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Why our for profit health care system does not work!

independentusa

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Anyone with a brain has to realize our present for profit health care system does not work and costs way too much. We pay almost twice as much per person as the next country and yet rank something like 37th in the world. We also have millions of people without insurance. I think that we do not really have a health care system. We have providers of service and providers of health care insurance. Both of these providers should be trying to provide the most health care at the least cost. Instead they try to provide the least amount of health care at the highest cost. And why can they do this, because of the lack of competition in health care in this country. When you want to buy a car you go around to several care dealers and get the most car you can afford at the least cost. NO one does that with health care. We either go to the closest doctor who provides the care we need or to one chosen by our insurance company. What we have is one of the most bloated systems which provides some of the worst outcomes in the world. Health care providers want to fully utilize the expensive equipment they buy so they over utilize high cost tests where simpler low cost tests would do as well. Drug companies raise prices a thousand fold to create huge profit levels after we give them monopoly over the drugs they create, without any controls. Our entire system is out of control and our government is doing nothing to correct the problem. Instead the very people we send to congress and the White House take millions of dollars from these drug companies, insuring nothing will be done. Now we are looking at a Medicare for all system. I am not sure it is the answer as it will create a period of time where once again the health care system will be in a huge flux. I do know that something has to be done to fix the problems before the system simply folds under its own bloated weight. Jut so you know I was part of the system for 40 years.
 

trouble13

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Anyone with a brain has to realize our present for profit health care system does not work and costs way too much. We pay almost twice as much per person as the next country and yet rank something like 37th in the world. We also have millions of people without insurance. I think that we do not really have a health care system. We have providers of service and providers of health care insurance. Both of these providers should be trying to provide the most health care at the least cost. Instead they try to provide the least amount of health care at the highest cost. And why can they do this, because of the lack of competition in health care in this country. When you want to buy a car you go around to several care dealers and get the most car you can afford at the least cost. NO one does that with health care. We either go to the closest doctor who provides the care we need or to one chosen by our insurance company. What we have is one of the most bloated systems which provides some of the worst outcomes in the world. Health care providers want to fully utilize the expensive equipment they buy so they over utilize high cost tests where simpler low cost tests would do as well. Drug companies raise prices a thousand fold to create huge profit levels after we give them monopoly over the drugs they create, without any controls. Our entire system is out of control and our government is doing nothing to correct the problem. Instead the very people we send to congress and the White House take millions of dollars from these drug companies, insuring nothing will be done. Now we are looking at a Medicare for all system. I am not sure it is the answer as it will create a period of time where once again the health care system will be in a huge flux. I do know that something has to be done to fix the problems before the system simply folds under its own bloated weight. Jut so you know I was part of the system for 40 years.
I agree with you on those problems but universal healthcare will make those problems worse not better

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Captain Adverse

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Anyone with a brain has to realize our present for profit health care system does not work and costs way too much. We pay almost twice as much per person as the next country and yet rank something like 37th in the world. We also have millions of people without insurance. I think that we do not really have a health care system. We have providers of service and providers of health care insurance. Both of these providers should be trying to provide the most health care at the least cost. Instead they try to provide the least amount of health care at the highest cost. And why can they do this, because of the lack of competition in health care in this country. When you want to buy a car you go around to several care dealers and get the most car you can afford at the least cost. NO one does that with health care. We either go to the closest doctor who provides the care we need or to one chosen by our insurance company. What we have is one of the most bloated systems which provides some of the worst outcomes in the world. Health care providers want to fully utilize the expensive equipment they buy so they over utilize high cost tests where simpler low cost tests would do as well. Drug companies raise prices a thousand fold to create huge profit levels after we give them monopoly over the drugs they create, without any controls. Our entire system is out of control and our government is doing nothing to correct the problem. Instead the very people we send to congress and the White House take millions of dollars from these drug companies, insuring nothing will be done. Now we are looking at a Medicare for all system. I am not sure it is the answer as it will create a period of time where once again the health care system will be in a huge flux. I do know that something has to be done to fix the problems before the system simply folds under its own bloated weight. Jut so you know I was part of the system for 40 years.

Well, you list a lot of hasty generalizations without bothering to explain why they actually exist, then propose government "do something about it." :roll:

What EXACTLY do you think government should do? Who EXACTLY is supposed to pay for whatever is done?

1. It takes the time of skilled research scientists to develop medicines, anti-virals, anti-bacterials, testing methodologies, and all the tools, machines, and other means of examining patients to support medical practitioners in rendering a valid diagnosis and treatment plan.

2. It takes YEARS of training to create a medical doctor or a medical researcher. That's not even talking about the education and training of those in medical support fields.

3. It takes many different types of manufacturing businesses to produce the medicines, tools, electronics, machinery, etc. necessary to treat patients. Then the technicians to maintain those gee-whiz machines.

4. Don't forget the Facilities (hospitals, clinics, etc.) for the care and treatment of patients have to be constructed and maintained.

Strangely, none of this simply falls from the sky like manna from heaven. It COSTS money.

Now people seeking to enter into any endeavor also typically seek to profit thereby in some way. They want all their time and commitment to be rewarded with more that just a smile (since that does not pay the rent, put food on the table, or clothes on their kids backs).

Then there is always the risk of injury or contagions from constant contact with those suffering some illness to contend with.

How do you motivate quality people to do such work if your only response is "give the government control." Just ask any Veteran who has ever dealt with the VA Medical system how well that works.

So instead of a general complaint, how about some hard facts and a clear outline of how you'd like this to work. Then a discussion might be had. :coffeepap:
 
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Hawkeye10

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Anyone with a brain has to realize our present for profit health care system does not work and costs way too much. We pay almost twice as much per person as the next country and yet rank something like 37th in the world. We also have millions of people without insurance. I think that we do not really have a health care system. We have providers of service and providers of health care insurance. Both of these providers should be trying to provide the most health care at the least cost. Instead they try to provide the least amount of health care at the highest cost. And why can they do this, because of the lack of competition in health care in this country. When you want to buy a car you go around to several care dealers and get the most car you can afford at the least cost. NO one does that with health care. We either go to the closest doctor who provides the care we need or to one chosen by our insurance company. What we have is one of the most bloated systems which provides some of the worst outcomes in the world. Health care providers want to fully utilize the expensive equipment they buy so they over utilize high cost tests where simpler low cost tests would do as well. Drug companies raise prices a thousand fold to create huge profit levels after we give them monopoly over the drugs they create, without any controls. Our entire system is out of control and our government is doing nothing to correct the problem. Instead the very people we send to congress and the White House take millions of dollars from these drug companies, insuring nothing will be done. Now we are looking at a Medicare for all system. I am not sure it is the answer as it will create a period of time where once again the health care system will be in a huge flux. I do know that something has to be done to fix the problems before the system simply folds under its own bloated weight. Jut so you know I was part of the system for 40 years.
You would think but it does not work this way in my experience.
 

Hawkeye10

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I dont talk a lot about it here because it is a hopeless idea, our courts would never allow it, and we are not even talking about fixing our completely abusive and barely functional so-called justice system......but I say that things are so broken that we need to nationalize damn near everything, make a completely different system, and then sell it off after twenty years. Those who got nationalized split what ever is the sell price based upon a point system.....which they will likely whine is 10% of what they should have gotten, but **** them....they are part of the problem and they get what they get.

Urban Renewal....rip the old out block by block and start over......this is where we are.
 
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apdst

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Anyone with a brain has to realize our present for profit health care system does not work and costs way too much. We pay almost twice as much per person as the next country and yet rank something like 37th in the world. We also have millions of people without insurance. I think that we do not really have a health care system. We have providers of service and providers of health care insurance. Both of these providers should be trying to provide the most health care at the least cost. Instead they try to provide the least amount of health care at the highest cost. And why can they do this, because of the lack of competition in health care in this country. When you want to buy a car you go around to several care dealers and get the most car you can afford at the least cost. NO one does that with health care. We either go to the closest doctor who provides the care we need or to one chosen by our insurance company. What we have is one of the most bloated systems which provides some of the worst outcomes in the world. Health care providers want to fully utilize the expensive equipment they buy so they over utilize high cost tests where simpler low cost tests would do as well. Drug companies raise prices a thousand fold to create huge profit levels after we give them monopoly over the drugs they create, without any controls. Our entire system is out of control and our government is doing nothing to correct the problem. Instead the very people we send to congress and the White House take millions of dollars from these drug companies, insuring nothing will be done. Now we are looking at a Medicare for all system. I am not sure it is the answer as it will create a period of time where once again the health care system will be in a huge flux. I do know that something has to be done to fix the problems before the system simply folds under its own bloated weight. Jut so you know I was part of the system for 40 years.

The government can't run a healthcare system that serves 9 million people. How the hell is it going to run a system that serves 350 million?
 

Nap

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Anyone with a brain has to realize our present for profit health care system does not work and costs way too much. We pay almost twice as much per person as the next country and yet rank something like 37th in the world. We also have millions of people without insurance. I think that we do not really have a health care system. We have providers of service and providers of health care insurance. Both of these providers should be trying to provide the most health care at the least cost. Instead they try to provide the least amount of health care at the highest cost. And why can they do this, because of the lack of competition in health care in this country. When you want to buy a car you go around to several care dealers and get the most car you can afford at the least cost. NO one does that with health care. We either go to the closest doctor who provides the care we need or to one chosen by our insurance company. What we have is one of the most bloated systems which provides some of the worst outcomes in the world. Health care providers want to fully utilize the expensive equipment they buy so they over utilize high cost tests where simpler low cost tests would do as well. Drug companies raise prices a thousand fold to create huge profit levels after we give them monopoly over the drugs they create, without any controls. Our entire system is out of control and our government is doing nothing to correct the problem. Instead the very people we send to congress and the White House take millions of dollars from these drug companies, insuring nothing will be done. Now we are looking at a Medicare for all system. I am not sure it is the answer as it will create a period of time where once again the health care system will be in a huge flux. I do know that something has to be done to fix the problems before the system simply folds under its own bloated weight. Jut so you know I was part of the system for 40 years.

We have two major issues driving up healthcare costs, insurance and government. Like you stated, when you have no competition due to not being able to compare prices you are going to get inflated prices.

Also, if you look at the industries with the highest rising costs (healthcare, housing, education) it is typically going to be those that are more regulated. When a free market is allowed to work outside of government intervention, quality goes up and costs come down. For instance, Lasik eye surgery is an elective surgery thus it is not heavily regulated and insurances don't cover it forcing the consumers to shop around for it should they choose to have it done. In the last 15 years the prices have plummeted from 10k per eye to 1-3k per eye and as long as the government stays out of it then it will continue to drop as the technology becomes cheaper and more accessible as with every other industry.
 

Conaeolos

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Anyone with a brain has to realize our present for profit health care system does not work and costs way too much. We pay almost twice as much per person as the next country and yet rank something like 37th in the world. We also have millions of people without insurance. I think that we do not really have a health care system. We have providers of service and providers of health care insurance. Both of these providers should be trying to provide the most health care at the least cost. Instead they try to provide the least amount of health care at the highest cost. And why can they do this, because of the lack of competition in health care in this country. When you want to buy a car you go around to several care dealers and get the most car you can afford at the least cost. NO one does that with health care. We either go to the closest doctor who provides the care we need or to one chosen by our insurance company. What we have is one of the most bloated systems which provides some of the worst outcomes in the world. Health care providers want to fully utilize the expensive equipment they buy so they over utilize high cost tests where simpler low cost tests would do as well. Drug companies raise prices a thousand fold to create huge profit levels after we give them monopoly over the drugs they create, without any controls. Our entire system is out of control and our government is doing nothing to correct the problem. Instead the very people we send to congress and the White House take millions of dollars from these drug companies, insuring nothing will be done. Now we are looking at a Medicare for all system. I am not sure it is the answer as it will create a period of time where once again the health care system will be in a huge flux. I do know that something has to be done to fix the problems before the system simply folds under its own bloated weight. Jut so you know I was part of the system for 40 years.
I think you may overestimate how well other countries are doing with this problem. Universal public might have some better averages/costs but fails to account for many factors of better individual outcomes. Often trading longterm wins for short-term outcomes with a sprinkling of pumping statistics for politics. Lots to learn but no one I've seen with a sustainable/transferable model. The current high pubic expense problem is odd but when you realize how we basically cover the highest risk, not that outrageous and certainly more than just being in a for profit environment. That said, I certainly share many of your concerns and would agree we need to see many changes soon, probably from some hybrid of both right & left approaches.

The harder truth though is as our demographics age every country effected can't really afford to keep even current levels of care which is extra scary. And the removal of a meaningful mental health care system is compounding everything.

- We defiantly need a universal safety net [just the least insurable doesn't cut it] but it needs to be lower quality standard and cheap
- We defiantly need to improve and remove barriers on our wonderful high-cost cutting edge for profit option
- We defiantly need more incentives to encourage proactive health: obesity, poor nutrition, sedentary lifestyles all cost us all
- Judicial reforms: medical liability is out of control
- Choice.
- Address: Lobbying | Over prescription | copyright issues

How to do it though —> No clear Idea and I am sure that's how many feel and why everyone is mostly just watching a collapsing system. Throwing unrealistic solutions as talking points.

If I was in congress though I think I could get something by slowly coming to a bipartisan compromise allowing for a modest and reasonable public option well at the same time removing interferece creating huge new opportunities in the free market to expand innovation,competion and choice. Only the market can innovate us out of an impossible jam but people also need affordable basic care. It a weird problem where we have far too much government interference in all the wrong places and not enough where she's most needed.

Alas, I fear the future will instead be transtion to transtion shifting around blame poltics with basicly just a new set of problems each time.
 

Rexedgar

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No one has mentioned the insurance companies. They have stock holders that need to be kept satisfied. On the care end, professionals over test not only to get ROI of the expensive equipment, but also to cover themselves if the find themselves on the wrong side of a malpractice suit. As for a safety net, drop by your local ER Friday or Saturday evening. We all pay for those treatments. As far as life-style, (smoking, drinking, sedentary, over-eating) choices no one wants restrictions on what they can buy or do. Then there are the lobbyists that make above average money keeping Congress ears and coffers/bellies full. Check out what some industries pay in lobbying per year.

The link is just one example, pay attention to where the commas are:

https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?indexType=s
 

PirateMk1

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Simple: because prices don't "go retro."

Yes they do. Even in medical procedures. Look at any non necessary medical procedure, Laser eye correction comes to mind off the bat. Other examples include logistics of all kinds. All sorts of widgets. Lots of examples of costs going down and corresponding quality going up.
 

PeteEU

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We have two major issues driving up healthcare costs, insurance and government. Like you stated, when you have no competition due to not being able to compare prices you are going to get inflated prices.

Yes but then you say this..

Also, if you look at the industries with the highest rising costs (healthcare, housing, education) it is typically going to be those that are more regulated.

Healthcare is NOT regulated... having industries bribe themselves into regional or local monopolies is not "over regulation".. it is a failure of regulation.

When a free market is allowed to work outside of government intervention, quality goes up and costs come down.

Nope, been proven over and over again that this is false. True free market leads to monopoly and higher prices because one or more actors in the market will do anything to gain the upper hand and reduce the competition. In fact the current situation is the result of "unregulated free market practices", where bribing your local politician to establish regional monopolies is not even illegal.

For instance, Lasik eye surgery is an elective surgery thus it is not heavily regulated and insurances don't cover it forcing the consumers to shop around for it should they choose to have it done. In the last 15 years the prices have plummeted from 10k per eye to 1-3k per eye and as long as the government stays out of it then it will continue to drop as the technology becomes cheaper and more accessible as with every other industry.

Again you are mixing up regulation and lack of regulation. Lasik eye surgery is regulated (the pizza dude cant preform it as far as I know), but what is different is that the lasik eye industry has not bribed government to establish local/regional monopolies.

Like it or not, within the regional monopolies that the industries have created, there is next to no regulation other than basic "must have doctor license" which is why they can get away with insane prices and practices.

What is needed is much much more regulation that is designed to promote and maintain competition in the health insurance industry and healthcare industry.
 

ataraxia

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We have two major issues driving up healthcare costs, insurance and government.

Well, those may be causing inefficiencies in its delivery. But here is the main driver of rising healthcare costs: advancing science and technology. Back in the 18th century, healthcare meant if someone was sick, no matter what the cause ( because who really knew after all?), you wrapped a tourniquet around their arm, cut a vein, and bled them a little into a basin to “let out the evil humors”. It kept healthcare costs very low.

Now, every year, there are new drugs, new science, new imaging technology, new surgical procedures, new equipment, etc, etc...Society’s tacit expectation of medicine, the goal and ideal which it wants it to strive for, is immortality in perfect health. And until that goal is reached, healthcare costs will keep rising.

How to fix it? I don’t know. But to solve a problem, you first have to be clear what it is. You can’t just keep blaming government, or insurance companies, or doctors ( whose net income has actually been going down since the late 1980s), or pharma, or hospitals, etc...

What society really should be asking itself is: how much is it willing to pay for immortality in perfect health? And how quickly does it want to get there?

Who really knew healthcare could be so complicated, right?:)
 
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ttwtt78640

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No one has mentioned the insurance companies. They have stock holders that need to be kept satisfied. On the care end, professionals over test not only to get ROI of the expensive equipment, but also to cover themselves if the find themselves on the wrong side of a malpractice suit. As for a safety net, drop by your local ER Friday or Saturday evening. We all pay for those treatments. As far as life-style, (smoking, drinking, sedentary, over-eating) choices no one wants restrictions on what they can buy or do. Then there are the lobbyists that make above average money keeping Congress ears and coffers/bellies full. Check out what some industries pay in lobbying per year.

The link is just one example, pay attention to where the commas are:

https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?indexType=s

Your link is even more telling when you select by "industry":

https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?indexType=i&showYear=a
 

Nap

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Well, those may be causing inefficiencies in its delivery. But here is the main driver of rising healthcare costs: advancing science and technology. Back in the 18th century, healthcare meant if someone was sick, no matter what the cause ( because who really knew after all?), you wrapped a tourniquet around their arm, cut a vein, and bled them a little into a basin to “let out the evil humors”. It kept healthcare costs very low.

Now, every year, there are new drugs, new science, new imaging technology, new surgical procedures, new equipment, etc, etc...Society’s tacit expectation of medicine, the goal and ideal which it wants it to strive for, is immortality in perfect health. And until that goal is reached, healthcare costs will keep rising.

How to fix it? I don’t know. But to solve a problem, you first have to be clear what it is. You can’t just keep blaming government, or insurance companies, or doctors ( whose net income has actually been going down since the late 1980s), or pharma, or hospitals, etc...

What society really should be asking itself is: how much is it willing to pay for immortality in perfect health? And how quickly does it want to get there?

Who really knew healthcare could be so complicated, right?:)

Technological advancement increases quality and reduces costs over time. Sure, at first new technology is expensive but over time new technologies are found raising the quality and lower costs of the previous technology. Large flat screen TV's used to be incredibly expensive, now even those in the poorest of neighborhoods have them as they are more affordable.
 

Nap

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Yes but then you say this..



Healthcare is NOT regulated... having industries bribe themselves into regional or local monopolies is not "over regulation".. it is a failure of regulation.



Nope, been proven over and over again that this is false. True free market leads to monopoly and higher prices because one or more actors in the market will do anything to gain the upper hand and reduce the competition. In fact the current situation is the result of "unregulated free market practices", where bribing your local politician to establish regional monopolies is not even illegal.



Again you are mixing up regulation and lack of regulation. Lasik eye surgery is regulated (the pizza dude cant preform it as far as I know), but what is different is that the lasik eye industry has not bribed government to establish local/regional monopolies.

Like it or not, within the regional monopolies that the industries have created, there is next to no regulation other than basic "must have doctor license" which is why they can get away with insane prices and practices.

What is needed is much much more regulation that is designed to promote and maintain competition in the health insurance industry and healthcare industry.

Lol, Healthcare is one of the most heavily regulated industries in the US. It helps to know what you are talking about, however it is understandable that a foreigner wouldn't know that.
 

independentusa

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Well, you list a lot of hasty generalizations without bothering to explain why they actually exist, then propose government "do something about it." :roll:

What EXACTLY do you think government should do? Who EXACTLY is supposed to pay for whatever is done?

1. It takes the time of skilled research scientists to develop medicines, anti-virals, anti-bacterials, testing methodologies, and all the tools, machines, and other means of examining patients to support medical practitioners in rendering a valid diagnosis and treatment plan.

2. It takes YEARS of training to create a medical doctor or a medical researcher. That's not even talking about the education and training of those in medical support fields.

3. It takes many different types of manufacturing businesses to produce the medicines, tools, electronics, machinery, etc. necessary to treat patients. Then the technicians to maintain those gee-whiz machines.

4. Don't forget the Facilities (hospitals, clinics, etc.) for the care and treatment of patients have to be constructed and maintained.

Strangely, none of this simply falls from the sky like manna from heaven. It COSTS money.

Now people seeking to enter into any endeavor also typically seek to profit thereby in some way. They want all their time and commitment to be rewarded with more that just a smile (since that does not pay the rent, put food on the table, or clothes on their kids backs).

Then there is always the risk of injury or contagions from constant contact with those suffering some illness to contend with.

How do you motivate quality people to do such work if your only response is "give the government control." Just ask any Veteran who has ever dealt with the VA Medical system how well that works.

So instead of a general complaint, how about some hard facts and a clear outline of how you'd like this to work. Then a discussion might be had. :coffeepap:

First, all of the costs you mention in bringing in new medications and equipment is paid for by us because it is all tax deductibles as R&D. We then pay for it again with the very high costs we pay for meds and equipment as these same companies say they need the high costs to offset R&D. So these companies get paid twice for the same costs. And if we go to a one payer system, we can do as the armed services did during Vietnam era, we pay for the schooling or the training of those going into those professions. And the problem we have with clinics and hospitals is that every one of them have to have the same equipment and facilities. As an example we can have five or six CAT scanners in an area where one or two are needed. TO pay for these the facilities will use them for scans that could be done by a cheaper X-ray. I know, it has happened to me. Now look at all of the high cost equipment that each facility has and then you will see why I call our system "bloated". And finally, we are one of the few if only for profit health care system in the world. It is an area that does not suit the competitive nature of our capitalistic system. To those who invest in the system, they are only interested in the system as a profit center. They want it to provide the least care at the highest cost until it comes to them or their family
 

independentusa

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Lol, Healthcare is one of the most heavily regulated industries in the US. It helps to know what you are talking about, however it is understandable that a foreigner wouldn't know that.

Actually it is regulated for quality of service, not for cost unless the Government is paying the bill. Even then, Medicare is not allowed to negotiate the cost of meds, which creates a huge profit center for drug companies and is one of the reasons we pay more for meds in this country than any other in the world.
 

independentusa

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The government can't run a healthcare system that serves 9 million people. How the hell is it going to run a system that serves 350 million?

Actually you are wrong, the Medicare system is by far the most economical system in our country. Yes people can cheat the system, they also cheat the for profit systems. One reason the Medicare system is cheaper is the cost of administration. The admin costs for Medicare is about 6.5%, while the admin costs of for profits average above 25%. When you see the salary and bonuses paid to for profit CEO's, remember, that is you dollars paying for those millions.
 

ataraxia

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Technological advancement increases quality and reduces costs over time. Sure, at first new technology is expensive but over time new technologies are found raising the quality and lower costs of the previous technology. Large flat screen TV's used to be incredibly expensive, now even those in the poorest of neighborhoods have them as they are more affordable.

Sure. But new technology keeps coming. The average person today spends far more on technology than they did 50 years ago. And that’s despite the fact that, as you rightly point out, the costs of individual things have come down.

New diseases keep getting described. Treatments for diseases previously thought uncurable are becoming available. Clever new surgical procedures keep getting developed. New laboratory tests are being described. It’s a never ending avalanche.
 

PeteEU

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Lol, Healthcare is one of the most heavily regulated industries in the US. It helps to know what you are talking about, however it is understandable that a foreigner wouldn't know that.
There is no regulation because the rules are designed to protect business and not the consumer.... Which is my point by saying there is no regulation.

For example. Government is not allow to negotiate drug prices as per regulation... Why on earth would such a regulation exist? Well since the regulation was dictated by the industry it self, then you have your answer.

Or the fact that local government regulate that only one insurance company could work in a state....Wonder why that was allowed....

While all this is "regulations", they are hardly put in place to help and protect the consumer which is normally the goal of any and all regulations in the first place....

Point is that we constantly hear this red tape argument by the US right and yet they are its main defenders when it comes to healthcare...

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Nap

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Actually it is regulated for quality of service, not for cost unless the Government is paying the bill. Even then, Medicare is not allowed to negotiate the cost of meds, which creates a huge profit center for drug companies and is one of the reasons we pay more for meds in this country than any other in the world.

When you regulate for quality of service, you are increasing the cost. Any tax or regulation placed on a business results in either increased costs or limiting innovation. We pay more in meds because other countries are either too poor to pay actual costs (3rd world countries) or because other countries limit the prices companies can charge. It is similar to how emergency rooms must provide service regardless if the patient can pay for it, those costs must be recouped somehow and that result is charging others for it. In the case of meds, we are essentially funding the R&D for new meds for the world.
 

Nap

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Sure. But new technology keeps coming. The average person today spends far more on technology than they did 50 years ago. And that’s despite the fact that, as you rightly point out, the costs of individual things have come down.

New diseases keep getting described. Treatments for diseases previously thought uncurable are becoming available. Clever new surgical procedures keep getting developed. New laboratory tests are being described. It’s a never ending avalanche.

Correct, and initially these new services are more expensive but as time goes on it becomes cheaper and cheaper. Again the Lasik eye surgery example, the laser is incredibly expensive but as the technology increases to make that laser more available prices come down.
 

apdst

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Actually you are wrong, the Medicare system is by far the most economical system in our country. Yes people can cheat the system, they also cheat the for profit systems. One reason the Medicare system is cheaper is the cost of administration. The admin costs for Medicare is about 6.5%, while the admin costs of for profits average above 25%. When you see the salary and bonuses paid to for profit CEO's, remember, that is you dollars paying for those millions.

The, why the need for Obamacare?
 

Nap

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There is no regulation because the rules are designed to protect business and not the consumer.... Which is my point by saying there is no regulation.

For example. Government is not allow to negotiate drug prices as per regulation... Why on earth would such a regulation exist? Well since the regulation was dictated by the industry it self, then you have your answer.

Or the fact that local government regulate that only one insurance company could work in a state....Wonder why that was allowed....

While all this is "regulations", they are hardly put in place to help and protect the consumer which is normally the goal of any and all regulations in the first place....

Point is that we constantly hear this red tape argument by the US right and yet they are its main defenders when it comes to healthcare...

Sent from my JSN-L21 using Tapatalk

The government shouldn't be regulating the price for any industry much less drug prices. As far as crony capitalism and governments favoring a particular company or industry over another, I am in full agreement with you that it is a problem, however we have fundamentally different views on how to fix it. I believe reducing the role of Government in an industry is the only way to remove such corruption, you see corruption and believe more government is needed (which only increases corruption, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely is a truism that many see to have forgotten)
 
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