Why We Can’t Trust Christians To Run ANYTHING.

[Josie]

Sorry but the numbers belie your wishful thinking.
In the end, it boils down to the fact that fundamentalist and evangelical communities have been conditioned in the last sixty years to flit from one massive manufactured moral panic to the next, and the next, and the next, and the next...lather, rinse, repeat.
It started with the "good ole fashioned" white supremacy of the Fifties, by the Eighties it morphed into terror over heavy metal music, then in the Nineties it was "Ritual Satanic Sexual Abuse McMartin Preschool style", complete with "recovered memories" and widespread accusations against innocent family members, and now it's moved into the John Bircher/Qanon/Fake Patriot/Stop the Steal panics.

It is pathetic to watch millions of people run around like little wind-up toys, but it's also incredibly dangerous
now, in the age of social media, which acts like a weaponized force multiplier and which is 100% open to
hostile foreign actors who seek to destabilize entire societies by weakening both critical thinking abilities and respect for democracy.

These ARE the faces of modern Christianity today.

View attachment 67365065View attachment 67365066View attachment 67365067

I laughed out loud. Not sorry.

The utter absurdity of this post.....

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I laughed out loud. Not sorry.

The utter absurdity of this post.....

Like you think I expect you to be sorry for not grasping reality...
Perhaps you've been lucky and haven't lived through these yourself.

My oldest brother was with a group of volunteers to help build outhouses for poor folk in W. VA in 1958, turned away because a third of the volunteer kids were black.
I watched friends and bandmates catch the piss from the heavy metal panic, losing work, losing jobs, and I lost two very dear friends to the Satanic Panic, first my dear Debbie accused her own family
of subjecting her to ritual satanic abuse, then she divorced her husband after accusing HIM of the same, and now both are dead, both from drug OD suicide. (at different times, first him, then her)



But not to worry Josie...you're a white Christian female, so you're safe...at least until you open the wrong book and a horde of fanatical whackos from
the local Even Jelly Kool church invades the next school board meeting in your area.

 

[Logicman]

Sorry but the numbers belie your wishful thinking.
In the end, it boils down to the fact that fundamentalist and evangelical communities have been conditioned in the last sixty years to flit from one massive manufactured moral panic to the next, and the next, and the next, and the next...lather, rinse, repeat.
It started with the "good ole fashioned" white supremacy of the Fifties, by the Eighties it morphed into terror over heavy metal music, then in the Nineties it was "Ritual Satanic Sexual Abuse McMartin Preschool style", complete with "recovered memories" and widespread accusations against innocent family members, and now it's moved into the John Bircher/Qanon/Fake Patriot/Stop the Steal panics.

It is pathetic to watch millions of people run around like little wind-up toys, but it's also incredibly dangerous
now, in the age of social media, which acts like a weaponized force multiplier and which is 100% open to
hostile foreign actors who seek to destabilize entire societies by weakening both critical thinking abilities and respect for democracy.

These ARE the faces of modern Christianity today.

View attachment 67365065View attachment 67365066View attachment 67365067

Ridiculous.

 

[Josie]

Like you think I expect you to be sorry for not grasping reality...
Perhaps you've been lucky and haven't lived through these yourself.

My oldest brother was with a group of volunteers to help build outhouses for poor folk in W. VA in 1958, turned away because a third of the volunteer kids were black.
I watched friends and bandmates catch the piss from the heavy metal panic, losing work, losing jobs, and I lost two very dear friends to the Satanic Panic, first my dear Debbie accused her own family
of subjecting her to ritual satanic abuse, then she divorced her husband after accusing HIM of the same, and now both are dead, both from drug OD suicide. (at different times, first him, then her)

View attachment 67365073

But not to worry Josie...you're a white Christian female, so you're safe...at least until you open the wrong book and a horde of fanatical whackos from
the local Even Jelly Kool church invades the next school board meeting in your area.

It's sad that you think this is "grasping reality". Fanatical cults aren't the norm or even close the majority of modern Christianity.

 

[bomberfox]

1. Prove Jesus is fictional.
2. The Jews killed their own prophets. It says so in their own Tanakh. That's antiSemitic? No.


Martin Luther is not Jesus, nor is antiSemitism in the Gospels. The following two paragraphs are from https://righterreport.com/2007/08/11/is-the-new-testament-anti-semitic/

"The New Testament should be viewed in the same light. Jesus was a Jew. His disciples were all Jews, and the majority of the New Testament authors were also Jewish. Did they really hate their own race of people, or can it reasonably be said that, like the Old Testament, the tensions in the New Testament are just simply more of the same intra-Jewish rivalries like we saw before? I think the evidence is clearly with the latter."

"Many cite the Gospel of John specifically as being anti-Semitic. Yet when the term “Jews” is used in a pejorative sense in John’s Gospel it is never directed toward the general populace, but towards the corrupt scribes, God-blasphemers, and ungodly Pharisees instead. In fact, contrary to being anti-Semitic, The Gospel of John presents the Israelites in a very positive light. From John Chapter 1 we read: “When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, ‘Here is a true Israelite, in whom there is nothing false.’”

You should also quote the tanakh when you make such claims.
The ADL disagrees. https://antisemitism.adl.org/deicide/

Ill take them over some blogger .

 

[bomberfox]

Jesus did come at the appointed time as the Messiah. Two separate chronologies in the following link agree on that. https://righterreport.com/2014/02/11/why-israel-missed-its-messiah/

Until he accomplishes such, no messiah. That is why most jews are still waiting . Until he completes the 4 criteria, he doesnt have authority.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

It's sad that you think this is "grasping reality". Fanatical cults aren't the norm or even close the majority of modern Christianity.

Sorry but this is where we disagree, fanatical cult BEHAVIOR IS now the norm...maybe didn't use to be but thanks to the force multiplier effect of social media, the donations POURING IN from anti-vax RW groups, and finally, extreme PRESSURE, that IS what modern churchies are preaching about today.

Maybe not at YOUR church, and if not, that's a relief.
But just because you're lucky enough to belong to a relatively small neighborhood congregation doesn't mean it's not happening, it's happening in the LARGEST and WEALTHIEST churches.

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

It's sad that you think this is "grasping reality". Fanatical cults aren't the norm or even close the majority of modern Christianity.

But just to be clear, the non-fanatical cult versions of modern Christianity do still welcome the End of Days when Jesus will lead his armies, his robe soaked in blood, to strike down the nations and rule with an Iron Scepter right?

 

[Josie]

Sorry but this is where we disagree, fanatical cult BEHAVIOR IS now the norm...maybe didn't use to be but thanks to the force multiplier effect of social media, the donations POURING IN from anti-vax RW groups, and finally, extreme PRESSURE, that IS what modern churchies are preaching about today.

Maybe not at YOUR church, and if not, that's a relief.
But just because you're lucky enough to belong to a relatively small neighborhood congregation doesn't mean it's not happening, it's happening in the LARGEST and WEALTHIEST churches.

You know next-to-nothing about me and, apparently, modern Christianity.

 

[Josie]

But just to be clear, the non-fanatical cult versions of modern Christianity do still welcome the End of Days when Jesus will lead his armies, his robe soaked in blood, to strike down the nations and rule with an Iron Scepter right?

Yes, modern Christianity, by and large, believes in John's Revelation. There are differing opinions on what the metaphorical text truly means.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

You know next-to-nothing about me and, apparently, modern Christianity.

You're RIGHT!
I know LESS than "next to nothing" about you, which is why I specifically said:

Maybe not at YOUR church, and if not, that's a relief.

Now consider the notion that YOU know next to nothing about MY life experiences with Christianity.
By the way, since you're not a theologian, or a pastor, or a member of church laity, or a university accredited degree holder in religious studies (or ARE you???) then you know about as much about it as I do.
What I do know about modern Christianity is what I observe in the behavior of modern Christians.
Thirty percent of Americans have done away with any affiliation with organized religion altogether...that number is now growing exponentially AS YOU sneer.

So...keep sneering.
I'll just sit here and watch the hemorrhaging continue.
You're more than welcome to have the last word

 

[bomberfox]

You must be a liberal...

It's not the end of the age yet when Jesus returns. Nice try, though.

Im a proud liberal, you can thank us for most rights you have

 

[bomberfox]

Jesus did come at the appointed time as the Messiah. Two separate chronologies in the following link agree on that. https://righterreport.com/2014/02/11/why-israel-missed-its-messiah/

He did not accomplish what the prophesy foretold, no messiah. By the by, i wish we had an actual rabbi in here.

 

[bomberfox]

The myth that Jews collectively murdered Jesus, also referred to as “deicide,” has been used to justify violence against Jews for centuries. Historians as well as Christian leaders have agreed that the claim is baseless.

Antisemitism Uncovered: Myth – Jews Killed Jesus

The myth that Jews collectively murdered Jesus, also referred to as “deicide,” has been used to justify violence against Jews for centuries.

antisemitism.adl.org

 

[Felis Leo]

"I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:

King of Kings and Lord of Lords." - Revelation 19:11-16

When Jesus leads the armies of heaven in a war to strike down the United States and rule with an Iron Scepter, which side will you be on? Will you side with your nation? Or will you side with the invading host that will strike your nation down?

That is kind of silly, AConcernedCitizen. Because if you are taking Christian belief or at the very least scripture seriously (as you seem to be), Jesus leads the Host of Heaven in the service of a God who literally created the universe. A being who is all-powerful, all-knowing and from whence all life, thought and morality springs.

If one believes in Christian Eschatology, to contend against the forces of Heaven would be like a confederation of gnats taking on the might of nuclear weapons. Utterly farcical. What is more, it is the height of evil to knowingly stand against God, because he is the fountainhead of morality, and because God is omnibenevolent, anyone his forces would strike down are themselves evil. Any nation struck down by God is evil. Any individual struck down by God is evil. Oh, and when you lose and are smote? You shall be consigned to eternal torment in the fires of Hell for being so evil.

If you are for but a moment to take Christian scripture seriously, how could anyone (much less a believing Christian) be expected to (1) side with objective evil against (2) the all-powerful, all-knowing, all-good creator of the universe, to (3) inevitably lose (again, he is all-powerful), and (4) be burned in Hell for all eternity? Why would anyone sign up to fight against beings who can annihilate nations merely with their spoken word, and who can keep you in stasis forever torturing you after you physical body has died for daring to stand against them?

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

That is kind of silly, AConcernedCitizen. Because if you are taking Christian belief or at the very least scripture seriously (as you seem to be), Jesus leads the Host of Heaven in the service of a God who literally created the universe. A being who is all-powerful, all-knowing and from whence all life, thought and morality springs.

I take it seriously only insofar as I know that others take it seriously. And I take seriously how such belief might affect their actions. I am not so concerned with any actual deity bringing about the End of Days as I am with humans who see it as their duty to help bring about the End of Days on behalf of the Lord of Hosts.

If one believes in Christian Eschatology, to contend against the forces of Heaven would be like a confederation of gnats taking on the might of nuclear weapons. Utterly farcical.

Makes one wonder why Lucifer and an entire third of the angelic host would do so. Outnumbered two to one against the armies of Heaven and against an all-powerful God. I can't imagine that they fought with any hope of victory. What then did they fight for?

What is more, it is the height of evil to knowingly stand against God, because he is the fountainhead of morality, and because God is omnibenevolent, anyone his forces would strike down are themselves evil. Any nation struck down by God is evil. Any individual struck down by God is evil. Oh, and when you lose and are smote? You shall be consigned to eternal torment in the fires of Hell for being so evil.

According to scripture, he is a jealous God, punishing the children for the trespasses of their parents to the 3rd and 4th generation.* He orders those who follow him to stab children and infants to death in revenge for things their ancestors did centuries earlier.** "The fountainhead of morality" certainly is a catchy title though.

If you are for but a moment to take Christian scripture seriously, how could anyone (much less a believing Christian) be expected to (1) side with objective evil against (2) the all-powerful, all-knowing, all-good creator of the universe, to (3) inevitably lose (again, he is all-powerful), and (4) be burned in Hell for all eternity? Why would anyone sign up to fight against beings who can annihilate nations merely with their spoken word, and who can keep you in stasis forever torturing you after you physical body has died for daring to stand against them?

I don't expect them to. I expect them to be ready to stab a little baby to death if the Spirit commands it of them. I expect them to do all they can to help usher in the apocalypse and the inevitable reign of Jesus Christ over all the Earth. I just don't find those traits particularly inspiring of confidence for people in positions of power.

*Exodus 20:5
**1 Samuel 15:3

 

[Logicman]

He did not accomplish what the prophesy foretold, no messiah

Wrong. The remainder will be fulfilled at the 2nd Coming.

. By the by, i wish we had an actual rabbi in here.

The best one on earth is Messianic Rabbi Dr. Michael L. Brown who shoots down lame objections like yours.

 

[Logicman]

Im a proud liberal, you can thank us for most rights you have

Ha. Liberals don't even like the founding fathers or the Constitution.

 

[Logicman]

You should also quote the tanakh when you make such claims.
The ADL disagrees. https://antisemitism.adl.org/deicide/

Ill take them over some blogger .

Ha again. Pilate found no guilt in Jesus (Luke 23:4).

What happened then? From Luke 23:

13 Pilate called together the chief priests, the rulers and the people, 14 and said to them, “You brought me this man as one who was inciting the people to rebellion. I have examined him in your presence and have found no basis for your charges against him. 15 Neither has Herod, for he sent him back to us; as you can see, he has done nothing to deserve death. 16 Therefore, I will punish him and then release him.”

18 But the whole crowd shouted, “Away with this man! Release Barabbas to us!” 19 (Barabbas had been thrown into prison for an insurrection in the city, and for murder.)

20 Wanting to release Jesus, Pilate appealed to them again. 21 But they kept shouting, “Crucify him! Crucify him!”

22 For the third time he spoke to them: “Why? What crime has this man committed? I have found in him no grounds for the death penalty. Therefore I will have him punished and then release him.”

23 But with loud shouts they insistently demanded that he be crucified, and their shouts prevailed. 24 So Pilate decided to grant their demand. 25 He released the man who had been thrown into prison for insurrection and murder, the one they asked for, and surrendered Jesus to their will.

 

[Logicman]

According to scripture, he is a jealous God, punishing the children for the trespasses of their parents to the 3rd and 4th generation.* Exodus 20:5.

You missed something important. Here's Exodus 20:5 -

"You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me"

"Still, the penalty upon the children is not final or irreversible. Under whatever disadvantages they are born, they may struggle against them, and lead good lives, and place themselves, even in this world, on a level with those who were born under every favourable circumstance. It is needless to say that, as respects another world, their parents’ iniquities will not be visited on them. “Each man will bear his own burthen.” The soul that sinneth, it shall die. “The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him” (Ezekiel 18:20)." https://biblehub.com/commentaries/exodus/20-5.htm

 

[Logicman]

To Bomberfox:

The exhaustive five volume work noted above - "Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus" by renowned Messianic scholar Dr. Michael L. Brown - covers the following topics and is available on Amazon:

Volume 1 – General and Historical Objections
Volume 2 – Theological Objections
Volume 3 – Objections to Messianic Prophecy
Volume 4 – New Testament Objections
Volume 5 – Traditional Jewish Objections

I've got 4 of the 5, which is why you're having such a miserable time trying to make your sophomoric objections work.

 

[bomberfox]

Wrong. The remainder will be fulfilled at the 2nd Coming.



The best one on earth is Messianic Rabbi Dr. Michael L. Brown who shoots down lame objections like yours.

View attachment 67365091

Until such is fulfilled no messiah.

 

[bomberfox]

We only have accounts from translations through three languages many decades after Jesus’ supposed death, Pilate’s actions are only described in the bible but not verified via extra biblical texts, the testimonium flavinium that we have today have many false accounts (since we have interpretations from others) https://www.researchgate.net/public...His_Testimony_Concerning_the_Historical_Jesus
It is likely that later christian scholars inserted extras into Tacitus’ account of jesus to fill in gaps.

JOSEPHUS AND TACITUS ON CHRIST on JSTOR

A. Kampmeier, JOSEPHUS AND TACITUS ON CHRIST, The Monist, Vol. 21, No. 1 (JANUARY, 1911), pp. 109-119

www.jstor.org

 

[Logicman]

Until such is fulfilled no messiah.

You haven't learned a thing, have you? That's ok. Skeptics of Christianity here in the DP forums never do - at least I've never seen one admit he or she was wrong on anything related to Jesus. But then most of them are liberals too, who are largely history-challenged.

 

[Logicman]

We only have accounts from translations through three languages many decades after Jesus’ supposed death, Pilate’s actions are only described in the bible but not verified via extra biblical texts, the testimonium flavinium that we have today have many false accounts (since we have interpretations from others) https://www.researchgate.net/public...His_Testimony_Concerning_the_Historical_Jesus
It is likely that later christian scholars inserted extras into Tacitus’ account of jesus to fill in gaps.

JOSEPHUS AND TACITUS ON CHRIST on JSTOR

A. Kampmeier, JOSEPHUS AND TACITUS ON CHRIST, The Monist, Vol. 21, No. 1 (JANUARY, 1911), pp. 109-119

www.jstor.org

"And the expression, “They pierced my hands and my feet,” was used in reference to the nails of the cross which were fixed in his hands and feet. And after he was crucified, they cast lots upon his vesture, and they that crucified him parted it among them. And that these things did happen you can ascertain in the “Acts” of Pontius Pilate" – Justin Martyr, First Apology, XXXV. Later in the same work Justin lists several healing miracles and asserts, “And that he did these things, you can learn from the Acts of Pontius Pilate.”

Pete Righter

Christian conservative.

righterreport.com

And from the same linked article: "By the way, there have been occasional skeptics who have claimed that Pontius Pilate never existed. To their chagrin archaeologists excavating the ruins of the “Theater at Caesarea” in 1963 found a Latin inscription that named “Pontius Pilate, Prefect of Judea.”

Next,

A few probable interpolations in the testimonium flavinium, but authentic passages in it as well.

Josephus’ Testimony of Christ: Evidence for Authenticity - Truth Watchers

Josephus' Testimonium Flavianum is purposed as enitrely authentic based on the context depicting sarcasm in a deragatory rhetorical devise attacking Christ.

truthwatchers.com