Why would any libertarian despise the Tea Parties?

[Josie]

The Tea Parties' foundational beliefs are smaller government, lower taxes and less spending. Why would any libertarian be against that?

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

The Tea Parties' foundational beliefs are smaller government, lower taxes and less spending. Why would any libertarian be against that?

I expect that many feel the Tea Party has a large number of Social conservatives, who would expand the role of the government in aspects of a persons social freedoms while expanding their economic ones

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

The Tea Parties' foundational beliefs are smaller government, lower taxes and less spending. Why would any libertarian be against that?

They are mostly temporary libertarians.
Once they find a freebie they like, all bets of small government are off.

 

[Josie]

I expect that many feel the Tea Party has a large number of Social conservatives, who would expand the role of the government in aspects of a persons social freedoms while expanding their economic ones

But that's not what the Tea Party is about. It's very simple: smaller government, lower taxes and less spending. What's not to love?

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

But that's not what the Tea Party is about. It's very simple: smaller government, lower taxes and less spending. What's not to love?

It may not be what the Tea Party is about but I bet many of its members or people who associate with it are.

Their are in my opinion very few true libertarians who feel the government should be out of peoples personal lives and their economic lives


Leftist libertarians would promote peoples social freedoms, while tending to expand government role in the economy

Social/Rightist libertarians promote less government involvement in the economy, but generally want the government to restrict personal freedoms on "moral issues"

Very few libertarians I believe support both aspects of less governemnt in the economy and in personal morality

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

It may not be what the Tea Party is about but I bet many of its members or people who associate with it are.

Their are in my opinion very few true libertarians who feel the government should be out of peoples personal lives and their economic lives


Leftist libertarians would promote peoples social freedoms, while tending to expand government role in the economy

Social/Rightist libertarians promote less government involvement in the economy, but generally want the government to restrict personal freedoms on "moral issues"

Very few libertarians I believe support both aspects of less governemnt in the economy and in personal morality

Leftist libertarian is an oxymoron.





and you are wrong, we believe in liberty, personal and economic.

 

[The Uncola]

It may not be what the Tea Party is about but I bet many of its members or people who associate with it are.

Their are in my opinion very few true libertarians who feel the government should be out of peoples personal lives and their economic lives


Leftist libertarians would promote peoples social freedoms, while tending to expand government role in the economy

Social/Rightist libertarians promote less government involvement in the economy, but generally want the government to restrict personal freedoms on "moral issues"

Very few libertarians I believe support both aspects of less governemnt in the economy and in personal morality

I have to agree and even take it a step further. Most of those now claiming to be "Libertarians" only believe in 'keeping gubmint outta our lives' when it's something they disagree with, but as soon as they want to impose their own brand of "morality" on everyone else, they immediately morph into Authoritarians.

There is a genuine and understandable anger behind much of what the hear from the rank and file of the Tea Party crowd. The real problem is that it is being deliberately misdirected by those who are manipulating the easily duped. The snakeoil salespeople who feed the hostility and use coded language to inspire threats and acts of violence, are in fact, the worst enemies of the very people they claim to represent.

Yesterday we had the dynamic duo "Do as I say, not as I do" of the "Tea Party" darlings, spewing their word salad trash talk about "less taxes" and "smaller gubmint" in our metro. How long has Caribou Barbie been cashing "gumint paychecks?" Did Crazy Lady Bachmann mention the 1/4 MILLION dollar$ she's taken in "gubmint subsidies" to the crowd?

And yet...

... the angry mob cheers them on. Proof that if you repeat the same lies enough times, you can find a bunch of fool that will believe you.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

I have to agree and even take it a step further. Most of those now claiming to be "Libertarians" only believe in 'keeping gubmint outta our lives' when it's something they disagree with, but as soon as they want to impose their own brand of "morality" on everyone else, they immediately morph into Authoritarians.

Wow, do you have some examples?


quote and link please.

There is a genuine and understandable anger behind much of what the hear from the rank and file of the Tea Party crowd. The real problem is that it is being deliberately misdirected by those who are manipulating the easily duped. The snakeoil salespeople who feed the hostility and use coded language to inspire threats and acts of violence, are in fact, the worst enemies of the very people they claim to represent.

Right, again quotes and links.

Yesterday we had the dynamic duo "Do as I say, not as I do" of the "Tea Party" darlings, spewing their word salad trash talk about "less taxes" and "smaller gubmint" in our metro. How long has Caribou Barbie been cashing "gumint paychecks?" Did Crazy Lady Bachmann mention the 1/4 MILLION dollar$ she's taken in "gubmint subsidies" to the crowd?

And yet...

... the angry mob cheers them on. Proof that if you repeat the same lies enough times, you can find a bunch of fool that will believe you.

Palin, is not the grass roots tea party movement. Sorry.

 

[Josie]

I like Paul Ryan more than Palin.

 

[Deuce]

Leftist libertarian is an oxymoron.





and you are wrong, we believe in liberty, personal and economic.

It's not an oxymoron. Social liberals (if that's the right word) have views that match libertarian values pretty well - keeping government out of our private lives.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

It's not an oxymoron. Social liberals (if that's the right word) have views that match libertarian values pretty well - keeping government out of our private lives.

liberty is not a pick and choose ideology. Sorry you can not separate economic from individual freedom....


It doesn't work like that.

 

[Deuce]

liberty is not a pick and choose ideology. Sorry you can not separate economic from individual freedom....


It doesn't work like that.

Sure I can and yes it does. Political philosophy is far more complicated than Left vs. Right.

 

[Kushinator]

Sure I can and yes it does. Political philosophy is far more complicated than Left vs. Right.

Correct. You must account for spillovers, externalities, etc.... AKA right infringement.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Sure I can and yes it does. Political philosophy is far more complicated than Left vs. Right.

You can, if you want to look foolish. :shrug:



All the pseudo hyphinated "libertarianism", is hidden liberal or anarchist bunk...


Its not a left or right thing, that's correct, its a freedom thing. :shrug:

 

[VanceMack]

It may not be what the Tea Party is about but I bet many of its members or people who associate with it are.

Their are in my opinion very few true libertarians who feel the government should be out of peoples personal lives and their economic lives


Leftist libertarians would promote peoples social freedoms, while tending to expand government role in the economy

Social/Rightist libertarians promote less government involvement in the economy, but generally want the government to restrict personal freedoms on "moral issues"

Very few libertarians I believe support both aspects of less governemnt in the economy and in personal morality

Id bet you were wrong. The majority have a pretty firm committment to both the reduced impact of the federal government AND the reduced involvement in individual life and morality choices. The poeple you talk about are simply disenfranchised republicans and democrats.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Correct. You must account for spillovers, externalities, etc.... AKA right infringement.

You are right. The devil is in the details. That's why its impossible to preserve any sort of pure ideology.

 

[lizzie]

The Tea Parties' foundational beliefs are smaller government, lower taxes and less spending. Why would any libertarian be against that?

Some who wear the libertarian lable do not really understand what it means. Some are young people who like the idea of "freedom", but they want the freedom to do as they please, while not having the responsiblity to live a truly free life. Others are people like myself who can handle the freedom and the responsibility that libertarianism requires (the ability to be self-determining, self-motivated, and let the chips fall where they may). Some libertarians like the ideology on an intellectual level but not at an emotional level. There's not a cut and dried answer to your question, but alot of Libertarians tend to be very independent and avoid following mass movements.
Just as you see a broad spectrum of ideas and beliefs among Democrats and Republicans, you will see this among Libertarians as well.

 

[liblady]

Id bet you were wrong. The majority have a pretty firm committment to both the reduced impact of the federal government AND the reduced involvement in individual life and morality choices. The poeple you talk about are simply disenfranchised republicans and democrats.

i'd bet not, actually. but how can either of us know?

 

[VanceMack]

i'd bet not, actually. but how can either of us know?

You can attend libertarian party meetings.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Some who wear the libertarian lable do not really understand what it means. Some are young people who like the idea of "freedom", but they want the freedom to do as they please, while not having the responsiblity to live a truly free life. Others are people like myself who can handle the freedom and the responsibility that libertarianism requires (the ability to be self-determining, self-motivated, and let the chips fall where they may). Some libertarians like the ideology on an intellectual level but not at an emotional level. There's not a cut and dried answer to your question, but alot of Libertarians tend to be very independent and avoid following mass movements.
Just as you see a broad spectrum of ideas and beliefs among Democrats and Republicans, you will see this among Libertarians as well.

note how you like I refer to ourselves however as "libertarian/conservative" As in two separate ideals. Personally I am very conservative, however I am very libertarian in my political beliefs....


It's not some sort of "conserv-libertarian" nonsense like left-libertarian, libertarian-socialist" or other some such nonsenese.... If these ideals infringe on my rights, its not libertarianism.

 

[lizzie]

note how you like I refer to ourselves however as "libertarian/conservative" As in two separate ideals. Personally I am very conservative, however I am very libertarian in my political beliefs....

Yep, that fits me to a T.
I support the rights of everyone to be however and whatever they want within a framework of laws to prevent mutual infringement of each others' rights. I support the right of people to be stupid, hateful, spiteful, and ignorant. I just expect that they should pay for their own problems.

 

[The Giant Noodle]

I 110% detest.... DETEST.... freakin' hate...... that Palin is involved. And I feel the republicans are trying to hijack the party. There seems to be much money being used from conservative orgs that support republicans. I actually posted a lot of the connections 2 months ago on another forum. I shall try to find them.

To me the Tea Party SHOULD be about this: The Free Enterprise Nation - our mission

 

[lizzie]

It's not an oxymoron. Social liberals (if that's the right word) have views that match libertarian values pretty well - keeping government out of our private lives.

The problem is that social liberals (the Democrat variety) also want government (ie those of us who pay taxes) to pay for the mistakes that people make. I'm all for keeping government out of my life, but I don't expect to have to pay for the poor free choices of others.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Leftist libertarian is an oxymoron.





and you are wrong, we believe in liberty, personal and economic.

liberty is not a pick and choose ideology. Sorry you can not separate economic from individual freedom....


It doesn't work like that.

Id bet you were wrong. The majority have a pretty firm committment to both the reduced impact of the federal government AND the reduced involvement in individual life and morality choices. The poeple you talk about are simply disenfranchised republicans and democrats.

How many Tea Party members/associates would be for the following

Legalizing all drugs from pot to cocaine. A true libertarian would want those things legalized

Perferable getting the government out of the marriage business, or at least allowing gay marriage

A social libertarian would not want the government to control a persons life based on the moral attitudes of the majority

I strongly doubt the majority of people associating with the Tea Party support the above. The majority might be truely economic libertarians (expect for the hypocritical ones who wants to keep the government out of their medicare

 

[VanceMack]

I 110% detest.... DETEST.... freakin' hate...... that Palin is involved. And I feel the republicans are trying to hijack the party. There seems to be much money being used from conservative orgs that support republicans. I actually posted a lot of the connections 2 months ago on another forum. I shall try to find them.

To me the Tea Party SHOULD be about this: The Free Enterprise Nation - our mission

Why are you upset? Hell...the Libertarians have been around for decades and consistently cant or wont field viable candidates. How much representation does the party actually have...ANYWHERE? Which 'tea party' candidates do you see? I may be wrong...but the tea party movement is just that...a movement...an offshoot of democrats, independents, and republicans who are all just disgusted with Washington DC in general.

The Tea Party movement is seeking validation and recognition. The dem party completely disavows it...who do you THINK is going to go after those votes?