XShipRider said:The government has all but removed
the parent from the picture by mandating what educational topics be taught.
In essence, the government is dictating social mores, sexual education
and religious beliefs (or the removal thereof) across the entire country
rather than allowing local dictates through our elected school
board members.
As for deterioration, the federal mandates should be limited to
infrastructure management not curriculim management.
Mr. D said:Baloney! If you mean you don't get to shove your particular Christian prayer on other people's captive audience of kids or not allow kids to learn about how to avoid STD's and make unwise choices related to sex, you are right! That's one of the things many people don't like about America Freedom! Others don't have to live by your opinions! You have your home and church to teach your views on social mores, sexual education and religious beliefs! That's the incredible far right spin, "If your kid isn't forced to hear my prayer in our public school you're taking away my religious freedom! Christianity is under attack as I bang on your door with a Bible in my hand to tell you that you are going to hell!" Name a President that was not a Christian? Taliban mentality and spin is alive and well in the U.S.! :roll:
Most parents don't want to be involved until they dissagree and want someone fired! Go to a local Board of Ed. meeting when no hot topic is involved! I taught in a district with 1500 teachers and often there would be hand full of parents! Of course some came every single meeting with a angry anti public school conspiracy complaint! Most are home watching "Survivor-back biting jerks in Pupu Tata".
Much of federal involvement is because of incredibly bad local decisions from local politician Board Members based on ignorance, prejudice and pandoring to become a state representative. Without federal involvement we'd still have segregated schools in some areas! Federal money means federal involvement, some good and some bad!
Mr. D said:XShipRider,
Well your response to my post doesn't sound like the same person who wrote the earlier post! I agree with much of what you said! Sorry if I assumed too much!
I don't understand where you get the idea the NEA has much to say about sex education in a local school district! The biggest force in controlling attitudes is still local boards of education and local pressure groups. Teaching about STD's etc is the right thing to do, but it can't combat a lack of judgement, poor values and lack of parenting. Our major problem is our culture! Our schools reflect our culture, they don't create it! Look what crap is on TV! When the Oscar Awards Ok'd using "bitches and Ho's" in a ganster rap song where are we? Now, will Americans boycott the program or sell out and acccept that level of language as normal? How about the personality traits of the wonderful role model contestants on Survivor? Backbiting immature liars and social climbers exhalted by our TV audience! That's what are TV audiences want! The U.S. has an enemy that is destroying us, and it is us! We're just blaming our schools in our own denial about our decline! I have nothing to do with the Christian right and believe everyone should do their own thing, but "doing your own thing" doesn't mean being ignorant and having no standards! I live by my own standards, but don't inflict them on others by playing the music in my car so it can be heard four blocks away and having my pants below my butt, my hat on sideways, and a baby out of wedlock at 28 yrs old! Those selfish, ignorant 28 year olds are somebody's adult child! Their parents probably blamed their problems on the schools!
Al Quaida isn't our biggest enemy! It's us!
So, what happen to the Roman Empire again? :bomb:
XShipRider said:I wandered a bit above but the gist of it is this -- the local board hand-in-
hand with parents and teachers need to control local curriculum and policy.
The federal government needs to butt out! I firmly believe upstate Oregon
can determine what's best for upstate Oregon without having ANY
national curricula mandated.
alphieb said:Most parents don't want to be involved until they dissagree and want someone fired! Go to a local Board of Ed. meeting when no hot topic is involved! I taught in a district with 1500 teachers and often there would be hand full of parents! Of course some came every single meeting with a angry anti public school conspiracy complaint! Most are home watching "Survivor-back biting jerks in Pupu Tata".
If parents are so anti public schools, why don't they send their kids to a private school? If they cannot afford it that is understandable, but problems need to be addressed at home, first and foremost. By the same token, I know from experience that there are some lousey teachers out there. The parents have a right to complain about that. The fact that they are complaining is indicative that they care and are concerned parents.
Mr. D said:I'm starting to like you! I don't know what upstate Oregon does with its schools, but many states and school districts did such narrowminded and bigoted things that the Federal government had to step in. We need some federal standards particularly when federal funds are involved. You may not agree, but I don't believe parents should have the right to indoctrinate their children. It's wrong with Hitler's youth and the Taliban, and it's wrong when we do it! Much of what is called "local control" is about keeping out ideas that conflict with which parents disagree. Of course whatever is taught must be age appropriate and done with parental envolvement. The important thing is to keep our school systems from indoctrinating, but rather teaching critical thinking skills so we have a country of individuals able to determine right from wrong, fact from myth. "The truth will sent you free!" So why do we protect our children from it and then wonder why we lose their trust when they get older? Prejudice comes from protecting children from the truth! Haven't we seen enough countries that indoctrinated their children march them to wars of which they had no understanding? Ask a 19 year old boy walking into a recruiting station to explain why he needs to risk his life in Iraq. In most cases you will give vague, confused, patriotic generalities he doesn't understand himself. When you are asked to risk losing your life, you should clearly understand why! Young men did, at least to a greater degree in WW II! Ask the average American what Baghdad was like before Saddam? What is a Persian? What did Osama Bin Ladin say his goals were? What is his strategy? Are we operating against his strategy, or playing right into it? Did we know what we are getting into? Can such things be discussed in a public school, or will parents say no?
Good discussing with you!
JOHNYJ said:The indoctrination isnt coming from parents.Its coming from left wing educational establishment. Local control is a must I dont want the federaL govt. running the schools.
Parents don't pay enouh attention to what their kids are beiung taught by the liberal secuarists that control public education in many areas.
Stace said:If you have such a problem with the "liberal" school systems, why don't you home school your kids? There is nothing wrong with schools being secular - religion is something that belongs at home and in church, not in school, unless you want to pay for a private religious school.
JOHNYJ said:When I was young,long ago. I use to hear that the Parochial schools were going to disappear and that public schools were going to be be so great that not even Catholics would send their kids to parochial schools instead of public.
Well the parochial schools are still here.
Tax payers are paying high taxes to run the public schools and they stink. Fear is keeping the parochial schools going,fear of the public schools.
I have a public high schoolo near me .Its in an upper middle class mostly white town.It has a theatre, even a TV station.
It also has metal detectors, armed guards, and local police patroling it.
There is a Catholic girls high school in an ajoining town. It doesn't have a theatre or a tv station or well paid teachers. Its mostly minorirty and mostly None Catholic. It also doesn't have metal detectors or armed guards or local police patroling it. I geuss God and morality make a diference in schools.
Stace said:Not necessarily. The high school I attended was mostly upper middle class, in a predominantly white town, but we certainly didn't have any metal detectors, though we did have a campus cop to deal with minor problems, such as kids bringing drugs to school. We had more problems with the private school (Catholic) kids harassing the public school kids, though most parents chose to send their kids to the public school once they entered high school because the public school was far superior.
ptsdkid said:***Public school was far superior? Wow, that's the first time I ever heard that. And Catholic kids harrassing public school kids? Where on earth is this happening? The fact that Catholic kids attend a much stricter school system, and they have more commited teachers, with a higher level of curriculum, and a higher level of intelligence upon graduation than their public school counterparts makes me want to believe that your statements are simply untrue.
JOHNYJ said:The indoctrination isnt coming from parents.Its coming from left wing educational establishment. Local control is a must I dont want the federaL govt. running the schools.
Parents don't pay enouh attention to what their kids are beiung taught by the liberal secuarists that control public education in many areas.
Vandeervecken said:LOL, where I grew up the only thing the Catholic school was good for was to find easy girls.
The fact that Catholic kids attend a much stricter school system, and they have more commited teachers
a higher level of intelligence upon graduation
BodiSatva said:Mandatory Parenting classes for all parents...period.
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