wilson's memoir. He has a chapter called "What I Didn't Find in Africa," which might be used as a case study for CIA trainees and others who need to understand the fundamental principle of logic that "the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." In other words, Wilson fails to grasp that because he didn't find proof that Saddam was seeking African uranium does not mean that proof was not there to be found.

In reaction to his "fearless candor" and "disarming insight" about the "sixteen-word lie," Wilson writes that "right-wing hatchet men were being wheeled out to attack me. More ominously, plots were being hatched in the White House that would betray America's national security.

He writes: "Clifford May was first off the mark, spewing uninformed vitriol in a piece in National Review Online blindly operating on the principle that facts, those pesky facts, just do not matter."

Well, facts, those pesky facts do matter and a bipartisan Senate investigative committee has now established that Wilson has had very few in his possession. And, for the record, I was never advised anything about Wilson by anyone serving in the White House, the administration, or the Republican party. I never even had a discussion about him with such folks.

There is much more that could be said about the Wilson affair, and certainly many questions that ought to be both asked and answered. But in the interest of time and space, let me leave you with just one: Now that we know that Mrs. Wilson did recommend Mr. Wilson for the Niger assignment, can we not infer that she was working at CIA headquarters in Langley rather than as an undercover operative in some front business or organization somewhere?

As I suggested in another NRO piece (Spy Games), if that is the case — if she was not working undercover and if the CIA was not taking measures to protect her cover — no law was broken by columnist Bob Novak in naming her, or by whoever told Novak that she worked for the CIA.

It is against the law to knowingly name an undercover agent. It is not against the law to name a CIA employee who is not an undercover agent.

blah, blah, blah...

I don't think Joe Wilson is an evil man. I do think he is an angry partisan and an opportunist. According to my sources, during most of his diplomatic career he specialized in general services and administration, which means he was not the political or economic adviser to the ambassador, rather he was the guy who makes sure the embassy plumbing is working and that the commissary is stocked with Oreos and other products the ambassador prefers.

blah, blah, blah....

In 1991, Wilson's book jacket boasts, President George H.W. Bush praised Wilson as "a true American hero," and he was made an ambassador. But for some reason, he was assigned not to Cairo, Paris, or Moscow, places where you put the best and the brightest, nor was he sent to Bermuda or Luxembourg, places you send people you want to reward. Instead, he was sent to Gabon, a diplomatic backwater of the first rank.


But based on one op-ed declaring 16 words spoken by the president a lie, he transformed himself into an instant celebrity and, for a while, it seemed, a contender for power within the chien-mange-le-chien world of foreign policy. That dream has now probably evaporated. It is hard to see how a President John Kerry would now want Wilson in his inner circle. But if he desired to return to Gabon or Niger I, for one, would not be among those opposing him.
 
danarhea said:
The White House thinks so, and are bracing for impeachment hearings, which could be bolstered by the outcome of the Judiciary Committee hearings, which begin early in February. The key here is Arlen Specter, who is chairman of the Judiciary Committee. As head of the committee, Specter could have quashed any move to determine if Bush broke the law. However, he gave the hearings a thumbs up, thus enabling the committee to go ahead with the Bush investigation. If the committee does indeed determine that Bush broke the law, the next step will be for formal impeachment hearings in the House. We all know that the Democrats will vote to a man (or woman) to impeach, but are there enough votes from Republicans? The White House believes there could be. I also believe there could be. There are enough real Conservatives left in the Republican party who put America first, that impeachment is a distinct possibility. However, when it gets to the Senate for trial, Bush will prevail, as the dittoheads on both sides will gridlock. Like the Clinton impeachment, the attempt to remove Bush from office will not even get half the vote, let alone what is needed. However, like the Clinton trial, the damage will be done.

To summarize, impeachment can happen if:

1) One Republican on the Judiciary Committee determines that Bush broke the law. Of course, we know that the Democrats will stick together, but will one Republican bolt? That is the question.

2) If enough Republicans in the House vote for impeachment. The GOP doesnt have as solid majority in the House it once did. Impeachment by the House is a greater possibility than a Judiciary Committee vote against Bush. If the first hurdle is cleared, then the second hurdle will be easy.

In the end, it just might be a few Republicans who end up putting the move to impeach over the top.

Based on this article.

I think its very possible. He did not follow procedure and broke the law, plain and simple. I don't care for Bush, but I'm not sure he deserves impeachment for the wiretappings. He was just looking out for the safety of the American people.

Lets say my mother lived in the Middle East and I called her and he tapped in on my conversation, I could care less, because I clearly have nothing to hide. Besides, he would regret listening to a babbling conversation between my mother and I. However, I can understand how other people would feel violated, but there are much worse things than that.
 
easyt65 said:
In response to THAT jibberish above about the honorable and forth-right Mr. Joe Wilson:

This is all I have to say to your above post: :yawn:

The fact that you want to put Wilson on trial is rather pathetic and tells me that you (1) have no understanding of the situation and/or (2) you just listen to what republicans say.

Hey, easy, it's me, Ken Mehlman. This is what the plan is. Wilson has gotten an investigation ordered in connection with the leaking of his wife's name. We have to hide the ball, easy. We have to. So what you and I and Hannity and Coulter and Malkin and Rove (via a whisper campaign) need to do is hide the ball and talk about Wilson and how he is a lying sack of poop. We just hammer him like no one's business and people will think about Wilson and what a poo poo head he is and not think about how the White House leaked the name of a CIA employee whose status was classified.

Oh, and here's part II, easy. Stay with me, my republican-loving friend. You have to point out how everyone in Washington DC knew who Valerie Plame was--that Wilson was out telling everyone, "Hey, this is my CIA wife and she likes to spy on you--hardy har har." She posed in a magazine (but don't mention that it was after July 2003). Wilson wrote books where he informed everyone that his wife was a CIA agent (again, don't mention that this was AFTER July 2003).

You say these things enough, easy, and people start to believe it (take a look at the "warrantless wiretapping is legal campaign"). Then those people will pass it on and so on and so on, and soon everyone will be talking about Wilson and Plame and how they are just total con artists and need to be slandered. Thanks pal.

:lol:
 
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Stace said:
He did not follow procedure and broke the law, plain and simple.

As of this moment in time, that is an opinion, not a verdict from a court of law.
 
I just posted the stuff about Wilson to prove 1 simple fact - the demand that there was no party politics, that Joe Wilson did not have a political angle, is absolute CR@P!

As far as pounding Wilson, Ihave no desire to do that either! Its all the politics of Personal/Party Vendettas and the politics of Personal Destruction! BOTHG sides are doing it, and I am fed up with it/both of them. I am also tired of guys who say that politics has nothig to do with 'this'.

A perfect example is the scandal that dragged tom DeLay out of the Majority Seat. It has been proven that the DA was politically connected to the Dem party, had been bragging for years he would 'bag' tom DeLay', and even filed 12 other indictments before lucking up and getting a (D) Judge who finally acted on one! Does what I just said mean I am a rabid GOP defender and believe DeLay is white as the driven snow? Heck, no,but I am not stupid enough to believe or ignorant enough to declare that this was not p[olitically motivated, either! I do, in fact, think DeLay was doing quite a few things he shouln't have and that it caught up to him....but the fact is that the 13 indictments filed againsthim and the DA's bragging was politically motivated, too. The game sucks, but the guilty - ALL the guilty, not JUST the GOP - should have to pay!

I wish the BS Politics of Personal Destruction would ALL just end, on BOTH sides!
 
oldreliable67 said:
As of this moment in time, that is an opinion, not a verdict from a court of law.

Well said.
 
oldreliable67 said:
As of this moment in time, that is an opinion, not a verdict from a court of law.

Actually, no it is not just opinion. It is no more of an opinion then if I held up a convenient store at gun point and then admitted it. Would that be an opinion or would it be a crime? He did not have a court ordered or even the support from congress.
 
alphieb said:
Actually, no it is not just opinion. It is no more of an opinion then if I held up a convenient store at gun point and then admitted it. Would that be an opinion or would it be a crime? He did not have a court ordered or even the support from congress.

Which he did not need, as many justice Department, NSA, and other personnel have declared. THAT is what the investigation is about, to decide who is right. Unfortunately, and lucky for Bush, 'because I/Democrats said/say so' is not good enough to find him guilty and Impeach the President! Before I take the word of partisan persons, how about we let the Justice department/investigation do its job, shall we?!
 
easyt65 said:
Which he did not need, as many justice Department, NSA, and other personnel have declared. THAT is what the investigation is about, to decide who is right. Unfortunately, and lucky for Bush, 'because I/Democrats said/say so' is not good enough to find him guilty and Impeach the President! Before I take the word of partisan persons, how about we let the Justice department/investigation do its job, shall we?!

Are you aware that only 15 days after a terrorist attack the president has the right to his own investigation without a Judge's order. That is what the constitution states. Is the constitution wrong? This is the Law and he is not a King.
 
easyt65 said:
Which he did not need, as many justice Department, NSA, and other personnel have declared. THAT is what the investigation is about, to decide who is right. Unfortunately, and lucky for Bush, 'because I/Democrats said/say so' is not good enough to find him guilty and Impeach the President! Before I take the word of partisan persons, how about we let the Justice department/investigation do its job, shall we?!

I'm sure the Justice Department will do a real bang up job considering they are all Republicans.
 
alphieb said:
I'm sure the Justice Department will do a real bang up job considering they are all Republicans.

More with the partisan BS...no worse I am sure than those who were responsible for the 'checks and balances' of Clinton and the MANY scandals he walked unscathed away from. He was protected from the Chinese-missile-campaign-contribution scandal, the FBI file-gate scandal, etc....so I can play this game, too...but it is all political games and garbage from both sides!

Enough already!
 
easyt65 said:
More with the partisan BS...no worse I am sure than those who were responsible for the 'checks and balances' of Clinton and the MANY scandals he walked unscathed away from. He was protected from the Chinese-missile-campaign-contribution scandal, the FBI file-gate scandal, etc....so I can play this game, too...but it is all political games and garbage from both sides!

Enough already!

True......That makes a point that nothing will happen to him.
 
alphieb said:
True......That makes a point that nothing will happen to him.
Probably not...just as in the Case of Clinton...which does not make it any more right now, if it happens, than it did then.
 
easyt65 said:
I just posted the stuff about Wilson to prove 1 simple fact - the demand that there was no party politics, that Joe Wilson did not have a political angle, is absolute CR@P!

As far as pounding Wilson, Ihave no desire to do that either! Its all the politics of Personal/Party Vendettas and the politics of Personal Destruction! BOTHG sides are doing it, and I am fed up with it/both of them. I am also tired of guys who say that politics has nothig to do with 'this'.

A perfect example is the scandal that dragged tom DeLay out of the Majority Seat. It has been proven that the DA was politically connected to the Dem party, had been bragging for years he would 'bag' tom DeLay', and even filed 12 other indictments before lucking up and getting a (D) Judge who finally acted on one! Does what I just said mean I am a rabid GOP defender and believe DeLay is white as the driven snow? Heck, no,but I am not stupid enough to believe or ignorant enough to declare that this was not p[olitically motivated, either! I do, in fact, think DeLay was doing quite a few things he shouln't have and that it caught up to him....but the fact is that the 13 indictments filed againsthim and the DA's bragging was politically motivated, too. The game sucks, but the guilty - ALL the guilty, not JUST the GOP - should have to pay!

I wish the BS Politics of Personal Destruction would ALL just end, on BOTH sides!

OMG, you're unbelieveable, easy. It's rather sad. DeLay deserved to go down, and I believe he will get caught either with the money laundering or something involved with Abramoff. Mah, I cannot wait to see that smirk on his face go bye bye. Anyway, the facts you spout off above are so false, I cannot beleive you would feel comfortable stating them. LMAO.

Look up Ronnie Earle. He has prosecuted I believe 15 politicians with 12 being democrats. Yeah, I'm sure he was out there bragging that he would get DeLay. You are too much. :2funny:
 
aps said:
OMG, you're unbelieveable, easy. It's rather sad. DeLay deserved to go down, and I believe he will get caught either with the money laundering or something involved with Abramoff. Mah, I cannot wait to see that smirk on his face go bye bye. Anyway, the facts you spout off above are so false, I cannot beleive you would feel comfortable stating them. LMAO.

Look up Ronnie Earle. He has prosecuted I believe 15 politicians with 12 being democrats. Yeah, I'm sure he was out there bragging that he would get DeLay. You are too much. :2funny:

Dude, the facts are 13 indictments before he could get one to stick, which shouldn't have been that hard because I agree with you that DeLay was doing stuff he shouldn't have! A judge has even ruled in DeLay's favor about how the case is to be run because he could even see the PERCEPTION of political motivation behind it. I can't believe YOU can not see those same facts about the case and claim there is NO political motivation behind it. I have no partisan rabid position here - as I said, i think both sides are dirty and playing stupid political games. I guess, unlike you, I can admit that.
 
aps said:
OMG, you're unbelieveable, easy. It's rather sad. DeLay deserved to go down, and I believe he will get caught either with the money laundering or something involved with Abramoff. Mah, I cannot wait to see that smirk on his face go bye bye. Anyway, the facts you spout off above are so false, I cannot beleive you would feel comfortable stating them. LMAO.

Look up Ronnie Earle. He has prosecuted I believe 15 politicians with 12 being democrats. Yeah, I'm sure he was out there bragging that he would get DeLay. You are too much. :2funny:

Actually, Earle's biggest case before the Delay case as a Texas Supreme Court Judge, Yarborough. He was a Democrat. Also, the Republicans pretty much took over Texas as a result of Democratic corruption here. Guess who exposed and prosecuted it? Earle.
 
easyt65 said:
Dude, the facts are 13 indictments before he could get one to stick, which shouldn't have been that hard because I agree with you that DeLay was doing stuff he shouldn't have! A judge has even ruled in DeLay's favor about how the case is to be run because he could even see the PERCEPTION of political motivation behind it. I can't believe YOU can not see those same facts about the case and claim there is NO political motivation behind it. I have no partisan rabid position here - as I said, i think both sides are dirty and playing stupid political games. I guess, unlike you, I can admit that.

I AM A DUDETTE, Dude. The judge they removed from the case had contributed to, I believe, moveon.org or some other organization that does not like DeLay. He should have been removed, as there is an appearance of impropriety. Do you care to point me to a website on Earl's attempting to get 13 indictments? I have never heard of that before.

It's not like Earle was going after a republican like John McCain, Lindsey Graham, and other well-respected republicans. DeLay was an indictment just waiting to happen. He goes on a golf trip, and Abramoff's credit card shows he paid for it? DeLay behavior was so obnoxious that I was sure he had done something illegal. Whether Earle's true motivation is partisan or not, I believe that DeLay is guilty of something. He is one republican that I cannot stand.
 
alphieb said:
Actually, no it is not just opinion. It is no more of an opinion then if I held up a convenient store at gun point and then admitted it. Would that be an opinion or would it be a crime? He did not have a court ordered or even the support from congress.

First, apologies for attributing your previous post to someone else.

"Admitted it"? Where on earth does that come from? Did we miss something here, like an admission of guilt? Last I heard, Bush still maintains that the NSA surveillance program was lawful. Or is it that we are now trying the 'guilty until proven innocent" approach?
 
aps said:
I AM A DUDETTE, Dude.
Sorry!

aps said:
The judge they removed from the case had contributed to, I believe, moveon.org or some other organization that does not like DeLay. He should have been removed, as there is an appearance of impropriety. Do you care to point me to a website on Earl's attempting to get 13 indictments? I have never heard of that before.
It was ALL over MSNBC, Fox, and the other media when this began. I would bother to dig through Google to get a link, but it is after 5, and I am going home in a minute. You obviously have a computer - YOU Google. And, BTW, Earle had also made contributions to the DNC, etc, further boosting at least the PERCEPTION of bias.

aps said:
It's not like Earle was going after a republican like John McCain, Lindsey Graham, and other well-respected republicans. He is one republican that I cannot stand.

Oh, so its ok as long as it isn't done to one of the 'big' GOP leaders or one YOU DON'T like?! Delay was the Majority Speaker, BTW - the GOP Leaders don't get much bigger than him in that position.

BTW, ask me tomorrow about a Lesser theory of mine about how the Democrats are systematically taking out the top GOP candidates. Through accusations and indictments, the Dems have taken out the majority Speaker before Delay, DeLay, have gone after Rove - the 'architecht of the DNC's defeat in 2000 AND 2004', and other of the strongest 'top' GOP leaders in contention for 2008. It is just a theory thrown out there for fun, but if you stare at it enough and look at some of the circumstances and facts out there, it starts to seem not so far-fetched. :shock:
 
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