Why socialism always fails

[Grokmaster]

That is not the goal of socialist democracies. In fact the socialist programs serve to improve the functioning of the capitalism that is the basis of their economies. Capitalism is not without faults, no system is. Pure capitalism always fails also.

They cannot exist without leeching off of capitalism.


When they try, you get VENEZUELA.


As far as "SOCIALIST LIGHT" nations, the producers (CAPITALISTS) eventually GET SICK of carrying the CONSUMERS, and either CHANGES COME ( as is happening in Sweden), or the PRODUCER CLASS EMIGRATES ELSEWHERE.

Canada could not exist in its current form w/o the US next door.

 

[Grokmaster]

Nations nevertheless. "Are they socialist?" was the question, not their size.

Already answered. It's not a "soundbite" answer. Sorry, as that seems to be all you are interested in.


They have socialist programs supported by CAPITALIST $$, and their SMALL SIZE is what makes that viable...but even THAT ISN'T WORKING, as the changes in Sweden demonstrate.

 

[Grokmaster]

Can you define what socialism is? Was Obama a socialist? Was Hillary Clinton? Was FDR a socialist?

If we blame the atrocities of socialist governments on socialism can we blame the atrocities of capitalist governments on capitalism? Is capitalism to blame for slavery? Is capitalism to blame for the atrocities of extremists right-wing governments like Pinochet in Chile?

Nice frenzy. Feel better?


Socialists killed over 100 million of THEIR OWN PEOPLE, in the 20th century alone. Free market nations will never challenge that record.

 

[Deuce]

Both are flawed, Sweden more than Canada. Canada thrives because they have the US as a neighbor.

Sweden is in more trouble financially than Canada, because it is more socialist. Too many people TAKING OUT, and not PUTTING IN, a situation that eventually cripples any nation that falls into that quagmire...and the Swedes are figuring that out. and cutting back on the Big Free Welfare State :

Now Even Swedes Are Questioning the Welfare State


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-26/now-even-swedes-are-questioning-the-welfare-state


And these are SMALL NATIONS, population-wise...nowhere near the size of the US.

You didn’t answer the question.

 

[Deuce]

Nice frenzy. Feel better?


Socialists killed over 100 million of THEIR OWN PEOPLE, in the 20th century alone. Free market nations will never challenge that record.

You didn’t answer the question.

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

Nice frenzy. Feel better?


Socialists killed over 100 million of THEIR OWN PEOPLE, in the 20th century alone. Free market nations will never challenge that record.

Why are you dodging the question if you're confident in your claims?

Can you define what socialism is? Was Obama a socialist? Was Hillary Clinton? Was FDR a socialist?

If we blame the atrocities of socialist governments on socialism can we blame the atrocities of capitalist governments on capitalism? Is capitalism to blame for slavery? Is capitalism to blame for the atrocities of extremists right-wing governments like Pinochet in Chile?

 

[smallvoice]

Ok great. So when people think we should be more like Canada or Sweden, they aren't actually socialists. Right?

No rational American thinks we should be like Canada or Sweden, so who cares if they are socialist?

 

[Grokmaster]

You didn’t answer the question.

I most certainly did. I DID NOT provide the "SOUNDBITE", SIMPLISTIC ANSWER you were clamoring for, to parade with, around sans relevant context.

 

[Grokmaster]

No rational American thinks we should be like Canada or Sweden, so who cares if they are socialist?

Neither would exist in their current form without the United States.

 

[iguanaman]

They cannot exist without leeching off of capitalism.


When they try, you get VENEZUELA.


As far as "SOCIALIST LIGHT" nations, the producers (CAPITALISTS) eventually GET SICK of carrying the CONSUMERS, and either CHANGES COME ( as is happening in Sweden), or the PRODUCER CLASS EMIGRATES ELSEWHERE.

Canada could not exist in its current form w/o the US next door.

Whenever you get corrupt dictatorships you get Venezuela. The economic system is largely irrelevant. Chavez stole billions from the people of Venezuela just like Putin and his oligarch stole the wealth of Russia. You also have it backwards. What happens in pure capitalism is that the consumers can no longer carry the producers because they are too broke. That was the root cause of the Great Depression. Greed is the nemesis of a successful capitalistic society and social programs along with progressive tax rates mitigate greed and make capitalism work better for all of us.

 

[Grokmaster]

Why are you dodging the question if you're confident in your claims?

What question are you frothing about?

I have answered every question I have been asked.

 

[Grokmaster]

Whenever you get corrupt dictatorships you get Venezuela. The economic system is largely irrelevant. Chavez stole billions from the people of Venezuela just like Putin and his oligarch stole the wealth of Russia. You also have it backwards. What happens in pure capitalism is that the consumers can no longer carry the producers because they are too broke. That was the root cause of the Great Depression. Greed is the nemesis of a successful capitalistic society and social programs along with progressive tax rates mitigate greed and make capitalism work better for all of us.

No..the economic system is VERY RELEVANT. DESTROYING means of production via NATIONALIZING INDUSTRIES is what causes "VENEZUELA".

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

What question are you frothing about?

The one I keep reposting....

Can you define what socialism is? Was Obama a socialist? Was Hillary Clinton? Was FDR a socialist?

If we blame the atrocities of socialist governments on socialism can we blame the atrocities of capitalist governments on capitalism? Is capitalism to blame for slavery? Is capitalism to blame for the atrocities of extremists right-wing governments like Pinochet in Chile?

 

[smallvoice]

Are you suggesting we abolish social security?

We won't need to, like all socialist programs, it will kill itself off, particularly if there isn't a significant infusion of money- dare I say capitalist money?

 

[Grokmaster]

The one I keep reposting....

Socialism is the nationalization of both the means of production, and distribution.

Open a BOOK. It was first set down in "The Social Contract", Rousseau, 1762.


And the DEATH TOLL ( 100 million+...at LEAST...in Red China, the USSR, Vietnam after the US left, Cambodia, Laos, Cuba, etc.) of socialist governments in the 20th century will NEVER BE SURPASSED by Free Market ones...EVER.

 

[Deuce]

I most certainly did. I DID NOT provide the "SOUNDBITE", SIMPLISTIC ANSWER you were clamoring for, to parade with, around sans relevant context.

If you aren't willing to defend your own posts, that tells us what we need to know about them.

Sweden, by your own admission, is not socialist because they are not "nationalizing" industries.

 

[Grokmaster]

If you aren't willing to defend your own posts, that tells us what we need to know about them.

Sweden, by your own admission, is not socialist because they are not "nationalizing" industries.

No, they are trying to pretend that they get to be "socialist" as they LEECH off of CAPITALISM, while proclaiming themselves as "SUCCESSFUL SOCIALISTS"( which is a LIE) ...and it is failing...AS I HAVE ALREADY STATED HERE, MORE THAN ONCE.


It is FAILING..even in a nation THAT SMALL.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Already answered. It's not a "soundbite" answer. Sorry, as that seems to be all you are interested in.


They have socialist programs supported by CAPITALIST $$, and their SMALL SIZE is what makes that viable...but even THAT ISN'T WORKING, as the changes in Sweden demonstrate.

Wrong again. Loose thinking. Try harder.

 

[iguanaman]

No..the economic system is VERY RELEVANT. DESTROYING means of production via NATIONALIZING INDUSTRIES is what causes "VENEZUELA".

Corrupt dictatorships always fail eventually. The longest lived communist country is N. Korea and your lord and master is in love with its leader.

 

[iguanaman]

No, they are trying to pretend that they get to be "socialist" while LEECHING off of CAPITALISM, while proclaiming themselves as "SUCCESSFUL SOCILALISTS"...and it is failing...AS I HAVE ALREADY STATED HERE, MORE THAN ONCE.


It is FAILING..even in a nation THAT SMALL.

Helping the consumers to consume is beneficial to capitalism it is not "leeching".

 

[Deuce]

No, they are trying to pretend that they get to be "socialist" as they LEECH off of CAPITALISM, while proclaiming themselves as "SUCCESSFUL SOCIALISTS"( which is a LIE) ...and it is failing...AS I HAVE ALREADY STATED HERE, MORE THAN ONCE.


It is FAILING..even in a nation THAT SMALL.

They're doing fine.

 

[Grokmaster]

Wrong again. Loose thinking. Try harder.

Obtuse non response.

Try engaging the ACTUAL POINTS.

Sorry, I'm not interested in DP Left Silliass Word Dancing.

 

[Grokmaster]

They're doing fine.

They are scrambling to stay afloat by cutting taxes to the PRODUCER CLASS, and CUTTING BENEFITS to the PARASITE CLASS.

 

[Grokmaster]

VENEZUELA is where socialism ALWAYS ENDS UP....

 

[Grokmaster]