Why is private school performance better than public school

[Mikkel]

You won't recognize the solution I have provided even if it jumped up and bit your face. And while I talk about schooling, you want to lard into it all kinds of irrelevent things.

Gosh, let me try! :mrgreen:

Government schools can't be considered a "solution" unless they liquidate the national debt, resolve the Iraq war, and find a cure for prostate cancer! :lol:

Like it or not, pal, but government schooling is the status quo. I don't have the burden of proof that you do. So you can sit there as smugly as you want and ignore my questions, but like it or not, they're questions that will have to be answered if you ever actually tried to privatize schooling. Imperfect though it may be, public schooling isn't going anywhere.

As for 'larding' into irrelevent things... if you take a good look back, YOU were the first one to bring up the 'thugs' issue, not me. And I know you don't care about certain groups... say, teachers... or, the poor, but, believe it or not, they do have a thing or two to do with schooling.

 

[goligoth]

This nation has a debt? That is strange...

yes....quite a bit of debt actually, it is in the billions I believe.....does anyone know the exact number?

 

[BodiSatva]

Are you making fun of my sarcasm goligoth?

Are you genuinely not aware that there is a national debt of over 8 trillion dollars?

 

[BodiSatva]

Here you go…

www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm

 

[goligoth]

Are you making fun of my sarcasm goligoth?

Are you genuinely not aware that there is a national debt of over 8 trillion dollars?

oh that was sarcasm....I wasn't making fun of it or you...I just didn't know the exact number.

trillions eh...and how exactly can we be the most powerful country in the world if we've got 8 trillion dollars debt?

 

[BodiSatva]

THAT, is a great question.

And why would we let China and Saudi Arabia buy much of our debt?
There is a lot of garbage out there that the people do not understand.

 

[alphamale]

Like it or not, pal, but government schooling is the status quo.

So WHAT??? Slavery was the status quo in 1860. :roll:

I don't have the burden of proof that you do.

I don't have the burden of facts that you do:

- Schools as brainwashing platforms for libs
- Scores on tests at the bottom of the first world and some third world countries
- Violence
- Incompetent teachers protected by tenure
- A drain on taxpayers who don't have children

 

[Mikkel]

So WHAT??? Slavery was the status quo in 1860. :roll:



I don't have the burden of facts that you do:

- Schools as brainwashing platforms for libs
- Scores on tests at the bottom of the first world and some third world countries
- Violence
- Incompetent teachers protected by tenure
- A drain on taxpayers who don't have children

Due to the fact that, at this point, you're merely regurgitating the Republican party platform, you are the most convincing argument against our school systems. Be sure to let me know when you come up with some original thoughts of your own, rather than simply spouting conservative rhetoric whenever you get a chance.

(as for the slavery reference: are you suggesting we fight a war over the public school system? If so, you'll lose. Big. Public schools are everywhere, slavery didn't exist in half of the states. Finally, regardless of whether or not it would be better to switch to a private system, someone still needs to convince me (the voter) why that change would be a positive thing. As someone who simply ignores my relevent point when they are made, I'd choose a more articulate representative to argue your position.)

 

[alphamale]

Finally, regardless of whether or not it would be better to switch to a private system, someone still needs to convince me (the voter) why that change would be a positive thing. As someone who simply ignores my relevent point when they are made, I'd choose a more articulate representative to argue your position.)

I've shown you, but your brain is surounded with teflon. You keep repeating variations of the above robot speech, like some cheap doll made in Hong Kong, no matter what is said to you. Basically you are afraid to debate.:roll:

 

[hipsterdufus]

So WHAT??? Slavery was the status quo in 1860. :roll:

I don't have the burden of facts that you do:

- Schools as brainwashing platforms for libs
- Scores on tests at the bottom of the first world and some third world countries
- Violence
- Incompetent teachers protected by tenure
- A drain on taxpayers who don't have children

If libs were doing such a good job brainwashing kids in school we would be winning election after election after election.

I'm all for getting rid of incompetent teachers - tenure shouldn't protect incompetence.

A drain on taxpayers who don't have children

It's the difference between the me me me GOP and the we we we Dems. Take this example a step further. Why should I pay taxes on roads I don't drive? On wars I don't support? On stadiums I don't attend? The list goes on and on.

 

[Mikkel]

I've shown you, but your brain is surounded with teflon. You keep repeating variations of the above robot speech, like some cheap doll made in Hong Kong, no matter what is said to you. Basically you are afraid to debate.:roll:

I'm happy to debate, but not with someone who cherry picks my arguments without addressing all of the issues at hand. I'm not exactly sure what 'robot speech' you're referring to. I can assure you the only reason I would repeat something is either because you've already ignored it or you weren't getting what I was trying to say. The solutions you've given me are vague, at best. From what I can deduce from your arguments thus far, is that you're advocating the exact same school system we have now, except privately run. This may make it cheaper for some people to send their kids to school, but it will make it much more expensive for many more parents. Other than that, I don't see how it will be any different from the way things are now. Your argument that private schools are more efficient, which they currently are, can't simply be applied to nationwide privatization simply because 'you say so,' which seems to make up a lot of your argument. Back yourself up!

As I've said before (and I'm repeating this because you didn't seem to catch it before), I'm not attempting to defend the current system, I'm attacking yours. I don't need to defend the current system, partially because I'm not particularly proud of it, partially because it isn't going to change. Since the sweeping change you're advocating is quite radical, I think the least you could do would be to delve into some more detail, or at least back your arguments with examples.

 

[BodiSatva]

Great points Hipster...it is the whole Social Contract thing (which may be a little out of control nowadays)

We obey the government and the government protects our rights.
IT protects our rights...OUR rights.

It does certain things that allow society to function smoothly so that it can ensure the rights for the many rather than the some.

I pay for taxes on all sorts of things that I will never use in my entire life and that some of you might be using...

I don't live on or use welfare...medical...low-income housing...I don't speak Thai, so having DMV tests in 16 languages does nothing for me...I barely speak Spanish, so having citizenship tests in Spanish deos nothing for me...where do we end...and why do both sides have to play the lame blame game?

The whole "I don't have kids so why should I have to pay" arguement is weak and obviously not well thought out.

alphamale does not know how to debate...he simply hurls out stuff and then evades the counterpoint...instead opting to nit-pick something else...

Great points as well Mikkel...Private system may in fact end up being better...but we must be shown that it is so, not simply told that it will be so. Privatization does in fact work well in many instances where governemtn fails...utility companies...low-income housing...emergency medical services...etc. I am not sure that it could be done with education though...but I am also not sure that it could be a lot worse...

 

[alphamale]

alphamale does not know how to debate...he simply hurls out stuff and then evades the counterpoint...instead opting to nit-pick something else...

Cowardly third person bashing with nothing to back it up.

 

[tecoyah]

Cowardly third person bashing with nothing to back it up.

Unless of course....someone bothered to see you p!ss your pants when I attempted to draw you into actual debate. Give up now BetaPup....you have already lost what little respect you may have once had (though it seems it was ephemeral from the start).

 

[alphamale]

Unless of course....someone bothered to see you p!ss your pants when I attempted to draw you into actual debate. Give up now BetaPup....you have already lost what little respect you may have once had (though it seems it was ephemeral from the start).

You haven't made any substantial posts in this thread - you're hallucinating. Why are you following me around? You're not ...... gay..... or anything, are you? :shock:

 

[tecoyah]

You haven't made any substantial posts in this thread - you're hallucinating. Why are you following me around? You're not ...... gay..... or anything, are you? :shock:

I see, and we have all gained dramatically from the substance hidden deep within your wonderous posts here? If by chance, I were Gay.....I am quite sure the view of your face would scare me strait, and I would require therapy from Naughty Nurse to aleviate my nightmares....mmmm....Monkeys.

The public school issue seems to me to revolve around a cultural issue. While it does look as if there is a lower standard set forth concerning these schools, much of the problem is self perpetuating. I would recommend we look at this from a different angle, and instead seek the differences between Inner City and suburban, public schools. This is where the real difference is obvious.

 

[alphamale]

I see, and we have all gained dramatically from the substance hidden deep within your wonderous posts here? If by chance, I were Gay.....I am quite sure the view of your face would scare me strait, and I would require therapy from Naughty Nurse to aleviate my nightmares....mmmm....Monkeys.

The public school issue seems to me to revolve around a cultural issue. While it does look as if there is a lower standard set forth concerning these schools, much of the problem is self perpetuating. I would recommend we look at this from a different angle, and instead seek the differences between Inner City and suburban, public schools. This is where the real difference is obvious.

Once again using "we" as a kind of half-a$$ed phony reinforcement of your non-contributions, as if you've been elected forum spokesman, is the mark of a wuss. Also, you actually HAVE brought up a good point - the "real difference" is the social pathologies of the blacks, engendered by 70 years of the liberal welfare state.

 

[tecoyah]

Once again using "we" as a kind of half-a$$ed phony reinforcement of your non-contributions, as if you've been elected forum spokesman, is the mark of a wuss.

I am hard pressed to firure out what you just said, But if I had to guess it would seem my use of the term "We" as a means to address the comminity discussing the issue in this thread, didnt jive with your form of English. I was also unaware of an election, or the need for a spokesman, though considering the possible inclusion of yourself in the run-off, I can see where I might take the Job.


Also, you actually HAVE brought up a good point - the "real difference" is the social pathologies of the blacks, engendered by 70 years of the liberal welfare state.

I do see poverty as a major player in public school failure, though the Race card is overplayed in my opinion. The percieved need you have to Bash both "Blacks" and "Liberals" in your sentance does little to further a discussion on the issue, but it seems to be your style of debate if indeed it can be called a style.

This (poverty) is part of the self perpetuating cycle that eats away at education in the public schools. Regardless of someones skin color, having no resources to accomplish a task tends to make the task far more difficult. We see this on a Micro, and Macro scale in inner city school systems. Both the individual attending the school, and the infrastructure of the school itself (physical and administrative) lack the tools to place learning as a priority. Added to these inefficiencies are the capabilities of uneducated parents to add to a childs knowledge, which in my opinion is the key to developing the young mind.
Thus a child grows up untrained, and undereducated...which will be perpetuated in the offspring of that child as well. It may very well be true that urban population are predominantly black, but this is societal issue, created by the circumstances of this coutry by past descisions. The key is to change those circumstance, rather than accept them and watch the status Quo continue to eat away at our population. I only wish I knew "How" to make the change.

 

[BodiSatva]

Not cowardly... these are just observations based off of this debate as well as the ones that I engaged you in.

Cowardly was not addressing the points that I made when I burned the heck out of you repeatedly...evasion is the mark of a true coward. Duck and weave while chucking out insults...good move their heor boy!

I, as well as tecoyah, whom is our spokesperson, have all concluded that you are indeed only worth a what you give...and that is nothing.

Take it easy Spokesperson Tecoyah....

 

[Mikkel]

Not cowardly... these are just observations based off of this debate as well as the ones that I engaged you in.

Cowardly was not addressing the points that I made when I burned the heck out of you repeatedly...evasion is the mark of a true coward. Duck and weave while chucking out insults...good move their heor boy!

I, as well as tecoyah, whom is our spokesperson, have all concluded that you are indeed only worth a what you give...and that is nothing.

Take it easy Spokesperson Tecoyah....

I wholeheartedly second this remark.

 

[alphamale]

I do see poverty as a major player in public school failure, though the Race card is overplayed in my opinion. The percieved need you have to Bash both "Blacks" and "Liberals" in your sentance does little to further a discussion on the issue, but it seems to be your style of debate if indeed it can be called a style.

The liberal welfare state as a perpetuator of blacks in an underclass has been written about in enough books to fill ten libraries. If you are somehow amazingly uniformed about this, I suggest you go read up on it and come back when you know something.

This (poverty) is part of the self perpetuating cycle that eats away at education in the public schools. Regardless of someones skin color, having no resources to accomplish a task tends to make the task far more difficult. We see this on a Micro, and Macro scale in inner city school systems. Both the individual attending the school, and the infrastructure of the school itself (physical and administrative) lack the tools to place learning as a priority. Added to these inefficiencies are the capabilities of uneducated parents to add to a childs knowledge, which in my opinion is the key to developing the young mind.

Teacher Union propaganda. If "resources" means e.g. per pupil spending, the Washington DC schools (to pick one example) have WAY more spending per pupil than the national average, and WAY WAY more spending per pupil than many industrialized countries, but produce wretched results.

Thus a child grows up untrained, and undereducated...which will be perpetuated in the offspring of that child as well. It may very well be true that urban population are predominantly black, but this is societal issue, created by the circumstances of this coutry by past descisions. The key is to change those circumstance, rather than accept them and watch the status Quo continue to eat away at our population. I only wish I knew "How" to make the change.

You are correct it's based on past decisions, and the past decision is america's irrational love affair with government schools - and the change needed is to privatize them. The status quo is none otherb than the government schools. Why can't some people grasp this obvious truth??

 

[tecoyah]

This is quite possibly the first post of any substance I have seen from you Alphamale....and is enough to ignore the insulting nature of your style, Good Job.