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Will Governor Cuomo be held accountable for the deaths of thousands of nursing home deaths due to his negligence?

surfguy74

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My gut says no. And I will be surprised if the Biden DOJ launches an investigation now that it has been confirmed that the Cuomo Administration purposely withheld data on thousands of deaths for political reasons that would hurt the governor.
 
My gut says no. And I will be surprised if the Biden DOJ launches an investigation now that it has been confirmed that the Cuomo Administration purposely withheld data on thousands of deaths for political reasons that would hurt the governor.

This is AMerica, we don’t hold powerful people accountable for their actions.
 
My gut says no. And I will be surprised if the Biden DOJ launches an investigation now that it has been confirmed that the Cuomo Administration purposely withheld data on thousands of deaths for political reasons that would hurt the governor.
yea, like Hillary, Cuomo is making it easy for the right to lie about him. He withheld no data. NY counted hospital deaths as hospital deaths even if they came from nursing homes. and we know this precisely because the NY AG is investigating it.

"The word 'undercount' implies there are more total fatalities than have been reported; this is factually wrong," Zucker said. "The OAG's report is only referring to the count of people who were in nursing homes but transferred to hospitals and later died. The OAG suggests that all should be counted as nursing home deaths and not hospital deaths even though they died in hospitals."

 
My gut says no. And I will be surprised if the Biden DOJ launches an investigation now that it has been confirmed that the Cuomo Administration purposely withheld data on thousands of deaths for political reasons that would hurt the governor.
That's like asking if the governors of Texas, Georgia and Flordia will get investigated for their corruption and negligence.
 
Nah, people will defend his actions anyway and he'll be re elected.
 
yea, like Hillary, Cuomo is making it easy for the right to lie about him. He withheld no data. NY counted hospital deaths as hospital deaths even if they came from nursing homes. and we know this precisely because the NY AG is investigating it.

"The word 'undercount' implies there are more total fatalities than have been reported; this is factually wrong," Zucker said. "The OAG's report is only referring to the count of people who were in nursing homes but transferred to hospitals and later died. The OAG suggests that all should be counted as nursing home deaths and not hospital deaths even though they died in hospitals."

The problem isn't that the deaths weren't counted against the total, it's that the numbers were shifted to hide the ramifications of his policy forcing nursing homes to accept covid patients. And then, when the DOJ began to investigate, he and his staff members plotted how best to deceive the DOJ investigation to hide the truth. You're not arguing against the actual point people are upset about.
 
Cuomo's explanation was disgusting. He blamed virtually everyone else for the decisions he made which were the direct cause of 15,000 untimely deaths.

His press briefing was a perfect example of an elitist who fancies himself a king and above criticism.
 
The problem isn't that the deaths weren't counted against the total, it's that the numbers were shifted to hide the ramifications of his policy forcing nursing homes to accept covid patients. And then, when the DOJ began to investigate, he and his staff members plotted how best to deceive the DOJ investigation to hide the truth. You're not arguing against the actual point people are upset about.

Where should stable Covid positive patient have been located? They weren’t going home-they had no home? The hospital? The hospitals were already overwhelmed. The beach perhaps?
 
Where should stable Covid positive patient have been located? They weren’t going home-they had no home? The hospital? The hospitals were already overwhelmed. The beach perhaps?
The hospitals were not overwhelmed. There was real fear they would be, but they were not. There were temporary hospital facilities set up across the city, as well as the navy hospital ship to off load hospital patients; both went largely unused. There were several options available, even at the time, and Cuomo chose the worst one.

And then tried to cover up the effects of his orders during the investigation.
 
The hospitals were not overwhelmed. There was real fear they would be, but they were not. There were temporary hospital facilities set up across the city, as well as the navy hospital ship to off load hospital patients; both went largely unused. There were several options available, even at the time, and Cuomo chose the worst one.

And then tried to cover up the effects of his orders during the investigation.
The hospitals were overwhelmed.. the patients were stable and did not need hospital care. There were transported back to their homes. That's it.
And no..they could not send covid patients to the navy ships. In faculty the bureaucratic red tape made it difficult to transfer non covid patients.
 
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The hospitals were overwhelmed.. the patients were stable and did not need hospital care. There were transported back to their homes. That's it.
No, they were packed back into care facilities to infect the people that were most vulnerable, leading to more hospitalizations and needless deaths. Daily cases in April 2020 peak were half of what they peaked at in January 2021... With a hospital ship and temporary medical facilities across the city, there was no need at that time to send positive patients into nursing homes with the most vulnerable populations. Every effort should have been made to keep Covid OUT of nursing homes.
 
No, they were packed back into care facilities to infect the people that were most vulnerable, leading to more hospitalizations and needless deaths. Daily cases in April 2020 peak were half of what they peaked at in January 2021... With a hospital ship and temporary medical facilities across the city, there was no need at that time to send positive patients into nursing homes with the most vulnerable populations. Every effort should have been made to keep Covid OUT of nursing homes.
Nope..they were transferred back to their nursing home or to snf since they did not need acute care and were medically stable.
The hospital ship did not take covid patients . The hospital ship was designated for non covid only.
Other facilities were for acute patients needing acute care..not medically stable patients.
You realize that right now..today..thousands of covid patients are being transferred from the hospital..to snf/nursing homes . No doubt in your state.
 
No, they were packed back into care facilities to infect the people that were most vulnerable, leading to more hospitalizations and needless deaths. Daily cases in April 2020 peak were half of what they peaked at in January 2021... With a hospital ship and temporary medical facilities across the city, there was no need at that time to send positive patients into nursing homes with the most vulnerable populations. Every effort should have been made to keep Covid OUT of nursing homes.
Just a FWIW, don't use the hospital ships as a potential relief valve for COVID patients. The layout of the ships made them especially awful for a COVID treatment facility and to get admitted on the ships required that the patient be COVID negative. The other option was to make them COVID only, but that didn't happen. The ships were intended for non-COVID patients ONLY, so they wouldn't have to go to COVID infested ERs and hospitals in general at that time.
 
Just a FWIW, don't use the hospital ships as a potential relief valve for COVID patients. The layout of the ships made them especially awful for a COVID treatment facility and to get admitted on the ships required that the patient be COVID negative. The other option was to make them COVID only, but that didn't happen. The ships were intended for non-COVID patients ONLY, so they wouldn't have to go to COVID infested ERs and hospitals in general at that time.
Now now..lets not be confusing people with facts.
Isn't it amazing that many of the people who claimed covid was a hoax..it all going to go away..who don't have any concern about wearing masks or social distancing...
Are suddenly up in arms over nursing home deaths..? When it was there irresponsible behavior that brought about those deaths.
 
The hospitals were not overwhelmed. There was real fear they would be, but they were not. There were temporary hospital facilities set up across the city, as well as the navy hospital ship to off load hospital patients; both went largely unused. There were several options available, even at the time, and Cuomo chose the worst one.

And then tried to cover up the effects of his orders during the investigation.

The coverup was a mistake and he should be held fully accountable for it.
Stable patients do not belong in the hospital, which WERE overwhelmed-so much so that they were importing nurses from other states. The ancillary facilities were set up to receive non-Covid patients, but it was the Covid patients who overwhelmed the hospitals to the point that rationing care was being discussed. Not sure if it was implemented.


I don’t blame him for repatriating stable Covid patients; I blame him for not making sure they were safe when they were returned to their nursing homes, and for that he should be punished.
 
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Nope..they were transferred back to their nursing home or to snf since they did not need acute care and were medically stable.
The hospital ship did not take covid patients . The hospital ship was designated for non covid only.
Other facilities were for acute patients needing acute care..not medically stable patients.
You realize that right now..today..thousands of covid patients are being transferred from the hospital..to snf/nursing homes . No doubt in your state.

I am sure they are being transferred from acute care facilities to LTC facilities.
Let’s hope that others have learned from the mistakes others , including Cuomo, made in the process. It’s really criminal that LTC facilities didn’t have protocols to ensure the safety of the residents there. The death statistics in LTC facilities is staggering.
Cuomo had a lot of company. In my county fully 85% of deaths have occurred in such facilities.
 
Nope..they were transferred back to their nursing home or to snf since they did not need acute care and were medically stable.
The hospital ship did not take covid patients . The hospital ship was designated for non covid only.
Other facilities were for acute patients needing acute care..not medically stable patients.
You realize that right now..today..thousands of covid patients are being transferred from the hospital..to snf/nursing homes . No doubt in your state.
Again, no one needed to be transferred anywhere because hospitals were not overrun. Non covid patients could have been transferred out and covid patients transferred in if numbers had increased; instead they did the opposite, and then tried to cover up the effects of their policies when the DOJ investigated.

Actively sick Covid positive patients being sent to nursing homes against the wishes of the nursing home? Doubt it. It would be marginally more understandable now that nursing homes have been vaccinated, but since it's not happening, it doesn't really matter.

Defending Cuomo on this topic is clearly a losing battle.
 
Just a FWIW, don't use the hospital ships as a potential relief valve for COVID patients. The layout of the ships made them especially awful for a COVID treatment facility and to get admitted on the ships required that the patient be COVID negative. The other option was to make them COVID only, but that didn't happen. The ships were intended for non-COVID patients ONLY, so they wouldn't have to go to COVID infested ERs and hospitals in general at that time.
Yep. All true. And yet Cuomo chose to do neither. Much easier to infect and kill nursing home patients and staff than to treat them in the hospital and others in the ship or temporary facilities as needed.

And then try to cover it up when investigated by the DOJ.
 
Again, no one needed to be transferred anywhere because hospitals were not overrun. Non covid patients could have been transferred out and covid patients transferred in if numbers had increased; instead they did the opposite, and then tried to cover up the effects of their policies when the DOJ investigated.

Actively sick Covid positive patients being sent to nursing homes against the wishes of the nursing home? Doubt it. It would be marginally more understandable now that nursing homes have been vaccinated, but since it's not happening, it doesn't really matter.

Defending Cuomo on this topic is clearly a losing battle.

We aren’t defending the part of his actions for which he is culpable. Minimally ill Covid patients are cared for in LTC facilities all the time. Were you aware of that fact? They do not belong in the hospital. I sent you a link describing the hospital census situation in NYC. Did you bother to read it?
When hospitals have to import nurses from other states (yes, that actually happened in NYC; I know at least one who went there to help) and rationing of care is being discussed its not a walk in the park there. It is a fact that for a while NYC hospitals were overwhelmed, and I don’t debate facts.
It was the right move to repatriate LTC residents-but it was not done carefully enough.
Now once we have stipulated that acute care facilities are not the right place for any minimally ill patient we can debate what adequate consequences should be levied on Cuomo for the part of the debacle for which he IS culpable.
 
The coverup was a mistake and he should be held fully accountable for it.
Stable patients do not belong in the hospital, which WERE overwhelmed-so much so that they were importing nurses from other states. The ancillary facilities were set up to receive non-Covid patients, but it was the Covid patients who overwhelmed the hospitals to the point that rationing care was being discussed. Not sure if it was implemented.


I don’t blame him for repatriating stable Covid patients; I blame him for not making sure they were safe when they were returned to their nursing homes, and for that he should be punished.
Yes, in a perfect world where it was safe to house covid patients in nursing homes, there would not have been a problem. Unfortunately we don't live in that world, and certainly didn't in March 2020. Had NY hospitals actually been overrun and the Navy ship filled and the tent hospitals filled and care rationed, this decision might have been more justified. Since that wasn't the case, it wasn't. And that was known at the time, judging by the blow back he received and the eventual reversal of policy. And then to cover it up is just the icing on the cake.
 
Yes, in a perfect world where it was safe to house covid patients in nursing homes, there would not have been a problem. Unfortunately we don't live in that world, and certainly didn't in March 2020. Had NY hospitals actually been overrun and the Navy ship filled and the tent hospitals filled and care rationed, this decision might have been more justified. Since that wasn't the case, it wasn't. And that was known at the time, judging by the blow back he received and the eventual reversal of policy. And then to cover it up is just the icing on the cake.

I am not going to comment on the NYC hospital census again. You are wrong about it. Period. You do not keep pneumonia patients in the hospital until they are completely well, for example. They complete their recovery at home. Same with people with broken legs. And minimally ill Covid patients. Thats the way it works in real life.

For the failure to ensure the safety of repatriated LTC residents and for the subsequent coverup of the data what would be an appropriate penalty?
 
We aren’t defending the part of his actions for which he is culpable. Minimally ill Covid patients are cared for in LTC facilities all the time. Were you aware of that fact? They do not belong in the hospital. I sent you a link describing the hospital census situation in NYC. Did you bother to read it?
When hospitals have to import nurses from other states (yes, that actually happened in NYC; I know at least one who went there to help) and rationing of care is being discussed its not a walk in the park there. It is a fact that for a while NYC hospitals were overwhelmed, and I don’t debate facts.
It was the right move to repatriate LTC residents-but it was not done carefully enough.
Now once we have stipulated that acute care facilities are not the right place for any minimally ill patient we can debate what adequate consequences should be levied on Cuomo for the part of the debacle for which he IS culpable.
So care was not actually rationed? And the hospital ship and the Jarvis center were not actually utilized for more than a few patients? They moved covid positive patients into nursing homes to infect and kill others, but couldn't move them anywhere else, or move non covid patients to other locations? Of course they could, and that's why Cuomo reversed his order.

If something can't be done safely, then it shouldn't be done. And then covered up. And then defended by others.
 
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