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Why public schools are bad

Axismaster

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Crusader against communism and the New World Order, Rev. Butch Paugh is exposing all the ways that public schools hurt children. Here are fifteen great examples from his site.

Parents, do you really think your local public school is giving your child a decent education? Think again. Public schools, even in suburban neighborhoods, can harm your kids in many ways. Here's a list of 15 ways public schools can hurt children (and parents):

1. Public schools can cripple millions of children's ability to read by using the "whole-language" instruction method (now called "balanced reading instruction" by many public schools).

2. Many public schools spend up to 50 percent of the school day on non-academic subjects that waste children's precious time. The rest of their time is spent on classes such as sex-education, personal safety, drug prevention, consumer affairs, AIDS education, save-the-environment, family life, study halls, multiculturalism, homeroom, electives, counseling, or sports activities.

3. Public schools teach "new" or "fuzzy" math (sometimes called by different names). These instruction methods can cripple children's ability to learn basic arithmetic. Students who fear math are less likely to pursue good careers like computer science and engineering that depend on a love of and competence with math.

4. These schools force children to read dumbed-down textbooks in English, History, and many other subjects, then memorize meaningless facts to pass the next dumbed-down test. The textbooks are often geared to the slowest learners in the class and water-down the subject matter. 12 years of dumbed-down classes based on dumbed-down textbooks therefore waste children's precious time. This is especially true for children who are quick learners, who must endure 12 years of excruciating boredom in public-school classes. In effect, the schools therefore waste 12 years of your child's life.

5. Public schools force children to study subjects they might hate, can't learn, will never use in their lives, or which bore them. For example, many public schools force students to study a foreign language. Children learn better when they study subjects that interest them.

6. Author John Gatto, in his book "Dumbing Us Down" said that a child eager to learn can learn to read, write, and do basic arithmetic in about 100 hours. Yet our public schools keep children locked up for 12 years, yet can barely teach millions of kids to read.

7. Public schools force parents to pay heavy school taxes for an inferior, often mind-numbing education for their children.

8. Public schools are a government-controlled near-monopoly. Bad schools don't close down because compulsory taxes prop them up. Incompetent or mediocre teachers aren't fired because tenure laws protect them. That's why public schools will never improve. Public schools never go out of business because, like prisons, they get their customers (your children) by force, and their money (your school taxes) by force.

9. Many public schools subject children to drugs, bullies, violence, and values many parents disapprove of.

10. Public schools pressure many parents who have bright, normal children to give their kids potentially dangerous mind-altering drugs to make the bored kids "behave" in class. Over four million allegedly "unruly" kids (mostly boys) line up for Ritalin every day in public schools across America. Methylphenidate (sold as Ritalin) and cocaine are both listed in the same "Schedule II" of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency's Controlled Substances Act (CSA).

11. Public schools are compulsory. They therefore violate parents’ natural and constitutional right to control the education of their children. Public-school authorities, whose salaries we pay with our taxes, force parents to hand over their children to government employees called teachers and to schools that give an inferior education.

12. When public schools cripple childrens' reading and math abilities, they can destroy childrens' love of learning and self-confidence. This can cripple children's ambitions and desire to go to college. This in turn, can force these children to end up with low-paying jobs for the rest of their lives if and when they graduate high school.

13. Public schools force millions of Christian parents to hand over their children to public schools which are decidedly anti-Christian. For example, many social studies textbooks used in public schools have censored out references to such words as 'family,' 'marriage,' 'religion,' 'fidelity,' etc. Many textbooks today refer to a family simply as people choosing to live together.

14. Public schools force children to witness sometimes shocking or obnoxious sexual material in sex-education classes, without parents’ knowledge or consent.

15. The public-school near monopoly and compulsory-attendance laws cripple parents' right and ability to choose a quality, low-cost school in an education free-market that has been squashed by the public-school monopoly.
Sadly, it is not like our socialist government will listen to our pleas.
 

Mr. D

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Axismaster said:
Crusader against communism and the New World Order, Rev. Butch Paugh is exposing all the ways that public schools hurt children. Here are fifteen great examples from his site.



Sadly, it is not like our socialist government will listen to our pleas.
Sadly, it's attitudes like Rev. Butch and others like him that have kept this country from seeing that the problem is us and the values our children bring into the classroom from our culture, not public schools! Schools reflect the community they serve! You are proving it is possible to divide this country with your head in the sand! If my choice is most of the teachers I've know and the self righteous Rev. Butch! I'll take the teachers! The anti education whiners in this country are creating the very thing they fear! Why would any bright, young person want to become a teacher and face the anger and constant negative criticism of people like this! Denial ain't just a river in Egypt!
 

vergiss

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3. Public schools teach "new" or "fuzzy" math (sometimes called by different names). These instruction methods can cripple children's ability to learn basic arithmetic. Students who fear math are less likely to pursue good careers like computer science and engineering that depend on a love of and competence with math.
What, everyone has to pursue a career in engineering or IT? :confused:
 

steen

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The "big" problem with public schools, of course, is that they are subject to academic rather than theocratic standards, and as such are more into teaching facts and marketable skills than indoctrinating faith and political agendas

This is a huge problem for the funde conservatives.
 

Stace

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1. Most of these people that are whining? Went to public schools themselves, and I don't see them whining about their OWN education.

2. I attended 4 different elementary schools in two different states, 2 different middle schools in two different states, and one high school. I have NEVER encountered anything like this stuff you are spewing.

3. Then again, I didn't see any complaining about public education until Bush took office and started his No Child Left Behind crap....wonder why? Could it possibly be because the program should be more aptly named EVERY Child Left Behind?

4. Teachers can only do so much. It is up to the students to WANT to learn, and up to the parents to be involved in their child's academic life. It is also up to the community to provide the proper funding to keep quality teachers and to purchase the necessary learning tools. Why do you think private schools have this supposed edge over public schools? Because at $11,000 a year per child in tuition, they can afford the things they need.
 

Kelzie

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I'm getting a little tired of people saying this when they obviously have not done the research.

After accounting for students' socioeconomic background, a new study shows public school children outperforming their private school peers on a federal math exam.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0510/p11s01-legn.html

There is no difference as long as they're in the same neighborhood.
 

shuamort

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There are a lot of specious claims in the OP. His language is so poorly written and his claims are so syllogistic that how can anyone bite?

Let's look at this one for example:
6. Author John Gatto, in his book "Dumbing Us Down" said that a child eager to learn can learn to read, write, and do basic arithmetic in about 100 hours. Yet our public schools keep children locked up for 12 years, yet can barely teach millions of kids to read.
Well, first we need to have proof of John Gatto's claim. Second, we need to show that the child in public school can't read (or is "barely taught" to read). Third, the example is set that the child has to be eager to learn to read, write and do basic arithmetic. Fourth, there is no example of how how old this "child" would be for the 100 hours to go in effect. I could pick that apart as a scab and still not get down to the bloody stump of sense.
 

Comrade Brian

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Crusader against communism and the New World Order
What is this "New World Order", also crusaders were basically just some fanatics and did most things their beliiefs would critisize, so is this the same case?
is exposing all the ways that public schools hurt children
Education hurts children? More and more people are getting stupider, if they think that.
Parents, do you really think your local public school is giving your child a decent education?
Not a parent, but I think there is a lack of education, but I would not destroy whats left, I would try to build it.
1. Public schools can cripple millions of children's ability to read
Are you ****ing kidding me! Most kids learn how to read in public school. Though I learned to read by age 2 I think. But public school helped me a lot.
2. Many public schools spend up to 50 percent of the school day on non-academic subjects that waste children's precious time
Its a lot better than no acedemics at all.
The rest of their time is spent on classes such as sex-education, personal safety, drug prevention, consumer affairs, AIDS education, save-the-environment, family life, study halls, multiculturalism, homeroom, electives, counseling, or sports activities.
These are all very important, but supposing that you are a libertarian, school is about getting a job than a life.
3. Public schools teach "new" or "fuzzy" math (sometimes called by different names). These instruction methods can cripple children's ability to learn basic arithmetic.
At least they'll actually learn it than by not sending them to school at all.
This is especially true for children who are quick learners, who must endure 12 years of excruciating boredom in public-school classes. In effect, the schools therefore waste 12 years of your child's life.
Not true, I was one of the smartest in all my classes, but I still learned a lot(even though I rarely payed attention) but its not a waste of time.
5. Public schools force children to study subjects they might hate
I hate math and science, but I was still good at them, though I preferred history geography and other social-related subjects.
can't learn
Oh yes, they all know automatically what we can learn and can't.
or which bore them
Most classes bored me to death, so I usually just sat there with my mind wandering, but I still learned a lot.
6. Author John Gatto, in his book "Dumbing Us Down" said that a child eager to learn can learn to read, write, and do basic arithmetic in about 100 hours. Yet our public schools keep children locked up for 12 years, yet can barely teach millions of kids to read.
Yes, this book is infallible
7. Public schools force parents to pay heavy school taxes for an inferior, often mind-numbing education for their children.
So what, they shouldn't get education because of...money?!
8. Public schools are a government-controlled near-monopoly
That is because govt. provides them freely except supplies and taxes, a privatly-owned school often times charge more than a family's income.
9. Many public schools subject children to drugs, bullies, violence, and values many parents disapprove of.
Try to find anywhere without that.
11. Public schools are compulsory
What about private schools?
Public schools force millions of Christian parents to hand over their children to public schools which are decidedly anti-Christian
What the ****? Schools just don't want religous teaching, they aren't anti-Christain, like so many claim.
14. Public schools force children to witness sometimes shocking or obnoxious sexual material in sex-education classes
OK, so lets dumb-down schools and lose the subject altogether, that way when it comes to sexuality, which is a natural part of humainty, they won't know jack-****
Sadly, it is not like our socialist government will listen to our pleas.
I bet you live on Area 51, don't you?
 
T

The Real McCoy

Stace said:
3. Then again, I didn't see any complaining about public education until Bush took office and started his No Child Left Behind crap....wonder why? Could it possibly be because the program should be more aptly named EVERY Child Left Behind?
And who helped Bush come up with that gem?
 

Axismaster

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Kelzie said:
God spoke to him?
That is a true statement if you are a hyper-left socialist. The rest of us just call him Ted Kennedy.
 

Kelzie

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Axismaster said:
That is a true statement if you are a hyper-left socialist. The rest of us just call him Ted Kennedy.
First of all, it was a joke, oh ye of little humor. Second, I couldn't care less what side such a dumb idea came from. Doesn't make it any less dumb.
 

Axismaster

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Kelzie said:
First of all, it was a joke, oh ye of little humor. Second, I couldn't care less what side such a dumb idea came from. Doesn't make it any less dumb.
That's very true. Of course we all know that NCLB is just an excuse for reform, no real shot at anything.
 

doughgirl

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Education
Fundamental Literacy Skills - the US ranks 12th of 18 countries with 20.7% of adults lacking functional literacy skills. (Human Development Index)

High School Graduation - the US ranks 10th with a total of only 87 percent of U.S. adults ages 25 to 34 having finished high school, putting the country behind such nations as South Korea, Norway, the Czech Republic and Japan. (OECD)

Educational Achievement - the United States ranks 18th with 16.2 percent of 15-year-olds falling below international benchmarks, compared with Japan at 2.2 percent, Canada at 5 percent, Britain at 9.4 percent, and France at 12.6 percent, all of this while spending more per student ($10,871) than any other country. (Unicef, 2002)

http://www.mydd.com/story/2005/8/7/204714/6508


How American 15-year-olds rank worldwide
"Fifteen-year-olds from 32 of the world's most developed countries were tested last year as part of the Program for International Student Assessment. The test gauged how well they could apply knowledge gained in and out of school in the three subjects.

The results, released yesterday, show 14 countries ranked higher than the United States in overall literacy, with Finland, Canada and New Zealand at the top, respectively. That combined score includes the ability to interpret and reflect on texts and retrieve information.

U.S. 15-year-olds ranked 18th in math; Japan, Korea and New Zealand ranked highest. The United States was 14th in science, with Korea, Japan and Finland at the top.

"Unfortunately, we are average across the board compared to other industrialized nations," Education Secretary Rod Paige said in a written statement. "In the global economy, these countries are our competitors -- average is not good enough for American kids."

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/49319_students05.shtml

Who cares which one educates the best, private or public. Overall we stink and it shows.
Try to find one website where American schools excel, where we are on top in any subject. So sad. Our schools are pathetic. But then we do not value education as a society anymore. We value sports........
 

Kelzie

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doughgirl said:
Who cares which one educates the best, private or public. Overall we stink and it shows.
Try to find one website where American schools excel, where we are on top in any subject. So sad. Our schools are pathetic. But then we do not value education as a society anymore. We value sports........
Don't even get me started on sports. I don't know who's bright idea it was to combine school and sports, but I think they need to create two tuitions. One for people that care about our sports teams, and one for those who don't. Then the 5 MILLION DOLLARS CU just gave to the football coach to fire him could be on someone else's bill.
 

Mr. D

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doughgirl said:
Who cares which one educates the best, private or public. Overall we stink and it shows.
Try to find one website where American schools excel, where we are on top in any subject. So sad. Our schools are pathetic. But then we do not value education as a society anymore. We value sports........[/QUOTE

So I get it! We import a great school from some country of your choice. Then all our kids dressed in hip hop clothes with their butts hanging out of their pants, rings in their noses, will put down their video games, stop listening to gangster rap, stop using M.F. every other word, and decide to pursue an education that will lead them to become a brain surgeon!

Funny how well Asian American immigrant's children do it our failing schools! What's pathetic is blaming our schools for the values of our children! That's why all the pressure on schools isn't making big gains! Little Johnny is listening to ganster rap while Mom is blaming his school! Denial ain't just a river in Eygpt!
 

Caine

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Denial.... :rofl

I think you say that every post.
 

Mr. D

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Caine said:
Denial.... :rofl

I think you say that every post.
I think you are right! It needs to be said! Until this country is willing to stop the "denial' of the real problem in education all the school bashing and testing will not change the outcome! Teachers and schools are much better than they were when I was a kid, the difference is that my parents and I knew when I didn't learn where the problem lay! Not in the school, but in my attitude! I was the first person in both of my families to go to college even though my family was poor and my father died when I was in high school! I continued and earned graduate degrees and I am financially well off mainly because my mother put the responsibility for my education where it belonged, right on my shoulders! That's where Asian Immigrant parents get it right while many in this country blame the schools for little Johnny placing more value in video games and gangster rap than his future! Look at his "Bling Bling" heroes in sports, music and entertainment!

Denial ain't . . . . OK, OK! I'll give you a break this time!
:2wave:
 
T

The Real McCoy

Kelzie said:
Don't even get me started on sports. I don't know who's bright idea it was to combine school and sports, but I think they need to create two tuitions. One for people that care about our sports teams, and one for those who don't. Then the 5 MILLION DOLLARS CU just gave to the football coach to fire him could be on someone else's bill.
Tuition?

And what's wrong with high school sports? They promote exercise, dedication, competition and teamwork... all are important values in the adult world. Granted, many schools treat their athletes with different standards but I think the pros far outweigh the cons.
 

Kelzie

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The Real McCoy said:
Tuition?

And what's wrong with high school sports? They promote exercise, dedication, competition and teamwork... all are important values in the adult world. Granted, many schools treat their athletes with different standards but I think the pros far outweigh the cons.
I have no problem with high school sports, mostly because the high school I went to put education first. I'm sure some high schools flip it, and that should be corrected. My concern is when a sports program is responsible for my higher tuition. I'm paying to learn. Not so my school can fire a football coach.
 
T

The Real McCoy

Kelzie said:
I have no problem with high school sports, mostly because the high school I went to put education first. I'm sure some high schools flip it, and that should be corrected. My concern is when a sports program is responsible for my higher tuition. I'm paying to learn. Not so my school can fire a football coach.
Well colleges make plenty of money from sporting event attendance.
 
H

hipsterdufus

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That's very true. Of course we all know that NCLB is just an excuse for reform, no real shot at anything.
In it's present form - the neo-con men are using NCLB to:

1. Dismantle public schools and privatize education to for profit companies like Edison.
2. Dismantle the NEA/AFT (too liberal for the neo-conmen)
3. Support vouchers
4. Promote religious education
5. Generally dumb down the nation - the dumber the better!
 

Kelzie

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The Real McCoy said:
Well colleges make plenty of money from sporting event attendance.
Unless they're making a profit which they donate to lowering tuitions, I don't give a rats ass how mauch they make. And I'm thinking, after paying for our huge ass stadium, special gym for the players, tuition for the chearleader and players, flight and hotel costs, not to mention salaries for the assisstant coaches and head coach (which was evidently over a million a year), they're probably not raking much in.
 
T

The Real McCoy

hipsterdufus said:
In it's present form - the neo-con men are using NCLB to:

1. Dismantle public schools and privatize education to for profit companies like Edison.
2. Dismantle the NEA/AFT (too liberal for the neo-conmen)
3. Support vouchers
4. Promote religious education
5. Generally dumb down the nation - the dumber the better!
Ted Kennedy is a neo-con? Where was I when he came outta the closet?
 

CoffeeSaint

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The Real McCoy said:
Ted Kennedy is a neo-con? Where was I when he came outta the closet?
WTF? Kelzie was right; it doesn't matter who wrote the piece of crap, it's a piece of crap. NCLB is a liberal idea, promoted by liberals, and enacted by a conservative president. It was gutted, since it has neither power to effect change, nor funding to promote it; all it has is the ability to make schools look bad, and politicians look good -- except that now that we know how dumb it is, they look bad for writing and enacting it. NCLB is truly a non-partisan issue: it makes everyody look bad.
As for the OP, and Rev. Butch: that man needed to pay more attention in school. Do I really need to say that whole language and "new math" are both 30 year old concepts, which have been abandoned as pedagogical philosophies for years? That a student's time in school is far from wasted, especially compared to the amount of time spent away from school? That somehow his list of classes a child takes reflects no kind of reality? Do I need to say all of these things?
I didn't think so.
As for sports in school: I'm startin' a new thread. Too much to say.
 
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