Why Terrorist are angry with America!

[nefarious_plot]

Very true and further down in the same article:
Hitler did have plans to incorporate all German-speaking regions into his empire (including 70% of Switzerland) and to integrate the rest of Switzerland (french and italian speaking areas) into France and Italy respectively
http://history-switzerland.geschichte-schweiz.ch/switzerland-second-world-war-ii.html

It appears that being neutral made little difference to Hitler in the long run

Specualtion on his plans meant what? There were no troops i sweeden nor occupation of Sweeden.

 

[nefarious_plot]

How is ww2 relevant to anything?

 

[Kelzie]

How is ww2 relevant to anything?

I don't know....It was at some point I'm sure.

 

[nefarious_plot]

Americans get little education on the war. The propagada machine gts them facinatged with it. Its macabe. And then every potlical situation is compared to it and its never accuate. A different time and totaly different situation.

 

[MSgt]

People in ALL countries receive selected information through the media (usually bad news, because that is what sells) and are widely not educated on wars that they do not participate in.

 

[kal-el]

Originally posted by GySgt
During World War II, Switzerland was not actually attacked. Occasional incidents were absolutely insignificant in view of the dimensions of the Second World War.

Exactly. Violence leads to more violence, as pacifism spreads like a fever, and eventually everyone catches it.

 

[cnredd]

Exactly. Violence leads to more violence, as pacifism spreads like a fever, and eventually everyone catches it.

Contrary to popular belief, there are many instances of violence leading to peace...for an immediate example, look no further than Hiroshima & Nagasaki...

There are probably even MORE instances where just the THREAT of violence halted violence...Ask Teddy Roosevelt what kind of "stick" he was carrying...

The answer, sometimes, is, "Will violence NOW halt a larger violence LATER"?
We can easily look back at WWII and think that if America showed up a couple of years earlier, millions of lives would have been saved...

War machines only work when the enemies of it stop it before it gets so large that it overpowers you....

All you have to do is understand when Radical Islam started the war against Western Civilization('70s...maybe earlier) as compared to when Western Civilization started to retaliate against Radical Islam(After 2000)...everything we did beforehand was just ticky-tack and gestures...

Every violent event created by Radical Islam that was poo-poo'd away by Western governments gave the Radicals reason to believe that they could do even more violence with impunity...and the cycle of death, followed by apathy, continued to where we are today...

If you let a child hit their younger sibling instead of stopping it the very first time, those hits will continue...and continue to get harder...until it comes to a point where the younger sibling gets seriously injured...

This should have been "nipped in the bud" years ago....

So continue to believe that if we provide flowers and happy smiley faces that the world will change...We'll see you in the obituaries....

 

[FinnMacCool]

Hiroshima is a really bad example. . .that should never have happened. It doesn't matter if it saved american soldiers lives, you are supposed to win a war honorably and that was not an honorable victory. In fact, it was just plain horrible. People in Japan are still dying from the effects of that atomic bomb.

Besides, nobody is denying that violence isn't an affective way to solve problems. In fact, violence has probably solved the most problems in human history. However, there are always alternatives to violence and my belief is that if we keep a strong defense but try for peace, we will sometimes succeed.

And violence doesn't prevent more violence. Violence is just violence and if your not going to take part in that fighting then its going to happen to you, as you said. But then taking part in it is still violence and your going to get killed and so will your enemy. And then when everythings over and done with, there will be more violence. Its impossible to solve violence with violence.

After Osama is dead, Al Qaeda is dead, Iraq has a new government, and we have invaded Iran, do you think there will be peace? No?

So continue to believe that if we provide flowers and happy smiley faces that the world will change...We'll see you in the obituaries....

Maybe I'll be dead but you certainly will be.

 

[kal-el]

If we indeed want a peaceful world, we must refrain from violent behavior. Violence causes more violence. Look at all the violence in Iraq now. Your saying that violent behavior is always justified, as long as the end is a cause of peace.No! violence is never justified. Violence just keeps snowballing, and when we step in and get involved, we are morally binded to carry on more. Again, look at Iraq, we have to kill more civilians in order to justify that we indeed we right in the first place. In all actuality, it takes infinitely more intelligence not to invade in the first place. If your neighbor were to hit you, you would rightly take him to court. So why is this ok for an adult and not a child? On the contrary, the child bully should be punished even more so he understands once and for all there is no way he can get what he wants with force. If not, he will slowly gravitate towards delinquency and finally, crime. All the violence that is poisining the neighborhoods around the big cities saps its nourishment from the over-tolerant school system that lets bullys get away with it.

Any threat of violence should be punished as severley as the act itself, because to threaten means that the person has already aknowledged that they will resort to violence as a way of getting what they desire.

 

[FinnMacCool]

Superman, I think you said it better then myself.

 

[MSgt]

"If we indeed want a peaceful world, we must refrain from violent behavior."

This is the dumbest crap I've heard you all say yet. I have an idea....Why don't you run for President, disarm America, and then tell the Middle East to do the same. If they disagree with your insightful wisdom, we'll go to plan B....we'll ask them again. In the end, I guess we will have the last laugh, because as they roll through Israel and slaughter Isrealites and trek across northern Africa and slaughter millions more of Christians we can sit back and point about how evil they are and how much better we are because we refrain from violence.

I got news for you...your perfect world does not exist. None of our efforts around the globe are perfect. There will always be mundane day-to-day details that liberals and pacifists will feed off of. These same individuals are also the same ones that remain silent in the face of true tyrany throughout the world until America steps in to do something. Reality has no weight for the ideologues who cannot live without the conviction that only the United States is ever guilty. There will always be wars and three types of people. The oppressors, the liberators, and the ones that stand smugly on the side line not understanding enough to choose a side or simply not caring enough, but yell “peace” through the duration as an attempt to sooth their individual inadequacies to face aggressors.

 

[kal-el]

"If we indeed want a peaceful world, we must refrain from violent behavior."

This is the dumbest crap I've heard you all say yet. I have an idea....Why don't you run for President, disarm America, and then tell the Middle East to do the same. If they disagree with your insightful wisdom, we'll go to plan B....we'll ask them again. In the end, I guess we will have the last laugh, because as they roll through Israel and slaughter Isrealites and trek across northern Africa and slaughter millions more of Christians we can sit back and point about how evil they are and how much better we are because we refrain from violence.

I got news for you...your perfect world does not exist. None of our efforts around the globe are perfect. There will always be mundane day-to-day details that liberals and pacifists will feed off of. These same individuals are also the same ones that remain silent in the face of true tyrany throughout the world until America steps in to do something. Reality has no weight for the ideologues who cannot live without the conviction that only the United States is ever guilty. There will always be wars and three types of people. The oppressors, the liberators, and the ones that stand smugly on the side line not understanding enough to choose a side or simply not caring enough, but yell “peace” through the duration as an attempt to sooth their individual inadequacies to face aggressors.

Ah man, you are too caught up in this violent reasoning. Some people say "might is right", or "only the strong survive", that is total BS. That attitude opens up the foundations of violence, in turn, creating a terribly confused world and mixed-up thought process that is preparing the youth to be even more barbaric than we are. The next generation promises to be horrifyingly unbalanced because for them having grown up seeing it everyday, violence will seem ordinary.

If our history books would have been written right, they would have hundreds of pages on Ghandi, Buddha, and Jesus, and they would mention all the people who worked for peace, who devoted their lives to increasing understanding between different races, tribes, and of course individuals. They would only have a couple or a single page on the crimes of Napolean, Julius Casear, and Hitler. Unfortunately, this is not the case. These criminals are all portrayed as heroes. They are all seen as heroes, except the little fact that their heroism is based on violence and only violence.

 

[VTA]

If our history books would have been written right, they would have hundreds of pages on Ghandi, Buddha, and Jesus, and they would mention all the people who worked for peace, who devoted their lives to increasing understanding between different races, tribes, and of course individuals...

That is an awesome paragraph. Unfortunately, people tend to gravitate toward the 'tragedies'...

violence will seem ordinary

It already is.

 

[FinnMacCool]

Who said anything about disarming ourselves? We need weapons in case we are attacked but I don't think attacking other countries is in our best interests. Be prepared for war but not actually attack someone is the way to go I think.

 

[MSgt]

"That attitude opens up the foundations of violence, in turn, creating a terribly confused world and mixed-up thought process that is preparing the youth to be even more barbaric than we are. The next generation promises to be horrifyingly unbalanced because for them having grown up seeing it everyday, violence will seem ordinary."

Here's another news flash....it's already ordinary. Violence and barbarism through "sanctioned" religion has thrived in the Middle East for a long time and our taking out Saddam had nothing to do with it. Those people can't even stop hating each other long enough to unite and fight us "infidels" properly. Instead they send out martyrs to murder civilians. In their perverted defiance to American presence in Iraq, they murder their own Muslims. These are the people you are trying to defend as American "victims?"....more like Islamic victims.

 

[MSgt]

Who said anything about disarming ourselves? We need weapons in case we are attacked but I don't think attacking other countries is in our best interests. Be prepared for war but not actually attack someone is the way to go I think.

Do you mean when our embassies are attacked or when our Naval vessels are attacked or when our troops are attacked on peace missions? But, those were just military deatyhs and didn't matter throughout the 90's. How about when our civilian aircrafts are skyjacked and crashed? Would kidnapping civilian diplomats be an attack? Or does being attacked only apply to when civilians on our own soil are attacked? Apparently, that isn't even enough. These criminals attack us the only way they can. Through our civilians who cannot protect themselves as they travel around the world. Now they have proven that they can do it over our own country. What kind of an attack would you deem worthy for a retaliation against the Middle East fanatics who are born, reside, and train in all of their countries? Perhaps a nuclear attack? Maybe we should wait and do nothing and allow Iran to get nukes and threaten us with those. It's certainly what Europe will do if they are left to deal with it.

 

[FinnMacCool]

Yeah I'm waiting for the nuclear strike. . .

Maybe if we didn't **** with them in the first place they wouldn't **** with us? I wonder if terrorists have fanatical hatred of us for no reason. . .

And we did respond to 9/11. . .when we invaded Afghanistan. But Osama still got away.

 

[MSgt]

Bin Ladden didn't get away. He's trapped. What simple thinking you have. Sometimes I forget how old you are until you make statements like this. The Taliban and Bin Laden are only tools. Arresting a terrorist here and a terrorists there as we have done for decades will not do anything. 9/11 happened because we ignored them for far too long. This is not a problem against a few Rogues by which chasing Bin-Laden into the mountains or ousting Saddam, or bombing Khudafi will solve. If we had only attacked Afghanistan, we would only be placing a band-aid on what is a heart attack. There are millions of Muslims in the Middle East who hate America and they all need dealt with. They didn't have any problems with us until Israel was recognized as a nation. Their religion and oppression which has kept them from moving with history, along with the rest of the world, is the problem. Everything else is bull **** and I don't care how much we "****" them off. They have created their own mess and they are dealing with the consequences.

Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)
Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)
Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade
Ansar al-Islam (AI)
Armed Islamic Group (GIA)
Asbat al-Ansar
Aum Shinrikyo (Aum)
Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA)
Communist Party of Philippines/New People’s Army (CPP/NPA)
Continuity Irish Republican Army (CIRA)
Gama’a al-Islamiyya (IG)
HAMAS
Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM)
Hizballah
Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU)
Jaish-e-Mohammed (JEM)
Jemaah Islamiya Organization (JI)
Al-Jihad (AJ)
Kahane Chai (Kach)
Kongra-Gel (KGK)
Lashkar e-Tayyiba (LT)
Lashkar i Jhangvi (LJ)
Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG)
Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK)
National Liberation Army (ELN)
Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command (PFLP-GC)
Al-Qa’ida
Real IRA (RIRA)
Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC)
Revolutionary Nuclei (RN)
Revolutionary People’s Liberation Party/Front (DHKP/C)
Salafist Group for Call and Combat (GSPC)
Shining Path (SL)
Tanzim Qa’idat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn (QJBR)
United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC)

Most of these are of Islamic origin. I guess getting Bin Laden and making a few arrests will just about solve the problem...huh?

There is a lot in the Middle East you do not understand and until you learn for yourself, you never will. This is a religious war for them and it is a war that they will never stop waging until we deal with them once and for all.

 

[vergiss]

Don't forget Hans Gruber!

...ignore me.

 

[cnredd]

Superman, I think you said it better then myself.

Is there any reason inparticular for you to contradict yourself in your own post?

Hiroshima is a really bad example. . .that should never have happened. It doesn't matter if it saved american soldiers lives, you are supposed to win a war honorably and that was not an honorable victory. In fact, it was just plain horrible. People in Japan are still dying from the effects of that atomic bomb.

Besides, nobody is denying that violence isn't an affective way to solve problems. In fact, violence has probably solved the most problems in human history. However, there are always alternatives to violence and my belief is that if we keep a strong defense but try for peace, we will sometimes succeed.

And violence doesn't prevent more violence. Violence is just violence and if your not going to take part in that fighting then its going to happen to you, as you said. But then taking part in it is still violence and your going to get killed and so will your enemy. And then when everythings over and done with, there will be more violence. Its impossible to solve violence with violence.

After Osama is dead, Al Qaeda is dead, Iraq has a new government, and we have invaded Iran, do you think there will be peace? No?

I don't mind if you pick a position...just stop picking ALL of them!:rofl

 

[kal-el]

"That attitude opens up the foundations of violence, in turn, creating a terribly confused world and mixed-up thought process that is preparing the youth to be even more barbaric than we are. The next generation promises to be horrifyingly unbalanced because for them having grown up seeing it everyday, violence will seem ordinary."

Here's another news flash....it's already ordinary. Violence and barbarism through "sanctioned" religion has thrived in the Middle East for a long time and our taking out Saddam had nothing to do with it. Those people can't even stop hating each other long enough to unite and fight us "infidels" properly. Instead they send out martyrs to murder civilians. In their perverted defiance to American presence in Iraq, they murder their own Muslims. These are the people you are trying to defend as American "victims?"....more like Islamic victims.

Unfortunaley you are correct- violence is ordinary, but when you say taking Saddam out had nothing to do with this Mid East violence, I say you are no doubt wrong. There was still plenty of violence in the Mid East prior to our invasion, but little in Iraq. Saddam was a pyscho,a madman, and tolerated no fundamentalists or extremeists in his country, he was the sole headhunter. It was our needless intrusion into this region that has caused a wave of violence. And, I would defend any "victims", it dosen't matter if they are American, German, Chinease, Muslim, Blue, Green, as all people were created equal.

 

[FinnMacCool]

How did I contradict myself?

Sometimes I forget how old you are until you make statements like this

Do you go out of your way to try and offend me, Gysgt? What does my age have anything to do with it? Please tell me. How is that relevant at all?

 

[MSgt]

Unfortunaley you are correct- violence is ordinary, but when you say taking Saddam out had nothing to do with this Mid East violence, I say you are no doubt wrong. There was still plenty of violence in the Mid East prior to our invasion, but little in Iraq. Saddam was a pyscho,a madman, and tolerated no fundamentalists or extremeists in his country, he was the sole headhunter. It was our needless intrusion into this region that has caused a wave of violence. And, I would defend any "victims", it dosen't matter if they are American, German, Chinease, Muslim, Blue, Green, as all people were created equal.

How can you call Saddam a "pyscho" and a "madman" and remark on how he tolerated fundamentalism and extremists and then say he was a sole headhunter and we shouldn't have intruded? Where is your decency? He had two sons that were worse than him and they all represented an entire regime that had to go. The Bathist party was not one man. If you "defend any victim" than why don't you defend Saddam's victims as young as 12 years old before we invaded. What ever spin you like to put on it and the use of mundane day-to-day details, we liberated millions and millions of victims who now have a chance to live a better life without the abuse of this "pyscho". It's up to them to take the chance we gave them or to fall back into the Middle Eastern desease.

Of course there is more violence in Iraq after Saddam, but blaming the insurgent and Sunni violence on America is not fair. These people already existed and have chosen Iraq to be their battle ground. Better there than New York City. These people in that region do not know how to live without the rule of oppression. This is why there is so much turmoil and an almost complete lack of will to live equally amongst their fellow Muslims (Sunni vs. Shi'ites vs. Kurds.) At least the Kurds and the Shi'ites are making a valiant effort at a constitution despite the Sunni's constant lobbying for more power. Doesn't it strike you odd that the rest of the Middle East does not rush to support the new Iraqi government? They would rather watch it fail, so that they can continue to keep their people under an Arab Islamic strangle hold. The rest of the world want Iraq to fail so that they can snub their self-righteous noses at America. They don't care about any Iraqi "victims". The Iranians do not want to see a democratic and equal Iraq any more than they want to see peace between Israel and Palestine. The entire region murders each other in the name of "Allah", they support violence through terrorism, they oppress and abuse their women, they bath in the superiority of racism and bigotry, and they never exploit any opportunity to further peace. From this world, we have seen the likes of Khudafi, Bin Laden, Saddam, Al-Zawahiri, Zarqawi and other such men. These are not rogues. They are representatives of a failing civilization that grab at anything for power. This means through use of evil regimes, militaries, or the Koran.





We do not need military force to support the increasingly desperate people of Iran — we need radio and television, and regular, relentless statements from our top people damning the Iranian tyrants and embracing the just cause of the Iranian people. And we need to get some material support to the people, many of whom are facing a Zimbabwe-like future of penury and undernourishment. Delay on the Iranian front is not only unnecessary, it is a mistake, because it heartens the rulers and dismays the oppressed. If we can change Iran with words and money and give heart to the Iraqis and the Syrians, it will show them our power and the seriousness of our intent. It will shorten the war and strengthen our cause throughout the region. Our war is with the governments, not the people. The longer we half ass this, the harder it will be to befriend the hopelessly oppressed and "blame hungry" masses.

 

[MSgt]

"Do you go out of your way to try and offend me, Gysgt? What does my age have anything to do with it? Please tell me. How is that relevant at all?"

It wasn't meant to offend. But you have no experience with the real world and you often say things that reflect that. And no...I do not mean a military experience. There is an entire history of problems going on in the Middle East. It didn't start with Iraq and terrorism is not the product of American foreign policies. Ultimately, people are responsible for what they do. Blaming others is a human fallacy, but the Arab have developed this to a superhuman strength. Our liberal masses around the globe let them get away with this, because it is the simple answer and blaming the perversions of the Arab Islamic religion is not PC and they don't wish to anger them any more. Declaring and understanding that what we are facing is a failing civilization which is struggling for a place in the world is too complex, but is none the less, true. They cannot compete on any front (save oil) and their government's greed and maintaining of power through any cost has done this to them.

 

[FinnMacCool]

I have no experience with the real world, do I? First of all you have absolutely no idea what I've been through. And second of all, you told me before that what you went through is of no importance so why are you using my age as an argument? Would it have made any difference if I said I was 54 when I first came on here? Keep it up.