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Why my parents just got arrested in Madison, WI

I didn't realize they were still doing this. Why bother? I do like some of the quotes in the media about it, though: OMG, there are "SCORES of protestors." Lol. Civil rights movement, this is not.
 
Hmm, I remember going to get a title for a boat done and they told me it was too late as they were closing in 20 minutes.

I should have stayed standing on my right to force a government building to stay open and let me stay in it long as I want to.

The "oh so sad my parents were arrested" story doesn't hint why they were arrested. If they were told to leave the building and they didn't, yeah, they get arrested - the same as anyone else who is told by whoever is the authorities of the building to leave.

They could protest outside on the sidewalk, but could not block people using the sidewalk nor the road.

Those parents WANTED to get arrested. They climbed up the cross they made themselves and then cry how they are being crucified. I have no sympathy for that. None.

Besides, it's Madison, Wisconsin. There is exactly nothing any Republican could do they would not protest there if anyone called for a protest.
 
I have plenty positive to say about the US but in discussions people normally talk about issues and not about how great things are.

My best friend in the world is American, I spent years daily posting on a Natalee Holloway website, translating Dutch material etc.

And you should read how we criticize Dutch politics, Dutch politicians and Dutch issues. If there is something we disagree with about the Netherlands we write about it, no matter how negative it sometimes gets.

I do not grandstand and being interested is not phony, having an opinion is not misplaced.

If you do not want to read what I write, simple, do not read it. I do not do anything against the forum rules and that you have a dislike of criticism from foreigners is your problem, not mine and I refuse to make it my problem.

So you can complain all you want, as long as I am following forum rules I would like to think that I am free to post here, regardless of your dislikes.

I guess you can't teach class and manners, you either have it or you don't.

If the shoe were on the other foot, though, I'm sure you'd have the exact same opinion I do. That is, if an American went on to a Dutch website and criticized Dutch culture, saying how much better things are in America, I'm sure that American wouldn't be too well-liked.... and for good reason.

If you're talking about your own culture, it's fine to be critical. If you're talking about somebody else's culture and it doesn't affect you at all, know your place. Treat other people with respect.
 
Lol at flag desecration. If you call dropping your flag for the camera desecrating it.

These protest are the adult version of a a child when discovering he has lost a checker game decides to upend the board and ruin the game in disregard of the rules and etiquette befitting a mature person.

Actually its childish nomatter the age.

Old Madison Wisconsin hippies pretending its the 60s. Pitiful.

Hey old people, they don't sell gorilla cookies on Mifflin St anymore. Your day is past.

And they are not "Walker's police."
 
If you're talking about your own culture, it's fine to be critical. If you're talking about somebody else's culture and it doesn't affect you at all, know your place. Treat other people with respect.

^^^Expressing an opinion is not disrespect. I find your post insulting. This website welcomes everyone, and until a thread sticky says, "Only Americans Are Welcome Here," I suggest you treat others with respect.
 
^^^Expressing an opinion is not disrespect. I find your post insulting. This website welcomes everyone, and until a thread sticky says, "Only Americans Are Welcome Here," I suggest you treat others with respect.

Other cultures are certainly welcome here, in fact I never accused him of breaking any rules, I just let him know what he was doing was awkward and it isn't going to win him any friends on this side of the pond.

You don't think there's a difference between criticizing your own culture and criticizing others? Your own culture affects you. You and I have to live under American laws, that's why it matters to us what they are and what direction they're going in. We have a stake in what happens here, and by engaging in debate, we become better voters and more responsible stakeholders.

Somebody like Peter King is being critical....why? Pure academic interest? We're perfectly capable of governing our own country over here, we don't need or want to hear his musings when these things actually affect our daily lives, and I don't mind being the one to stand up for that.
 
Other cultures are certainly welcome here, in fact I never accused him of breaking any rules, I just let him know what he was doing was awkward and it isn't going to win him any friends on this side of the pond.

You don't think there's a difference between criticizing your own culture and criticizing others? Your own culture affects you. You and I have to live under American laws, that's why it matters to us what they are and what direction they're going in. We have a stake in what happens here, and by engaging in debate, we become better voters and more responsible stakeholders.

Somebody like Peter King is being critical....why? Pure academic interest? We're perfectly capable of governing our own country over here, we don't need or want to hear his musings when these things actually affect our daily lives, and I don't mind being the one to stand up for that.

We discuss and criticize other countries' cultures all the time here -- Muslim comes readily to mind. Our Middle East Forum and International Politics Forum comes to mind. Peter King is even a donor to this website. I suggest you are rude and arrogant to presume that someone from another country should not voice an opinion on anything within our United States. (This is my last post on this subject here. Have the last word if you wish.)
 
I didn't realize they were still doing this. Why bother? I do like some of the quotes in the media about it, though: OMG, there are "SCORES of protestors." Lol. Civil rights movement, this is not.
Yuuuuuuup. Everyday. There are even more eternal protestors that are camped out on the SW corner of the square.

I don't see how Wisconsin can get away with what they are doing, or why they are even trying. Their actions fly in the face of what free citizens in a free country are free to do.
They are being a nuisance to the Capitol Police, who are charge with keeping the building secure.
 
We discuss and criticize other countries' cultures all the time here -- Muslim comes readily to mind. Our Middle East Forum and International Politics Forum comes to mind. Peter King is even a donor to this website. I suggest you are rude and arrogant to presume that someone from another country should not voice an opinion on anything within our United States. (This is my last post on this subject here. Have the last word if you wish.)

I've been called a lot worse than "rude and arrogant," so you don't bother me. Sure I'll take the last word. We discuss the Middle East because American troops are serving in the Middle East, and have been for decades. What happens there is directly relevant to our policy.

Not to mention terrorism, which directly affects us.

Anyways, I never said Americans are perfect. Far, far from it. I've lived in several foreign countries, and I can tell you many stories of Americans who travel abroad, only to whine and complain about the host country, and talk about how much better things are back home in America.

That's just as inappropriate as Peter King's antics.
 
Last week during the discussion about shooting down drones, people talked about civil disobedience by shooting down drones. I said that is not civil disobedience but this singing surely is civil disobedience. Purely non-violent and political in nature.

These jack-booted anti-democracy individuals (the chief of police and the ruling party in Wisconsin) must have forgotten that the US is the land of the free and the home of the brave, a country where the first amendment allows the clan and racists/West boro baptist idiots/commies and all can speak their mind freely. And in that country they arrest people for singing and congregating in a peaceful sing a long? That seems behavior right out of a racism 101 course.

Arresting 85 year old people for singing is insane IMHO.
As a Wisconsinite, I could walk into the State Capitol at any time I choose. I would cut through the building on cold days when I had to walk around the square regardless of what was on the agenda or who was meeting at the time. (The Capitol houses both Legislatures, the Supreme Court and the Governor's office.) However that freedom comes with the condition that as long as I am not being disruptive or hostile to the guards, I am able to remain inside the building. Why? There are literally only two doors that separates the outside from the Senate meeting room, or the Supreme Court. It's not a secure building.

I can bet you that sort of "freedom" is not allowed in either the Amsterdam City Hall or the Hague, or any city or state building in your country. Can you walk into your government's buildings and meeting rooms unquestioned? And by your standards, wouldn't that make the Netherlands anti-democracy?
 
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The "oh so sad my parents were arrested" story doesn't hint why they were arrested. They climbed up the cross they made themselves and then cry how they are being crucified.
To me it didn't come across as sad. It came across more like the reporter was proud of her parents.
They could protest outside on the sidewalk, but could not block people using the sidewalk nor the road.
I think the group goes to the building during lunch hour, sings then disperses.
 
I guess you can't teach class and manners, you either have it or you don't.

If the shoe were on the other foot, though, I'm sure you'd have the exact same opinion I do. That is, if an American went on to a Dutch website and criticized Dutch culture, saying how much better things are in America, I'm sure that American wouldn't be too well-liked.... and for good reason.

If you're talking about your own culture, it's fine to be critical. If you're talking about somebody else's culture and it doesn't affect you at all, know your place. Treat other people with respect.

That is rich, lecturing me about class, manners and respecting people. You are attacking me for being Dutch in an almost xenophobe manner and that is the ultimate sign of disrespect IMHO.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but if an American is right about something in my country he will get the thumbs up from me, even if it is something very negative about my country. If I think the person is mistaken and has not been told the right facts I will have a friendly discussion with him or her and nothing more. I will not dislike the man for having a different opinion, and if I did dislike him for having that opinion it would not be because of where he comes from but because I disagree with his/her opinion.

I welcome people disagreeing with me and telling me I am wrong and saying they think I am a dumb idiot for thinking something is fine by me. Correcting me if I have got my facts wrong is fine too.

This is a forum, open to anyone who wants to post here. I am critical at times but do not seek to bash or insult, only to give my opinion as a person about an issue. As said, if you do not like my posts please disregard them but you do not have the right to deny me my opinion or try to make me leave this forum.

So for the last time, I am sorry that you dislike the fact that I have an opinion or that I post here, but as long as I do not break the rules and am allowed by the powers that be on this forum to post my opinions on this site, I will stay here and will not be chased away by your anti-Dutch sentiments.
 
That is rich, lecturing me about class, manners and respecting people. You are attacking me for being Dutch in an almost xenophobe manner and that is the ultimate sign of disrespect IMHO.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but if an American is right about something in my country he will get the thumbs up from me, even if it is something very negative about my country. If I think the person is mistaken and has not been told the right facts I will have a friendly discussion with him or her and nothing more. I will not dislike the man for having a different opinion, and if I did dislike him for having that opinion it would not be because of where he comes from but because I disagree with his/her opinion.

I welcome people disagreeing with me and telling me I am wrong and saying they think I am a dumb idiot for thinking something is fine by me. Correcting me if I have got my facts wrong is fine too.

This is a forum, open to anyone who wants to post here. I am critical at times but do not seek to bash or insult, only to give my opinion as a person about an issue. As said, if you do not like my posts please disregard them but you do not have the right to deny me my opinion or try to make me leave this forum.

So for the last time, I am sorry that you dislike the fact that I have an opinion or that I post here, but as long as I do not break the rules and am allowed by the powers that be on this forum to post my opinions on this site, I will stay here and will not be chased away by your anti-Dutch sentiments.


You are an obstinate fellow over the internet, aren't you? I'm obviously not getting through to you, however I too have a right to my opinion, and my opinion is that your behavior is classless and out of place.

BTW... I can't be xenophobic or anti-European because I myself was born in Europe, I'm a dual EU/US citizen, most of my extended family is in Europe in various countries. I've lived in several countries, and so I speak from experience... you might want to heed my advice.

Just as it's not right for me to go to Europe and brag about the United States while being critical of their decisions, it's not right for Europeans to do the same to Americans. Trust me, we don't want to hear it.
 
You've got a point. However, these sort of "bans" are just because they don't want to listen to the people. It's supposed to be "of the people, for the people, by the people."

You're right, and it is - just that the people have representatives who presumably bring their voice to government. You can argue whether or not these representatives actually do bring their voice to government, but I could also argue that the vast, silent majority isn't represented by the attempts at mob rule. There are lots of ways and places to protest that don't disrupt the operations of government unless, of course, your whole protest is to disrupt the operations of a government you don't support and never did.
 
The cop stepped on it - or did you miss that bit.

How about the end of the video. That's the part I found chilling.

I think its a good bet in general that police are the type of people who respect the flag. But you feel free to judge the intent of a man you do not know. Do you not think it possible it was an accident?

Why do you not criticize the protester for not taking good care of his flag. Ill tell you why. Because that would be exactly as judgmental as you are being to the cop without knowledge.

And i find nothing chilling about the end. One who interferes with the police and ignores instructions to back off while taunting them (passive agressively) verbally should be ready to be zip tied. Jmho.
 
You are an obstinate fellow over the internet, aren't you? I'm obviously not getting through to you, however I too have a right to my opinion, and my opinion is that your behavior is classless and out of place.

BTW... I can't be xenophobic or anti-European because I myself was born in Europe, I'm a dual EU/US citizen, most of my extended family is in Europe in various countries. I've lived in several countries, and so I speak from experience... you might want to heed my advice.

Just as it's not right for me to go to Europe and brag about the United States while being critical of their decisions, it's not right for Europeans to do the same to Americans. Trust me, we don't want to hear it.

No, I am not obstinate, I am opinionated which is something that comes in very handy on an forum on which people discuss opinions, like this forum.

I am going to not try and explain it again to you because you either do not want to hear or are a right-fighter.

Your advice is that I am unworthy of voicing an opinion about something that happens in the US because unlike you I do not live there. My advice is to ignore what I am writing because I am going to keep on respectfully voicing my opinion no matter what.

Live long and Prosper.
 
No, I am not obstinate, I am opinionated which is something that comes in very handy on an forum on which people discuss opinions, like this forum.

I am going to not try and explain it again to you because you either do not want to hear or are a right-fighter.

Your advice is that I am unworthy of voicing an opinion about something that happens in the US because unlike you I do not live there. My advice is to ignore what I am writing because I am going to keep on respectfully voicing my opinion no matter what.

Live long and Prosper.

If you acted respectfully, I wouldn't have to call you out. Parodying "the land of the free, the home of the brave" is NOT respectful. Questioning America's principles of freedom is NOT respectful.

Had you wanted to respectfully discuss the topic, you could have stuck to stating your opinion without making value judgments about others or other nationalities. For example, just say "I believe people have the right to gather and demonstrate in public places without being arrested by law enforcement." And leave it at that.
 
If you acted respectfully, I wouldn't have to call you out. Parodying "the land of the free, the home of the brave" is NOT respectful. Questioning America's principles of freedom is NOT respectful.

Had you wanted to respectfully discuss the topic, you could have stuck to stating your opinion without making value judgments about others or other nationalities. For example, just say "I believe people have the right to gather and demonstrate in public places without being arrested by law enforcement." And leave it at that.

Only in your mind you have to "call me out", if I had broken the forum rules you could have informed the guardians of this forum, they would have set me straight/dealt with me.

You could have disagreed with my posting on the issues and that would have been that, but no you had to disagree with my post on "foreigner" reasonings.

I did not parody "the land of the free and the home of the brave", it was a genuine remark, I may not agree with letting everybody speak their racist minds, but I know how important the first amendment is for Americans. So when I say "the land of free and the home of the brave" I think of :

- Martin Luther King - a brave man who stood up for his freedom of speech
- All US soldiers especially during WW2 - the men and women who bravely laid down their lives for my freedom of speech and my freedom in General. We respect (as people from the province of Limburg, where I live and the only section of my country actually liberated by the US army) the sacrifice of US service men so much that at our local US WW2 cemetery in Margraten, where thousands of heroes are buried, all of the more than 8,000 graves have been adopted by Dutch families and/or school children. Every grave is visited multiple times a year by the family who adopted the graves. They pay for and lay flowers on important days (like memorial day) on the graves of the soldiers.
- the US founding father who fought the British
- Woodrow Wilson who had the vision that led to the league of Nations and after that to the United Nations because he realized that if we stand together there would no longer be world wars anymore
- George C. Marshall who made a peaceful Europe possible
- et. etc. etc.

If people are arrested for political free speech it goes against the sacrifice of all those heroes who laid down their lives or the physical health and liberty for the notion of freedom. If you call that parodying the "land of the free and the home of the brave" comment than that is all down to your warped view of me which causes you to read things into my comment that I did not write and especially did not mean to infer. That is all down to your hangups about me I would guess.

You were the one who did not discuss the issues, you disrespected me by attacking my heritage. I was respecting the heritage of heroes by stating that they did not lay down their lives, prosperity and freedom so that 85 year old singing people who stand up for their political views get arrested for singing and protesting.

We Dutch love the Americans, we were one of the first (if not the first) to recognize the US as a free country. We have a bond of friendship going back to colonial times, New Amsterdam. Even now parts of NY are named after Dutch cities etc.
On the 16th of November 1776, the Dutch were the first foreign country to salute the American Flag. On 19 April 1782 John Adams was received by the States General in The Hague and recognized as Minister Plenipotentiary of the United States of America. The house that Adams purchased in The Hague became the first American embassy in the world.

I have had American friends growing up, I have had American servicemen as neighbors, we have opened our home to an American family when a US school visited our area to give a dancing show. My best friend in the world is an American.

That you read things into my posts that are not there is your problem not mine. It is your disrespecting me rather than me disrespecting the US people because that is all in your mind IMHO that is the issue.
 
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Yes. You said that the affair was "fake" and then you cited their pre-event planning to support your assertion.

I would go to their website and pull their comments from there to decide what I thought they were doing.
Is there anything there which discusses destroying capitalism?

And that is evidence that their stated goals are just a cover for wanting to destroy Capitalism?


What is the "fake" part of the event?

"Damn dude follow along a little better"

People are protesting via civil disobedience. There's video of it. Seems pretty straight forward, imho.

The "local chatter" seems to be an indicator that the groups has "garnered enough support though to even get people half interested." Ymmv.

But the locals who are doing the talking are only quarter interested, but not half interested? Or what exactly?

Ok you are having a real hard time following me and I doubt that you will ever accept any of my assertions so I will just end it here.
 
they took the risk of being arrested. Before there were citations which I think I read were usually beaten in court, but now the powers that be escalated their power play and yes, that included the risk of arrest. But to say they went there intending to be arrested seems a bit o.t.t. (over the top).

To get arrested is the main tactic of this type of civil disobedience. If they were just there singing and the authorities didnt threaten to arrest or actually arrest anyone then we would have never heard about their little stunts. The concept of civil disobedience is to break minor laws as a protest and to gain attention of the people. Without some getting arrested then their message would not be heard.

Why do you think someone would refuse to give their information to the police during a protest? Do you think that they thought that by refusing to do what the cops insisted that they wouldnt get arrested? Isnt this protest a political protest wasnt the people arrested knowledgeable adults?


Seriously these people knew exactly who was going to get arrested beforehand, its par for course for a action planed by the lawyers guild. The lawyers guild has legal knowledge do they not? They would completely understand the difference between being in a building that has posted hours when it closes and outside of a building.

If these people were not going against known rules in a public building then there wouldnt be any problems. But they knew that by breaking these known rules that they would get the reaction that wanted. Which was to make it appear to be something more than it was.

But I really dont care what a group of idiots who think that they can defy the the closing time of a public building have to say. And its meaningless that they get themselves arrested from time to time.

Why dont you go down to your local courthouse or town hall and try to sing just before closing time and report back to us what happens? DO you really think that they will let you stay after the posted closing time? Do you really think that these people in Wisconsin believed that they would just away with what they are doing? Seriously go to any damn public building and refuse to leave, I bet at some point you should expect the police to show up. Then go back the next day, and the day after that, and on and on and on. It should be obvious that you would be arrested at some point.

SO either these protesters knew and some wanted to be arrested or they are a bunch of morons.
 
According to the article a group of people had been gathering and singing at the Capitol for over 700 days.
The news had been tipped off that something big was going to happen with the Capitol police but they( the news people) did not know who the target was going to be.

Therefore I do not agree that the objective of the singers was to get arrested.

Just my 2 cents.
 
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