why we know the 2A is an individual right[W:999]

[haymarket]

Re: why we know the 2A is an individual right

The 2nd amendment says nothing of militia service. You just made that up out of whole cloth. It does, however state that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

You perhaps need glasses? go back and read it again. Militia service is the justification for the second half of the sentence.

 

[haymarket]

Re: why we know the 2A is an individual right

there are no exclusions written into the text of the 2nd.


whoops, did your " it's not specified" argument just backfire on you again?... awww... i'm sowwwwy.

You make no sense. Exclusions? What in heavens name are you raving about?

 

[haymarket]

Re: why we know the 2A is an individual right

Congress does have the ability to regulate the military but that has nothing to do with the individual right to bear arms.

And where do I find that?

 

[Green Man]

Re: why we know the 2A is an individual right

You perhaps need glasses? go back and read it again. Militia service is the justification for the second half of the sentence.

Really, where does it say "militia service"? My copy of the 2nd amendment doesn't contain that phrase.

 

[cpgrad08]

Re: why we know the 2A is an individual right

And where do I find that?

The 2nd clearly states that ones right to bear arms was nothing to do with military/militia service.

 

[haymarket]

Re: why we know the 2A is an individual right

Really, where does it say "militia service"? My copy of the 2nd amendment doesn't contain that phrase.

It is clear and unmistakable from the obvious unambiguous language that the militia is what is being discussed in that single sentence.

 

[haymarket]

Re: why we know the 2A is an individual right

The 2nd clearly states that ones right to bear arms was nothing to do with military/militia service.

What part of the Second says that "clearly"?

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: why we know the 2A is an individual right

It is clear and unmistakable from the obvious unambiguous language that the militia is what is being discussed in that single sentence.

and that has nothing to do with the idiotic claims that the federal government was intended to have any ability to infringe, impede, obstruct, regulate, harass, or screw around with the natural right of citizens to be armed

 

[Green Man]

Re: why we know the 2A is an individual right

It is clear and unmistakable from the obvious unambiguous language that the militia is what is being discussed in that single sentence.

Yes, it says that a militia is necessary to the security of a free state. Everybody knows that this is true.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: why we know the 2A is an individual right

What part of the Second says that "clearly"?

the same part that says "shall not be infringed" actually means-infringements are ok or the dishonest claim that this statement:


To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;


somehow says that the congress can tell you what sort of firearms you can own in your home or carry with you as a private citizen

 

[haymarket]

Re: why we know the 2A is an individual right

and that has nothing to do with the idiotic claims that the federal government was intended to have any ability to infringe, impede, obstruct, regulate, harass, or screw around with the natural right of citizens to be armed

Your over the top hyperbolic exaggerations noted - there is not one thing in the Second which precludes any regulation as Article I Section 8 clauses 15 and 16 clearly empower Congress to do.

 

[Green Man]

Re: why we know the 2A is an individual right

and that has nothing to do with the idiotic claims that the federal government was intended to have any ability to infringe, impede, obstruct, regulate, harass, or screw around with the natural right of citizens to be armed

Clearly it may not. The 2nd amendment specifies that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

 

[cpgrad08]

Re: why we know the 2A is an individual right

What part of the Second says that "clearly"?

Don't play stupid ( I know a mountain of a challenge for you) please read the second half of the 2nd.

 

[Thrilla]

Re: why we know the 2A is an individual right

You make no sense. Exclusions? What in heavens name are you raving about?

you are arguing the right only extents to service in the militia.... i'm pointing out that there are no exclusions written into the amendment.

the operative clause of the Amendment forbids the federal government from infringing on the people's right to keep and bear arms.... and there are no exclusions to that protection written into the amendment.

 

[haymarket]

Re: why we know the 2A is an individual right

the same part that says "shall not be infringed" actually means-infringements are ok or the dishonest claim that this statement:


To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;


somehow says that the congress can tell you what sort of firearms you can own in your home or carry with you as a private citizen

Of course Congress can regulate firearms ownership. There is nothing in the Constitution to prevent them from doing so as long as the right int he Second can be exercised. And then and only then would the right be INFRINGED. Your modernist term - INFRINGEMENTS - meaning any teeny tiny incremental law on guns - is not and was never a part of the Second.

 

[haymarket]

Re: why we know the 2A is an individual right

you are arguing the right only extents to service in the militia.... i'm pointing out that there are no exclusions written into the amendment.

the operative clause of the Amendment forbids the federal government from infringing on the people's right to keep and bear arms.... and there are no exclusions to that protection written into the amendment.

The Second is but one single sentence. It does not need exclusions since the only right discussed is one to have a firearm for service in the militia.

 

[Thrilla]

Re: why we know the 2A is an individual right

Your over the top hyperbolic exaggerations noted - there is not one thing in the Second which precludes any regulation as Article I Section 8 clauses 15 and 16 clearly empower Congress to do.

any regulation that infringes on the peoples right to keep and bear arms is forbidden.

simply put, congress is not empowered to infringe on the RTKBA

stop making this so easy Hay...

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: why we know the 2A is an individual right

Your over the top hyperbolic exaggerations noted - there is not one thing in the Second which precludes any regulation as Article I Section 8 clauses 15 and 16 clearly empower Congress to do.

no honest person can read these clauses:


To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

and find any authority for congress to regulate or dictate what sort of arms a person can own when they are not on active duty

you are just grasping at straws in an effort to pretend that the Democrat party is not raping the 2A

 

[MACS-24]

Re: why we know the 2A is an individual right

By all means - do provide verifiable evidence of this claim. Lets see it.

World Cup celebration is now over so now I can provide it:

www.debatepolitics.com

 

[haymarket]

Re: why we know the 2A is an individual right

any regulation that infringes on the peoples right to keep and bear arms is forbidden.

Sadly for you - that is NOT what the Second says.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: why we know the 2A is an individual right

Of course Congress can regulate firearms ownership. There is nothing in the Constitution to prevent them from doing so as long as the right int he Second can be exercised. And then and only then would the right be INFRINGED. Your modernist term - INFRINGEMENTS - meaning any teeny tiny incremental law on guns - is not and was never a part of the Second.

another lie that did not exist until the scum bag FDR "created it"

there is no empowering authority in the constitution

you prove you don't understand the constitution


we don't have to prove that the government is forbidden from doing something-YOU HAVE TO PROVE it has the power to act

show me the language

and your pathetic claim that infringe means something other than to interfere with is specious. As we have noted and you have failed to understand is that people who believed in an inalienable natural right would not adopt an amendment recognizing that right with LIMITATIONS

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: why we know the 2A is an individual right

Sadly for you - that is NOT what the Second says.

it sure doesn't say the crap you pretend it does

 

[Thrilla]

Re: why we know the 2A is an individual right

The Second is but one single sentence. It does not need exclusions since the only right discussed is one to have a firearm for service in the militia.

nope.. "the peoples right to keep and bear arms" is the right being discussed... it's written right into it.. clear as day.

what right?.. to keep and bear arms
who holds this right?.. the people.

glad i could clear that up for you.

 

[haymarket]

Re: why we know the 2A is an individual right

no honest person can read these clauses:

Another great conceit of the far right - what you actually mean is that NOBODY WHO BELIEVES AS I DO SEES IT THAT WAY.

 

[haymarket]

Re: why we know the 2A is an individual right

nope.. "the peoples right to keep and bear arms" is the right being discussed... it's written right into it.. clear as day.

what right?.. to keep and bear arms
who holds this right?.. the people.

glad i could clear that up for you.

Nice attempt to pretend that the first half of the sentence does not exist. Chief Justice Jay would not be pleased.