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Will Biden be the first President who goes to jail?

Paradoxical said:
Extortion....threatening to illegally with hold aid unless the president gets rid of a prosecutor investigating his son who was making 83K a year for nothing.
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Why was it that Republican Senators, including Trump ally Ron Johnson, demanded the removal of the Ukrainian prosecutor? How about Rob Portman? Why did the EU demand his removal? Most of our allies? Do tell us. Everyone was covering for Hunter Biden's 83K job a year? Can we hear that directly from Senator Johnson?

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/03/poli...oed-biden-on-ukraine-reforms-kfile/index.html
 
Paradoxical said:
They didn't make their case, so the presidents side rested without witnesses. It's done all the time in court.

A moderator moved this to here. Not me
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Resting without calling witnesses is always the prerogative of the defense. From my perspective, however, if the President truly was operating on evidence and didn't commit an impeachable offense, calling witnesses to that effect would have presented a golden opportunity for him to make a case to that effect.

Denying the prosecution the ability to call witnesses of their own, however, is another kettle of fish. How can you deny them the witnesses they intended to call to prove their case and yet maintain that "they didn't make their case"??? That's what boggles my mind... it's like something you'd hear from Stalin's show-trials.
 
Paradoxical said:
I get what you’re saying now, people that say Biden is lying and people that say Trump outworks everybody are lying too.
Gotcha
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Nice try. I guess you realized your suggestion was dumb.

I agree.
 
Nickyjo said:
Mueller found insufficient evidence of conspiracy. He found plenty instances of obstruction. Ok, Trump U was before he was president. Big deal. Trump is still in apparent violation of the emoluments clause, has tried to enrich his businesses while in office by steering meetings to his properties, had the absurdity of Pence staying at a Trump property 180 miles from meetings he was to attend in Ireland, etc.

Trump seems to me to have no ethical sensibility at all, that he believes that rules do not apply to him. But tell me, how does knowing about this and stuff like the University and Foundation - in addition to his race baiting - shape your impression of Trump's character?
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Paradoxical said:
No proof of anything you say. Obstruction for a crime he was cleared of? LMAO
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Yes, obstruction can be charged in a crime you are cleared of. As the saying goes, it's not always the crime, but the cover up. And as to his University and Foundation, the proof is in the millions he had to pay in settlements and the shut down of both institutions. Face it, it doesn't mean he couldn't be a good president, but Trump is a crook and a low life.
 
Paradoxical said:
Diplomacy is knowing your son has a cushy job that you got for him making 83,000. a MONTH and having a prosecutor investigate that company and maybe putting it out of business, and threatening the president of Ukraine that if he doesn't fire him there will be no billion dollars and his country will be sunk??
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That's rich coming from a party who elected a man who set up his daughter and son in law with a cushy job both on his personal staff, who are profiting millions from there positions, noting the following:. Ivanka secured trademarks worth millions to hawk her stuff in china. of which one trademark is on a coffin ( great timing given Covid ) and Jared getting a cool half billion bailout from QATAR on a property that was about to force him in to bankruptcy, good to know your father in law is the prez.

Moreover, your premise has no evidence beyond the fact that Hunter got the job because his last name is Biden, and if you think that is a crime, it's not, and you'd be indicting just about everyone in Government whose children benefitted from their famous parent's surname. The issue is whether or not the parents are facilitating it, or benefiting personally from it. To date, there has been no evidence of that. Some have claimed Biden did talk to Hunter on matters he was involved in, but Hunter stated that such a thing might only happen if it become a news item, and even then, it wasn't anything that could rise to a level one might cal 'involvement.

What you are referring to is diplomacy. The issue is who benefits. In Trump's case, he benefitted, he was trying to get Zelensky to announce his government was investigating Biden ( even though he wasn't ) and in exchange for that act, he'd get the weapons and supplies he promised. Ultimately, Zelensky refused and, not wanting to stir the pop, stayed out of it, wasn't going to testify one way or the other ( because he didn't want state deparment to change their mind ), in Biden's case, he was forwarding the foreign policy of the United states, which had the backing of the State Dept, the president, the International Monetary Fund, and that of our ally nations.

You are obviously uninformed on these matters. Educate yourself

www.usatoday.com

Fact check: Biden leveraged $1B in aid to Ukraine to oust corrupt prosecutor, not to help his son

Despite a Senate GOP investigation that found no wrongdoing by Joe Biden on foreign policy in Ukraine, claims to the contrary continue to circulate.
www.usatoday.com
 
tres borrachos said:
Why was it that Republican Senators, including Trump ally Ron Johnson, demanded the removal of the Ukrainian prosecutor? How about Rob Portman? Why did the EU demand his removal? Most of our allies? Do tell us. Everyone was covering for Hunter Biden's 83K job a year? Can we hear that directly from Senator Johnson?

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/03/poli...oed-biden-on-ukraine-reforms-kfile/index.html
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Why isn't he in jail if he was corrupt? Have you bothered to read his sworn affidavit? The president of the Ukraine BEGGED him to resign so Ukraine could get the billion that Mafia Biden said he wouldn't get unless he fired the guy that was hot on the trail of the company his son was stealing 83K a year from as protection money to keep the investigation away from them.
 
Paradoxical said:
Why isn't he in jail if he was corrupt? Have you bothered to read his sworn affidavit? The president of the Ukraine BEGGED him to resign so Ukraine could get the billion that Mafia Biden said he wouldn't get unless he fired the guy that was hot on the trail of the company his son was stealing 83K a year from as protection money to keep the investigation away from them.
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Why isn't who in jail? The Ukrainian prosecutor? No idea why you asked me such a stupid question.

Were the Republican senators demanding his removal covering for Hunter Biden? You keep ignoring that. Answer the question. Why did Portman and Johnson demand his ouster?

Whose son was stealing money, and why isn't the thief in jail?
 
rahl said:
for what crime?
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The crime, if proven, would be using his position as VP to enrich his family (and possibly himself as well).

These are just some of the facts surrounding the issue.
a. Burisma Holdings Limited
On April 15, 2014, Burisma Holdings (Burisma), a Ukrainian private oil and gas company owned by corrupt Ukrainian oligarch Mykola Zlochevsky, sent two wires totaling $112,758.15 to Rosemont Seneca Bohai LLC. Rosemont Seneca Bohai is an apparent shell entity owned by Hunter Biden’s long-time business associate, Devon Archer, which was first registered in Delaware on Feb. 13, 2014.
According to Real Clear Politics, on the following day, April 16, 2014, Archer visited Vice President Biden at the White House. One week later, on April 22, 2014, Vice President Biden appeared with Ukrainian Prime Minister Arsemy Yasenyuk and addressed Ukrainian legislators in Kyiv regarding Russia’s actions in Crimea. That same day, Burisma announced that Archer had joined its board of directors. In the wake of Vice President Biden’s visit, the press described him as “the public face of the administration’s handling of Ukraine.”
The earliest payment from Burisma related to Hunter Biden appears to have been made to Boies, Schiller, and Flexner LLP (Boies Schiller), the Washington law firm where he was employed as a counsel in 2014. On May 7, 2014, mere weeks after Vice President Biden took lead of the Obama administration’s Ukraine policy, Burisma sent Boies Schiller a payment of $250,000. Approximately one week later, on May 12, 2014, Hunter Biden joined Archer on Burisma’s board of directors. Burisma made a second payment to Boies Schiller on Sept. 16, 2014, in the amount of $33,039.77. Both the May 7 and Sept.16 payments state in the transaction notes that they were “for Legal and Consulting Services.”
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https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/HSGAC_Finance_Report_FINAL.pdf
The conclusion of the committee (from the source above) was:
The records acquired by the Committees also show that Hunter Biden and his family were involved in a vast financial network that connected them to foreign nationals and foreign governments across the globe. Hunter Biden and Devon Archer, in particular, formed significant and consistent financial relationships with the corrupt oligarch Mykola Zlochevsky during their time working for Burisma, and their firms made millions of dollars from that association while Joe Biden was vice president and the public face of the Obama administration’s Ukraine policy. Rosemont Seneca Thornton, an investment firm co-founded by Hunter Biden, received $3.5 million in a wire transfer from Elena Baturina, who allegedly received illegal construction contracts from her husband, the then-mayor of Moscow. Moreover, Archer’s apparent receipt of money for a car from Kenges Rakishev of Kazakhstan while Vice President Biden was in Kyiv is especially concerning in light of the timing. And finally, Biden and Archer’s work with Chinese nationals connected to the Communist regime illustrate the deep financial connections that accelerated while Joe Biden was vice president and continued after he left office.
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With Joe Biden in the WH all of this will vanish. Biden cares more about protecting himself and family then he does about your family. That’s why he’s so desperate to win. Character is indeed on the line in this election but it’s not the character of this nation.
 
Cordelier said:
Resting without calling witnesses is always the prerogative of the defense. From my perspective, however, if the President truly was operating on evidence and didn't commit an impeachable offense, calling witnesses to that effect would have presented a golden opportunity for him to make a case to that effect.

Denying the prosecution the ability to call witnesses of their own, however, is another kettle of fish. How can you deny them the witnesses they intended to call to prove their case and yet maintain that "they didn't make their case"??? That's what boggles my mind... it's like something you'd hear from Stalin's show-trials.
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Why delay it and have them drag in more partisans? They put an end to the foolishness. Just look at what Viktor said in a sworn statement about his investigation and not a one of you believes him.
 
Lursa said:
Nice try. I guess you realized your suggestion was dumb.

I agree.
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Dumb only because you don't believe what those who work for Trump say about how many hours he works. That's what is really dumb.
 
Nickyjo said:
Yes, obstruction can be charged in a crime you are cleared of. As the saying goes, it's not always the crime, but the cover up. And as to his University and Foundation, the proof is in the millions he had to pay in settlements and the shut down of both institutions. Face it, it doesn't mean he couldn't be a good president, but Trump is a crook and a low life.
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So, lemme get this straight. He was covering up a crime he didnt commit and one that Hillary committed.

Gotcha.

17 wiped cell phones of the FBI tell the real truth.
 
OscarLevant said:
That's rich coming from a party who elected a man who set up his daughter and son in law with a cushy job both on his personal staff, who are profiting millions from there positions, noting the following:. Ivanka secured trademarks worth millions to hawk her stuff in china. of which one trademark is on a coffin ( great timing given Covid ) and Jared getting a cool half billion bailout from QATAR on a property that was about to force him in to bankruptcy, good to know your father in law is the prez.

Moreover, your premise has no evidence beyond the fact that Hunter got the job because his last name is Biden, and if you think that is a crime, it's not, and you'd be indicting just about everyone in Government whose children benefitted from their famous parent's surname. The issue is whether or not the parents are facilitating it, or benefiting personally from it. To date, there has been no evidence of that. Some have claimed Biden did talk to Hunter on matters he was involved in, but Hunter stated that such a thing might only happen if it become a news item, and even then, it wasn't anything that could rise to a level one might cal 'involvement.

What you are referring to is diplomacy. The issue is who benefits. In Trump's case, he benefitted, he was trying to get Zelensky to announce his government was investigating Biden ( even though he wasn't ) and in exchange for that act, he'd get the weapons and supplies he promised. Ultimately, Zelensky refused and, not wanting to stir the pop, stayed out of it, wasn't going to testify one way or the other ( because he didn't want state deparment to change their mind ), in Biden's case, he was forwarding the foreign policy of the United states, which had the backing of the State Dept, the president, the International Monetary Fund, and that of our ally nations.

You are obviously uninformed on these matters. Educate yourself

www.usatoday.com

Fact check: Biden leveraged $1B in aid to Ukraine to oust corrupt prosecutor, not to help his son

Despite a Senate GOP investigation that found no wrongdoing by Joe Biden on foreign policy in Ukraine, claims to the contrary continue to circulate.
www.usatoday.com
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Why isn't this "corrupt" prosecutor in jail?
 
tres borrachos said:
Why isn't who in jail? The Ukrainian prosecutor? No idea why you asked me such a stupid question.

Were the Republican senators demanding his removal covering for Hunter Biden? You keep ignoring that. Answer the question. Why did Portman and Johnson demand his ouster?

Whose son was stealing money, and why isn't the thief in jail?
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So, he was fired for corruption but he wasn't corrupt?

Gotcha.
 
Paradoxical said:
Dumb only because you don't believe what those who work for Trump say about how many hours he works. That's what is really dumb.
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You are absolutely right...they work for Trump...how stupid and self-serving they must be. To not realize that would be really dumb.
 
Paradoxical said:
So, lemme get this straight. He was covering up a crime he didnt commit and one that Hillary committed.

Gotcha.

17 wiped cell phones of the FBI tell the real truth.
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As I recall, Mueller’s report listed several instances of obstruction by Trump. If I trip a cop chasing after an innocent suspect, I still done wrong. And what does Hillary and whatever she did have to do with the investigation of Trump?
 
Paradoxical said:
Why delay it and have them drag in more partisans? They put an end to the foolishness. Just look at what Viktor said in a sworn statement about his investigation and not a one of you believes him.
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Partisans? The people the House investigators put on the stand were all Trump Administration officials. They were either career employees or they were political appointees of the President himself. If Shokin has a tale to tell that backs up the President, then by all means, the President's team could have called him to the stand. I would have loved to have seen that myself.

The question you need to ask yourself is this.... when President Trump called up President Zelensky and asked him to investigate the Bidens and meet with Rudy Guiliani for that purpose, was he doing it to further a formal criminal investigation? Or was it for opposition research?
 
Lursa said:
You are absolutely right...they work for Trump...how stupid and self-serving they must be. To not realize that would be really dumb.
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I suppose you'd believe those who DON'T work for Trump. Talk about dumb.
 
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