Will Overtime Win Lead to Worker Loss[W:508:549]

[apdst]

Re: Will Overtime Win Lead to Worker Loss

Done.

Yeah, that's what I thought...lol!

 

[apdst]

Re: Will Overtime Win Lead to Worker Loss

Greetings, apdst. :2wave:

How would hospitals be impacted under something like this? I sure would not want a tired over-worked nurse setting up an IV or dispensing medication to anyone in my family!

Nurses get overtime already. I doubt this law would effect them.

 

[upsideguy]

Re: Will Overtime Win Lead to Worker Loss

This policy affects managers not hourly employees and what the business owner is going to do is take the salaried employee and make them hourly. You are going to get more hourly employees at lower pay

I understand it affects managers. It affects 3 to 5 of my people. This, however, is on top of another DoL ruling last year that affected my hourly workers. My industry was protected by an exemption that said I did not have to pay O/T, but I nonetheless did. Where I did have a problem was I had a number of "live-in" employees that were exempt from O/T. Under that ruling, what I could cover with 3 workers, I will now need 5 to 6.

In both cases, this is likely to be a job creator, not a job inhibitor. The work has to get done. Rather than pay o/t to get it done, I will just hire more people to work at straight time. What it does do, however, is drive me into a very tight labor market, as I need more help. That will likely mean I pay more for my employees..... which, in the end, its the DoL's intent.

 

[upsideguy]

Re: Will Overtime Win Lead to Worker Loss

It is not the role of government to dictate private sector compensation. Period. We need to get this guy to play more golf. He is determined to mess up everything he can during his last 6 months.

Its the role of government to ensure its citizens are not exploited

 

[faithful_servant]

Re: Will Overtime Win Lead to Worker Loss

Looks to me like a classic case of cognitive dissonance, since you initially claimed that there were rules and regulations that prevented salaried employees from being forced to work overtime without overtime pay...and that was the claim that both my references destroyed.

And I never said that being salaried did not mean that one couldn't be paid minimum wage - I SAID that that's precisely the kind of worker abuse that Obama's move is meant to fix - worker abuse in which salaried employees are forced to work so many hours that they're effectively getting paid less than minimum wage. Such worker-abuse practices are not just bad for the workers, but it's bad for the families and especially the children.

Ah, but I forget! Conservatives like yourself are all about family values, and making employees work so much overtime with no extra pay is just another form of protecting family values, huh? Yeah, since when did kids ever need a parent at home to supervise them and raise them?

NO, I said that there were laws in place that prevented salaried employees from working so many hours that they were paid less than MW, which was what the post I was replying to was claiming. CONTEXT!!!!

 

[ludin]

Re: Will Overtime Win Lead to Worker Loss

Debt is the engine of prosperity.

yet almost no one agree's with this.
hence the phrase the debtee is slave to the debtor.

 

[ludin]

Re: Will Overtime Win Lead to Worker Loss

And anyone who has ever gone into debt to start a business, get a house, a car... So essentially everybody, and remember, for one person to be without debt, another person is in debt. It's simply the nature of a world where the majority of money originates from commercial banks.

nope economy is not a zero sum game sorry.

 

[ashurbanipal]

Re: Will Overtime Win Lead to Worker Loss

These "new" rules are basically a roll-back of revisions to the overtime rules made in the Bush administration (well, an effective roll-back, not precisely the same, though). That earlier revision made it harder to get overtime pay. Businesses loved it, of course, because it meant they could work people longer and not pay them for the extra time. Before that revision went into place, the universe didn't explode or anything, so...

 

[winston53660]

Re: Will Overtime Win Lead to Worker Loss

yet almost no one agree's with this.
hence the phrase the debtee is slave to the debtor.

So who doesn"t agree with this?

 

[ludin]

Re: Will Overtime Win Lead to Worker Loss

Well the number is out so 47,476 (sounds like something they pulled from their rear end) is the new standard.
what does this means. people that were making 45 or so will probably get a 2500 raise.

which means costs are going up which means prices are going up which means you now pay more for what you use to.

people that are below that will make the same and be restricted from working overtime.
other people will be switched to hourly and have their pay cut and still restricted from over time unless
otherwise required.

again price increases on working people for no reason.

 

[ludin]

Re: Will Overtime Win Lead to Worker Loss

So who doesn"t agree with this?

pretty much every financial consultant that you will talk to will say pretty much most debt is bad.
there is very little debt that is actually good.

running up debt in general is not a good thing.

 

[winston53660]

Re: Will Overtime Win Lead to Worker Loss

pretty much every financial consultant that you will talk to will say pretty much most debt is bad.
there is very little debt that is actually good.

running up debt in general is not a good thing.

Yet every major corporation carries a debt load. For example:

General Electric has about $300 billion in debt on its balance sheet, but that's not going to keep this cash-flush company from asking for another helping. And that's especially true in the midst of an attractive lending environment.

When GE announced it would issue $3 billion in additional debt this week, investors clamored to get their hands on it. According to The Wall Street Journal's sources, the order book for GE's bonds and notes was oversubscribed within 45 minutes of opening, and the total requests for GE's debt reached $11 billion.

General Electric Company Boosts Debt by $3 Billion in "Opportunistic" Move -- The Motley Fool

 

[joG]

Re: Will Overtime Win Lead to Worker Loss

It is a zero sum gain, the employer will cut the employee hourly rate, to compensate for the expected overtime.

In the first period it might be a zero sum game. In following periods there will be strategy changes and actions taken to reoptimize business. This will for instance in crease capital spending to reduce the number of jobs affected by the measure.

 

[longview]

Re: Will Overtime Win Lead to Worker Loss

Coupled with a MASSIVE decrease in labor hours put in to make the same pay.


I suspect you are wrong.

If they had adjusted the pay with the original move to hourly, the employees would have seen
no change in overall pay, assuming they were working the hours.
By letting them "taste" the much higher original base salary plus overtime for a while,
and then taking it away, they will cause much discontent.
Depending how long the condition persisted, people could have harmed themselves by acquiring,
debt they now will be unable to pay.

 

[David_N]

Re: Will Overtime Win Lead to Worker Loss

yet almost no one agree's with this.
hence the phrase the debtee is slave to the debtor.

The world runs on debt.

 

[David_N]

Re: Will Overtime Win Lead to Worker Loss

nope economy is not a zero sum game sorry.

Never said it was. But for every person who is not in debt, someone else is. That's the nature of a world where governments can hold the liability/where banks create deposits.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Re: Will Overtime Win Lead to Worker Loss

So you think it's cool to take an entry-level worker making a salary - not an hourly wage, mind you, but a salary - of 30K per year, and force him to work 60 hours a week in order to keep that entry level job? Averaged out, that's less than minimum wage. THAT, sir, was the kind of worker abuse that this new rule will

1. Minimum Wage ($7.25 per Hour) * 60 hours per week * 52 weeks per year = $22,620.


2. Someone making $30,000 is making $9.62 per hour.





Assuming 2 weeks vacation though, which is either taken or paid out - then the numbers are $21,750 (#1) and $10.00 (#2).



>>>>

 

[cpwill]

Re: Will Overtime Win Lead to Worker Loss

No, it's NOT an "extreme example".

Yeah - a guy working 60 hour work weeks for $30K as a manager is a pretty extreme example.

When a worker making a near-poverty-level 30K

I've made less than 30K working 60 hour work weeks (or more) at various points in my life. It's not near-poverty level (though it isn't great, either).

The poverty level for an adult in the United States is $11,880. $30K isn't "near poverty level" unless you are the single breadwinner for a family with three children.

is forced to work overtime week after week just to keep his job, that's not "good business" - that's worker abuse.

Gosh. If only we had an economic system where workers could leave such employers at will.

And yeah, maybe YOU could just up and leave your job because you didn't like it...but that's not a real option for most people who have to fight like hell just to get a job, much less keep it, so they can stay off the dole. MOST people do whatever it takes to keep that job because once they leave it, they don't dare use that boss for a reference, and when they quit, they are not eligible for unemployment insurance... and so if they quit, how are they - and their kids - going to eat, much less pay the rent and the bills before they've got another job?

That's why you don't leave one job until you have the other lined up (I violated this rule once, but I was exiting the military from Japan, and it wasn't really feasible). If you've been a solid team member, then probably your boss will offer you additional incentives to stay (as a few of mine have done), or be happy to write you a reference. In a worst case scenario, they don't. :shrug:

People change jobs an average of about every 4.6 years, and they typically do so for better pay, a step-process that leaves older workers making more than younger ones as they build more skills and experience, and can therefore demand more on the market.

Well, you might say, all they have to do is make sure they've got another job already before they quit...but again, this isn't as easy as it sounds. Why? Because not only are you having to take time off to go to interviews (again and again and again), but those prospective new bosses really don't like not being able to talk to your current boss to find out what kind of worker you are...but if you DO let them talk to your current boss, then your current boss knows you're looking elsewhere and might well let you go anyway.

Maybe if you're single, all this is no big deal to you...but if you're married with children - and ESPECIALLY if you're the main (or sole) breadwinner - that's truly a bigger matter than you seem to think.

I have three children, and I am the sole breadwinner in my family (and always have been). In 2014 alone I changed employment 4 times.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Re: Will Overtime Win Lead to Worker Loss

Nurses get overtime already. I doubt this law would effect them.

Nurses, are under FLSA, fall under the "Learned Professional" exemption. This thread is about the "Administrative Exemption".

Not saying an employer cannot pay overtime to nurses, it may be because of company practice to retain good workers or union contracts requiring additional compensation for overtime. Just saying that FLSA does not require overtime for Nurses (this does not include LPN's which are a lower less qualified type of "Nurse").


https://www.dol.gov/whd/overtime/fs17n_nurses.pdf


>>>>

 

[fmw]

Re: Will Overtime Win Lead to Worker Loss

Its the role of government to ensure its citizens are not exploited

Heaven forbid. The role of government is to insure that its citizens are not attacked by foreign powers or exploited by government. For government to involve itself in private sector compensation is corrupt and dangerous.

 

[Conservative]

Re: Will Overtime Win Lead to Worker Loss

The world runs on debt.

So you don't have a problem with the 19.2 TRILLION in debt along with the 250 BILLION a year in debt service? Thought liberals wanted to help people in need. Who does that 250 BILLION in debt service help?

 

[David_N]

Re: Will Overtime Win Lead to Worker Loss

So you don't have a problem with the 19.2 TRILLION in debt along with the 250 BILLION a year in debt service? Thought liberals wanted to help people in need. Who does that 250 BILLION in debt service help?

No, why should I? It's a political choice to cut spending in relation to debt service. There's no real "debt problem."

 

[fmw]

Re: Will Overtime Win Lead to Worker Loss

Right? I mean child labor was awesome! WTF does the government think it's doing getting in there and dictating conditions and compensation?

My point exactly. What would child labor have to do with private sector compensation? I didn't talk about conditions. I talked about compensation.

 

[Conservative]

Re: Will Overtime Win Lead to Worker Loss

No, why should I? It's a political choice to cut spending in relation to debt service. There's no real "debt problem."

Got it, so you aren't paying any of that 250 billion a year in debt service. We have an 18 trillion dollar economy and 19.2 trillion dollar debt. Just goes to show how out of touch with reality the left is. It is indeed a political choice to buy votes thus driving up debt giving people "free stuff" yet there truly is nothing free, someone else pays for it and you don't have a problem with that?

 

[David_N]

Re: Will Overtime Win Lead to Worker Loss

Got it, so you aren't paying any of that 250 billion a year in debt service. We have an 18 trillion dollar economy and 19.2 trillion dollar debt. Just goes to show how out of touch with reality the left is. It is indeed a political choice to buy votes thus driving up debt giving people "free stuff" yet there truly is nothing free, someone else pays for it and you don't have a problem with that?

Got it, so you aren't paying any of that 250 billion a year in debt service.

The government (Consolidating fed + treasury) debits a reserve account and credits a securities account, reverse that when a bond matures.

We have an 18 trillion dollar economy and 19.2 trillion dollar debt.

And? The "debt" simply represents cumulative annual deficits/outstanding government bonds, which are a net financial asset of the private sector/foreign sectors.

Just goes to show how out of touch with reality the left is.

?

It is indeed a political choice to buy votes thus driving up debt giving people "free stuff" yet there truly is nothing free, someone else pays for it and you don't have a problem with that?

The recent stimulus, who paid for it, considering it went hand in hand with tax cuts? A government deficit results in an increase in net financial assets for the private sector.