Why is the average firearm owner, an unsafe gun owner?

[Uncensored2008]

Perhaps they do. What I know is that we have lots of both legal and illegal immigrants living in my community . And our crime rates are likley lower than yours .
You are welcome to believe it’s due to deMS13.

What I know is that studies show that illegal immigrants are more law abiding than citizens.

That's a common leftist claim - that like most claims of the left is simply not true.

Are Illegal Immigrants More Law-Abiding Than Citizens? Signs Point to 'No.'

redstate.com

And we have had illegal immigration increasing while crime has been decreasing.

Violent crime increased under Biden.

“Both the FBI and BJS data show dramatic declines in U.S. violent and property crime rates since the early 1990s, when crime spiked across much of the nation.

Yet from 2021 through 2024 it increased.

Using the FBI data, the violent crime rate fell 49% between 1993 and 2022, with large decreases in the rates of robbery (-74%), aggravated assault (-39%) and murder/nonnegligent manslaughter (-34%)”

Interestingly,
“Americans tend to believe crime is up, even when official data shows it is down.

In 23 of 27 Gallup surveys conducted since 1993, at least 60% of U.S. adults have said there is more crime nationally than there was the year before, despite the downward trend in crime rates during most of that period.“

What the data says about crime in the U.S.

Federal statistics show dramatic declines in U.S. violent and property crime rates since the early 1990s.

www.pewresearch.org

Again, you depend on an era that is passed. We all know that crime rates fell as 3 strikes laws and concealed carry flourished. During Obama's third term, the pro-criminal movement saw that long trend start reversing.

Like I said , I believe facts over fearmongering.

Sounds more like you believe anything democrats tell you.

Particularly when that fear mongering is done by politicians creating fear to violate our rights.

And illegal aliens have the right to be here. America doesn't have the right to have borders or the rule of law.

Whether to enact gun control, or creating fear to accept suspension of due process.

I can list verbiage from Constitution that guarantees my right to have and CARRY a gun. Can you point to the part of the Constitution that says illegal aliens have a right to be here?

 

[jaeger19]

Shooting sports are just that sports for recreation. Unless you are professional shooter which the number is infinitesimal. I used to shoot for recreation too. Loved me some turkey soots at our local Wurstmarts. Also did a lot of target shooting. All recreational meaning I was using my guns as toys.

So you were speaking of YOURSELF, when you said gun owners are unsafe.

 

[jaeger19]

That's a common leftist claim - that like most claims of the left is simply not true.

Are Illegal Immigrants More Law-Abiding Than Citizens? Signs Point to 'No.'

redstate.com

Violent crime increased under Biden.



Yet from 2021 through 2024 it increased.



Again, you depend on an era that is passed. We all know that crime rates fell as 3 strikes laws and concealed carry flourished. During Obama's third term, the pro-criminal movement saw that long trend start reversing.



Sounds more like you believe anything democrats tell you.



And illegal aliens have the right to be here. America doesn't have the right to have borders or the rule of law.



I can list verbiage from Constitution that guarantees my right to have and CARRY a gun. Can you point to the part of the Constitution that says illegal aliens have a right to be here?

Yeah no.
You conveniently forget that illegal immigration has steadily increased during that time period. And the number of illegal in America increased.

And during Biden crime reached near a 50 year low.

Loading…

www.congress.gov

As far as the constitution.

14th amendment

“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

The mafia fools don’t realize the importance of the 14th amendment and that “ANY person” means any person.

What stops trump from deporting YOU, simply saying you aren’t a citizen and have no right to be here?

Oh yeah. Due process which allows you to go before a judge and force the executive branch to prove you are not a citizen.

 

[RF667799]

EEEEEEE misuse of the term but thanks for playing.

No, your conclusion directly referred to your premise as support.

But perhaps it could be more accurately described as non sequitur.

 

[RF667799]

Again for most people yes. If you are a recreational boat owner versus a commercial fisherman you are going to much more likely to engage in dangerous/unsafe activity. The same with everything you state. 71% of all fatal accidents at pools occur at private residences. It is far safer to go swimming at public or private pool operated professionally than it is to use one at a private residence. The fact that you throw out so many obviously bs arguments against this betrays how uncomfortable you are with it. That doesn’t change the facts.

Your big problem with your narrative is there are less than 500 accidental fatalities per year among 100 million gun owners. This is very poor evidence for the proposition that gun owners are generally unsafe.

 

[RF667799]

BS analogy people get injured all the time on the job. People make decisions on what safety equipment they avail themselves of all the time. That does nothing to change the point. If you have a lethal weapon as a toy you are much less likely to view it as lethal weapon than if it you use as tool professionally. I am sorry this seems to bother you so much but that is on you. The point is simple and obvious.

Your point is as apt to be presumptuous projection as anything else.

 

[RF667799]

Nonsense. But thanks (not really) for playing. The concept is a simple one. The fact that you are so agitated by it that you must come up with asinine reasons in an attempt to debunk it says a lot about you. I think you need to re-examine some things.

I think you need to be more careful when you are recklessly using your car as a toy.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Yeah no.
You conveniently forget that illegal immigration has steadily increased during that time period. And the number of illegal in America increased.

And that makes you happy

And during Biden crime reached near a 50 year low.

Loading…

www.congress.gov

Dude, that is Politifraud.

THIS is the actual house document.

Loading…

judiciary.house.gov

As far as the constitution.

14th amendment

“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

That's nice. But we are speaking of illegal aliens - not citizens.

Let me ask you, as I've asked nearly every leftist who trots out these talking points, "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States;" What privileges or immunities do US Citizens have that you don't accrue to illegals?

It appears that you are attempting to erase US Citizenship, along with our borders.

The mafia fools don’t realize the importance of the 14th amendment and that “ANY person” means any person.

What stops trump from deporting YOU, simply saying you aren’t a citizen and have no right to be here?

Oh yeah. Due process which allows you to go before a judge and force the executive branch to prove you are not a citizen.

So, another DP Conservative® who is anti-second Amendment and seeks open borders. With "conservatives" (lol) like this, who needs Marxists?

 

[jaeger19]

BS analogy people get injured all the time on the job. People make decisions on what safety equipment they avail themselves of all the time. That does nothing to change the point. If you have a lethal weapon as a toy you are much less likely to view it as lethal weapon than if it you use as tool professionally. I am sorry this seems to bother you so much but that is on you. The point is simple and obvious.

Sure they get injured all the time. Which pretty much negates your whole “, but but if they are used as tools they are safe”

If you have a lethal weapon, you are likley to view it as a lethal weapon.

I don’t view , nor do most gun owners view their guns as “ toys”.
Go to any hunter safety education class. Required in all states for people to begin hunting and you will hear over and over “ firearms aren’t toys”

And you KNOW that which is why you called them “ toys” here. You did that specifically to annoy all the firearm owners here that specifically DONT see their firearms as “ toys”.

You used YOUR definition of “ toy” as any device not used for survival or economic gain.

That however does not mean that the average gun owner defines their firearm as a “ toy”

It just means that YOU define your firearms as toys and define yourself as unsafe.

 

[RF667799]

Sure they get injured all the time. Which pretty much negates your whole “, but but if they are used as tools they are safe”

If you have a lethal weapon, you are likley to view it as a lethal weapon.

I don’t view , nor do most gun owners view their guns as “ toys”.
Go to any hunter safety education class. Required in all states for people to begin hunting and you will hear over and over “ firearms aren’t toys”

And you KNOW that which is why you called them “ toys” here. You did that specifically to annoy all the firearm owners here that specifically DONT see their firearms as “ toys”.

You used YOUR definition of “ toy” as any device not used for survival or economic gain.

That however does not mean that the average gun owner defines their firearm as a “ toy”

It just means that YOU define your firearms as toys and define yourself as unsafe.

Yep, the entire effort was an attempt to marginalize gun owners.

Despite claiming he wasn't opposed to recreation- when called on that- he is now laughably forced into condemning many recreational activities on the same basis.

I love it when they squirm.

 

[Lursa]

Read the OP then get back to me.

I did. You seem to think that we can legislate responsibility. That's not very rational.

Just this week we had a cop's kid shoot up his college campus and kill 2. I've posted many times other incidents where cops' kids got their guns and killed others or themselves.

How much training does it take? Either you lock them up or secure them as appropriate in your home or you dont. You cant make people be responsible...not even cops.

So beyond gun storage...what's your "responsibility" issue? What else is "irresponsible?"

 

[jaeger19]

And that makes you happy



Dude, that is Politifraud.

THIS is the actual house document.

Loading…

judiciary.house.gov

That's nice. But we are speaking of illegal aliens - not citizens.

Let me ask you, as I've asked nearly every leftist who trots out these talking points, "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States;" What privileges or immunities do US Citizens have that you don't accrue to illegals?

It appears that you are attempting to erase US Citizenship, along with our borders.


So, another DP Conservative® who is anti-second Amendment and seeks open borders. With "conservatives" (lol) like this, who needs Marxists?

1. Nope. I defy you to find any post where I am happy about illegal immigration .
You are of course welcome to provide a citation refuting the fbi data
As far as your citation? Come now, it’s surely not objective.

“VIOLENT CRIME IN AMERICA: HOW THE PRO-CRIMINAL, ANTI-LAW
ENFORCEMENT POLICIES EMBRACED BY THE BIDEN-HARRIS ADMINSTRATION ENDANGER ALL AMERICANS.

Facts are facts and all data points to a long standing decrease in crime even under the Biden administration.

2. What privileges don’t illegals here have?
The right to work, own firearms, vote, etc. it’s all clearly defined by law.

What privileges DO any person has in the us?
The right to due process.

I ask this of all my righty friends who claim to be for small government.
What stops trump or any president from simply deporting you or incarcerating you by claiming you aren’t in the us legally??

You say “ but I am a citizen”. So you claim, but trump claims you are not and for you, that’s all you or anybody else needs.

So off you go.

3. Not at all. I want to protect it. You want citizenship to be decided simply by the whims of a government branch.
Perhaps in the future a president finds your views dangerous and simply deports you claiming you are not a citizen.
What recourse should you have?

4. Who are you talking about? Certainly not me . I defy you to find any post that is “ anti second amendment”

I am afraid you simply cannot handle the truth.

 

[Uncensored2008]

1. Nope. I defy you to find any post where I am happy about illegal immigration .
You are of course welcome to provide a citation refuting the fbi data
As far as your citation? Come now, it’s surely not objective.

“VIOLENT CRIME IN AMERICA: HOW THE PRO-CRIMINAL, ANTI-LAW
ENFORCEMENT POLICIES EMBRACED BY THE BIDEN-HARRIS ADMINSTRATION ENDANGER ALL AMERICANS.

Facts are facts and all data points to a long standing decrease in crime even under the Biden administration.

LOL

So the actual Congressional hearing is "not credible?"

Unless it's the democrats.

2. What privileges don’t illegals here have?
The right to work, own firearms, vote, etc. it’s all clearly defined by law.

But you just demanded they have the right to be here and cannot be deported

What privileges DO any person has in the us?
The right to due process.

Due process for those here illegally is to be fed and treated humanely as the are removed from the country.

THAT is the law.

I ask this of all my righty friends who claim to be for small government.
What stops trump or any president from simply deporting you or incarcerating you by claiming you aren’t in the us legally??

I'm a US Citizen.

You of the left tend to deny that is a thing, but it is.

You say “ but I am a citizen”. So you claim, but trump claims you are not and for you, that’s all you or anybody else needs.

What? Is this the new lefty talking point?

How laughable.

Do off you go.

3. Not at all. I want to protect it. You want citizenship to be decided simply by the whims of a government branch.
Perhaps in the future a president finds your views dangerous and simply deports you claiming you are not a citizen.
What recourse should you have?

Citizens are those born in the USA to legal citizens and those naturalized through the process proscribed by law. Have you not had basic civics? Tune away from MSNBC for a little balance.

4. Who are you talking about? Certainly not me . I defy you to find any post that is “ anti second amendment”

Weren't you the one demanding that firearms and ammunition be stored separately?

I am afraid you simply cannot handle the truth.

LOL

 

[jaeger19]

LOL

So the actual Congressional hearing is "not credible?"

Unless it's the democrats.


But you just demanded they have the right to be here and cannot be deported



Due process for those here illegally is to be fed and treated humanely as the are removed from the country.

THAT is the law.



I'm a US Citizen.

You of the left tend to deny that is a thing, but it is.



What? Is this the new lefty talking point?

How laughable.



Citizens are those born in the USA to legal citizens and those naturalized through the process proscribed by law. Have you not had basic civics? Tune away from MSNBC for a little balance.



Weren't you the one demanding that firearms and ammunition be stored separately?



LOL

1. Well yes since it ignores actual fbi data.
Of course it does so for political reasons.
2. nope. Stop lying. I said they have the right to due process.
You magas are so full of lies and bs. You make lefties look like honest angels.
3. no thats not the law. Due process means they have the right to go before the judiciary and question their detainment and deportation. And to have actual evidence produced against them.

4. So you say you are a citizen. How would you prove it? Birth certificate? Oops no birthright citizenship.
Besides who do you get to prove you are a citizen to? If president biden said you weren’t a citizen then it’s good enough for you right?

I mean why should the president of the us have to prove in court that you are not a citizen before deporting you? According to you we should just believe our president when he says you are a gang member here illegally.

5. Sorry, no birthright citizenship anymore.
Trump says.
Next?

6. No. I never ever demanded that firearms and ammunition be stored separately you ridiculous dude.

7. You can’t. Truth hurts. It’s why you had to lie about my positions.

It’s uncomfortably for you to find out that you are for big government control isn’t it?

 

[Scatty Kitty]

I did. You seem to think that we can legislate responsibility. That's not very rational.

We literally can legislate and make people drive different speeds. Heck the number of trees in a neighborhood affects car speeds. It's completely rational to have policy that encourages people to act responsibly.

Just this week we had a cop's kid shoot up his college campus and kill 2. I've posted many times other incidents where cops' kids got their guns and killed others or themselves.

How much training does it take? Either you lock them up or secure them as appropriate in your home or you dont. You cant make people be responsible...not even cops.

So beyond gun storage...what's your "responsibility" issue? What else is "irresponsible?"

If you read the OP you would see a second one as well. Storing firearms and ammo separate.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

Wow that's some rigorous logic.

You're okay generalizing about 100 million people on the basis of one incident.

Thanks for showing that bigotry drives your ridiculous arguments.

If police officers aren't expected to properly take care of their guns, if guns are the number one killer of children in the US, if an NRA instructor doesn't know how to properly handle firearms, then all of these incidents point towards one conclusion, gun owners just don't know how to responsibly use firearms.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

The majority of gun deaths are suicide.

Japan has a FAR higher rate of suicide than America, yet guns are outlawed. The claim of the Anti-Liberty left that outlawing guns will reduce these deaths is an obvious lie.

Accidental death due to discharge of a rifle, including those that have plastic on them, is close to none. Everything gun grabbers claim in their war on civil rights is false. Guns save innocent lives. Guns provide the average person the means to effectively defend themselves, their families, and property.

Which is no doubt why deMS-13 want guns outlawed. Armed victims often don't submit to being victims.

So gun owners are being responsible with their firearms when they use it on themselves? I mean listen I know what you're getting at but sources 1,2,3 in the OP all deal with this post. Please let me know when you've looked at them.

 

[Lursa]

We literally can legislate and make people drive different speeds. Heck the number of trees in a neighborhood affects car speeds. It's completely rational to have policy that encourages people to act responsibly.

Not really. You can punish them if you catch them. "Everybody" speeds so that's not a very good example. It does encourage responsibility...but it doesnt make people responsible...which is what I claimed.

If you read the OP you would see a second one as well. Storing firearms and ammo separate.

That's part of storage...what did you think I was referring to? Access and storage. Now...what else is in your lack of "responsibility" category?

 

[jaeger19]

We literally can legislate and make people drive different speeds. Heck the number of trees in a neighborhood affects car speeds. It's completely rational to have policy that encourages people to act responsibly.



If you read the OP you would see a second one as well. Storing firearms and ammo separate.

1. Just to point out that doesn’t MAKE people responsible for, it simply punishes those who are not. ( or really those that get caught)

When you drive are the vast najority of drivers doing the speed limit or less. Or are the vast majority doing some level above the speed limit?

 

[Lursa]

If police officers aren't expected to properly take care of their guns, if guns are the number one killer of children in the US, if an NRA instructor doesn't know how to properly handle firearms, then all of these incidents point towards one conclusion, gun owners just don't know how to responsibly use firearms.

What a silly statement. They "know," we all know. And "storage and access" isnt even "using" firearms.

The 4 universal rules of gun safety are simple and gun owners "know" them. They're not hard to remember or understand.

Make an argument and stick wiith it. But "knowing" and "being responsible" are 2 completely different things.

 

[smb3802]

Identical to the claim you made. Which was indeed nonsense.


ROFL

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Trying to apply nonsensical claims to some objects and exempting others is just hypocrisy.

Nonsensical claims because you say they are? Yeah that holds a lot of weight...not. The statistics and facts are clear. The conclusion is obvious. It pervades throughot our society. Rec boating accidents, rec atv accidents, private pool accidents, I could go on in any category you want. Recreational use equates to more accidents. Your BS opinion notwithstanding.

 

[jaeger19]

Nonsensical claims because you say they are? Yeah that holds a lot of weight...not. The statistics and facts are clear. The conclusion is obvious. It pervades throughot our society. Rec boating accidents, rec atv accidents, private pool accidents, I could go on in any category you want. Recreational use equates to more accidents. Your BS opinion notwithstanding.

Only because there are more rec boats out on the lakes than working boats.
Not because their owners are more unsafe.

 

[smb3802]

No, your conclusion directly referred to your premise as support.

But perhaps it could be more accurately described as non sequitur.

Negative. My conclusion is based on statistical analyses across a broad spectrum. Sorry you don't like facts.

 

[RF667799]

Negative. My conclusion is based on statistical analyses across a broad spectrum. Sorry you don't like facts.

Hence most gun owners don't take proper safety precautions because their guns are toys.

I must have missed all the "statistical analysis across a broad spectrum" you supplied.

 

[JMB1911A1]

We literally can legislate and make people drive different speeds.

You can’t MAKE people drive different speeds. All a sign does is tell me the piont at which I decide if speeding is worthwhile.

Heck the number of trees in a neighborhood affects car speeds. It's completely rational to have policy that encourages people to act responsibly.

If you read the OP you would see a second one as well. Storing firearms and ammo separate.