Why I'm done with religious threads

[niftydrifty]

Name names? Any religion. All religions. How is anyone supposed to take any of them seriously????? Not a one of them has any sort of credible collaborative evidence supporting their dogma. To whine and complain that religion isn't taken seriously or that it is mocked is rather pointless.

Why shouldn't it be mocked? On what basis should any non-believer respect any believers creed when there is not a single logical rational shred of evidence that there is a God or Gods?

I have a huge interest in aliens and all things alien. But I don't run around expecting others to have serious discussions with me on the topic of little green men killing cattle and anal probing humans.

If religious folks want respect in regards to their religious ideologies they are going to have to earn it with some credible evidence. Till such time it's completely appropriate and expected that their "notions" be treated just as any other whacked out illogical theories with no credible evidence on anything else are treated.

Religion is not special.

You're free to feel that way, of course. I was only asking for you to provide evidence in support of your conclusion. In response, you just kept on being vague. And in addition, I don't recall anyone complaining or whining that religion isn't taken seriously. It seems like you're a little huffed up about it all, and are therefore swinging at fastballs, but just plain missing 'em altogether. Kinda ironic. The "whining" the topic of this here thread that you are participating in, is about, is when individuals here, at DP, on this forum, are mocked, not religion as a whole.

 

[The silenced majority]

Seriously though, since all religion is based on faith not science, you'll always end up losing any fact-based argument.

Explain how logic exists in a scientific way.

 

[theangryamerican]

But you do need to give up the holier than thou act and get over yourself.

Would you like a bigger brush to paint you broad, sweeping generalizations...or care to specifically point out offending parties in this thread?

If you're actually up for opening your mind a bit, give Josh Mcdowell's book, A Ready Defense a read. You'd like it, it's about a skeptic atheist and his journey to disprove the Bible.

 

[niftydrifty]

I just want to share an anecdote with y'all. This is probably as good a place or a time to do so.

Not too long ago, Jehovah's Witnesses knocked on my door. I didn't know much about JWs other than they were fundamentalists. (I'm not). They told me some things about what they believed, and in part of their statement they talked about how they disagreed with the teaching of evolution (I don't). So I chose to engage them.

I tried to be polite, and I asked them why they believed what they did, and also about what some of their other beliefs were. After hearing some more, I explained to them, how I, a Christian, had a completely different opinion about what religion actually is.

So there we were, a group of "religious people," standing on my porch, but disagreeing about what religion even is. How can this be?

Every time I hear an atheist make a sweeping generalization about "religious people," I have to wonder which ones they mean. Or what they mean.

Or if they even know what they mean.

BTW, I don't believe in the God I hear the atheists here describing, either. Why would anyone want to agree with the fundies?

 

[Joe1991]

Actually, it doesn't. I'm pretty areligious really. I don't belong to any particular faith, at best maybe just calling myself a generic christian. I'm more a agnostic diest if I really had to stretch to put a specific term on me. I don't know what I do for your case, or if I'm even "whining". I don't have a problem with athiests, nor think they're any less welcome or more correct than religious folks. I really don't care. I just find the pompous jackassery in regards to religion by many of them on this site seems to mirror the common stereotype that they attempt to paint onto many religious people. They are much like rabid libertarians, so profoundly wound up in their belief that they are so vastly superior to everyone that they can't see past their own noses to realize they're basically just acting like a bunch of assholes on the subject. I don't rightly care, as the pathetic little mocking of religion is more amusing than anything else, as it doesn't really bother any of my beliefs...few they may be...and more is just an interesting case study of the douchery and elitist superiority through overinflated ego that can be shown from both sides, and more often then not by the athiest side of things on this forum.

Again with the whining and namecalling.

This is the reason I usually stay out of the religious section; the hyper-defensiveness and attacks on anyone that dares to treat religious dogma with the same scrutiny as 9/11 truthers or bigfoot chasers.

As a person that grew up being indoctrinated in religion, believe me, I do understand the unwillingness to finally realize there is no magical Santa Claus in the sky and that there is no Never-neverland to eat cake and ice cream for eternity.

As humans with large advanced brains, it's difficult to grasp that we're no different than a mosquito, that when we die that's it. But like you, I still hold to some form of agnosticism, it would be presumptuous to completely dismiss the possibility of some other life form that could have test-tube seeded our planet billions of years ago, but even if true, I'll bet they went to the bathroom just like we do, and their "powers" were no more magical than using a tv remote.

 

[Joe1991]

Every time I hear an atheist make a sweeping generalization about "religious people," I have to wonder which ones they mean. Or what they mean.

Not an athiest, but I'll speak for them anyway.
The difference is the same as if your sky god had blonde hair and theirs brown; ... they are minute distinctions without a difference.

 

[Wessexman]

If I was to start a discussion done here, which I'm thinking of doing, I would make it for theists only or those that accept this premise for the discussion. I simply do not like the way they tend to argue.

 

[justone]

Taking cheap shots at gays isn't a common theme in most dogmatic religions?

Absolutely not. Taking cheap shots is a prerogative of atheists.

Next you'll aim to convince me that misogyny also isn't a common dogmatic theme.

There is no reason or fact that can convince you, atheism is driven by denial and fear of reality.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8BoBU2u3TM&feature=related"]YouTube - Dolores O'Riordan "Ave Maria"(Live) w/ The Passion of Christ[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q9eBobEsPw"]YouTube - Мария (Prey) Богородица Дево,радуйся[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emgHei4LZCE&feature=related"]YouTube - Икона и молитва Богородице Умягчение злых сердец[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY30Qgj6LJM&feature=related"]YouTube - Notre Dame de Paris song 21 Ave Maria Paien[/ame]

Orthodox Women Saints | Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese

Female / Women Saints - Saints & Angels - Catholic Online

In order for something to become a stereotype there first has to be some general truth involved.

Atheism does not involve any truth except for a 6 years old comprehension of reality the 6 years old calls truth.

 

[justone]

I'm fairly certain if there were credible evidence of a God or Gods it would peak folks interests.

.

You are deeply mistaken. There is nothing that can peak interests of shore minded, intellectually blinded and illiterate bigots who are not capable of basic reasoning. Take you as an example. If you don’t know, don’t want to know, don’t see and don’t want to see the credible evidence which has been put forward by God since the biblical times, if you live in the state of total denial of reality, - as you have been demonstrating, - why the folks you mind should be any different? They are not.

 

[Wessexman]

Name names? Any religion. All religions. How is anyone supposed to take any of them seriously????? Not a one of them has any sort of credible collaborative evidence supporting their dogma. To whine and complain that religion isn't taken seriously or that it is mocked is rather pointless.

Why shouldn't it be mocked? On what basis should any non-believer respect any believers creed when there is not a single logical rational shred of evidence that there is a God or Gods?

I have a huge interest in aliens and all things alien. But I don't run around expecting others to have serious discussions with me on the topic of little green men killing cattle and anal probing humans.

If religious folks want respect in regards to their religious ideologies they are going to have to earn it with some credible evidence. Till such time it's completely appropriate and expected that their "notions" be treated just as any other whacked out illogical theories with no credible evidence on anything else are treated.

Religion is not special.

You use the term conservative to describe yourself and yet you make posts like this. Have you ever read many major Conservative authors? I know of no major conservative who has held such an overtly hostile position to religion as you do and believe the two are incompatible.

 

[justone]

And I also believe there is life out there in the universe.

Can that life be more intelligent, developed than we are?














Now if you and I are represantatives of that more intelligent and developed life and you say 'I also believe there is life out there in the universe' I am asking you Can that life (3#) be more intelligent, developed than we are?



And so continue to see the absolute intelligence or stop and put your head into the sand.

 

[Joe1991]

You are deeply mistaken. There is nothing that can peak interests of shore minded, intellectually blinded and illiterate bigots who are not capable of basic reasoning. Take you as an example. If you don’t know, don’t want to know, don’t see and don’t want to see the credible evidence which has been put forward by God since the biblical times, if you live in the state of total denial of reality, - as you have been demonstrating, - why the folks you mind should be any different? They are not.

If you can show a single shred of scientific proof, I will donate 10,000 to the charity of your choice.

go.

 

[obvious Child]

One problem I've found on another board is that overly religious folk believe that their faith based ideas have solid, empirical evidence to back them up. So when two of them come together without realizing the concept of what religious faith is, you get a screaming match. This problem also exists when an overly religious person who fails to understand the concept of faith tries to argue that tangible science is wrong on the basis of his faith based beliefs. That and semantics is particularly problematic in religious threads.

 

[Wessexman]

If you can show a single shred of scientific proof, I will donate 10,000 to the charity of your choice.

go.

Why scientific proof? Surely philosophical and theological proof would be just as valid?

 

[talloulou]

You use the term conservative to describe yourself and yet you make posts like this. Have you ever read many major Conservative authors? I know of no major conservative who has held such an overtly hostile position to religion as you do and believe the two are incompatible.

I'm an agnostic Republican. Sue me.

 

[Wessexman]

One problem I've found on another board is that overly religious folk believe that their faith based ideas have solid, empirical evidence to back them up. So when two of them come together without realizing the concept of what religious faith is, you get a screaming match. This problem also exists when an overly religious person who fails to understand the concept of faith tries to argue that tangible science is wrong on the basis of his faith based beliefs. That and semantics is particularly problematic in religious threads.

I'd say the problem is more on the anti-religious side. Many don't seem to have any idea of what the debates are about. For instance I've heard arguments like Dawkins one about most being atheists to most gods being used. Anyone with any sort of knowledge of Christianity should see this is absurd.

 

[talloulou]

You are deeply mistaken. There is nothing that can peak interests of shore minded, intellectually blinded and illiterate bigots who are not capable of basic reasoning. Take you as an example. If you don’t know, don’t want to know, don’t see and don’t want to see the credible evidence which has been put forward by God since the biblical times, if you live in the state of total denial of reality, - as you have been demonstrating, - why the folks you mind should be any different? They are not.

Here's one of those examples for ya nifty. You wanted names. How 'bout justone and her ilk for starters? :mrgreen:

 

[justone]

But, of course, Atheists are not the only one's who crap on these discussions. There are many people of faith who are also more interested in denouncing others than they are in having a good discussion on the issue. They are often fire and brimstone types that want to tell you that they are right, you are wrong, and that the only correct action is to believe as they do.
In my opinion, they are simply the opposite side of the same coin that the anti-theists are on.

Alfons is not many. Yet even Alfonsdoes not fire. Either you want to be honest or you don’t. Who has been crapping THIS tread for an example?

I realize that it is just an aspect of me to not be capable of belief in any particular faith. That doesn't make me superior in any way. In many ways, it makes me inferior because of the internal psychological problems that stem directly from my lack of faith.

Why do you think your mind is so different? Why do you think that we all don’t have an aspect of us not to be capable of belief in any particular faith, especially in faith you are describing? I may not be capable in believing in it as well. So far you exhibit a strong faith that you have internal psychological problems (and other don’t) and the problems directly from your lack of faith.

Even if when it comes to Christian faith are you aware that many Christians feel totally disconnected from God sometimes, once in a whole, quite often?

I wouldn’t understand – how psychological problems can steam from your lack of faith…. may be you are saying something very clever… but I cannot figure out what. When I had no faith in God and no knowledge of faith I did not have psychological problems (though I was not void of superstitions).

If I believed in some form of an afterlife, my life would be better. I know this. I want this. But my mind refuses to assist me in the process.

Why do you think that if you believed in after life your life would be better? And how have you come to building such a sentence? My mind refuses to assist me in the process of understanding it. Why the belief in reincarnation wouldn’t be better for you? Why the belief in 72 virgins wouldn’t be even better than incarnation? Why do you think Christians care so much about after life when JC told them to rejoice in this life? You realize that there would be no this life after this life, so we hardly can imagine after life?

I still enjoy discussions about religion, but I tend to avoid debates about individual faiths themselves. There is nothing to debate, really. A person believes what they believe. There is no right or wrong in it, just different.

I might debate the merits of faith-based education and such, and I'll argue vehemently against any claims that those who lack faith are incapable of being moral because I know such a statement to be false by the way I live my life, but I see no purpose in arguing for or against the existence of God anymore.

I might engage in a logical debate, as I have with moe, about the merits of a specific argument, while being respectful to the underlying beliefs that the person I'm debating has. In the particular instance with moe that I'm thinking about, I formulated all of my arguments from the position that God did exist, not the reverse. found it to be a very stimulating and engaging discussion, which as usual, got crapped on by an atheist who was in the stage I mentioned earlier.

Yet there is the only reasonable choice, - either God exists or he does not, either JC is alive or he is not. It cannot be 2 at the same time, or you can put your head in the sand and say that there is neither of the 2. I find the position with the head in the sand to be quite vulnerable, you understand why, don’t you?

 

[obvious Child]

Alfons is not many. Yet even Alfonsdoes not fire. Either you want to be honest or you don’t. Who has been crapping THIS tread for an example?

Except there are more boards then this one in the universe.

Yet there is the only reasonable choice, - either God exists or he does not

Why is it reasonable to assume there is only one God?

 

[talloulou]

Absolutely not. Taking cheap shots is a prerogative of atheists.




There is no reason or fact that can convince you, atheism is driven by denial and fear of reality.

YouTube - Dolores O'Riordan "Ave Maria"(Live) w/ The Passion of Christ

YouTube - Мария (Prey) Богородица Дево,радуйся
YouTube - Икона и молитва Богородице Умягчение злых сердец
YouTube - Notre Dame de Paris song 21 Ave Maria Paien

Orthodox Women Saints | Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese

Female / Women Saints - Saints & Angels - Catholic Online




Atheism does not involve any truth except for a 6 years old comprehension of reality the 6 years old calls truth.

I'm really more of an agnostic than a hard core atheist. I don't proclaim to know that there are no higher beings - anywhere. I don't happen to know of any or believe in any at the moment. If I ever do meet up with a higher life form I'm not sure "worship" would be my first direct response or even an appropriate response to such a being.

As for calling me 6 years old, meh. My faith failed in this order

1)Easter Bunny -too stupid for words so I never believed
2)tooth fairy - four kids so the so called fairy did a shoddy enough job that I quickly scoffed at the idea it was anyone but my mother.
3)Santa Clause - eventually all kids catch their parents cursing as they aim to put together some crazy toy around midnight Christmas Eve.
4)God. What exactly would I be believing in? It's fairly obvious there is no deity/being/beings orchestrating any events in my day to day life. There is no evidence of such a being existing. I'm certainly not gonna vote against gay marriage on the basis that this never seen, never heard from deity dislikes gay sex. Gimme a break.

Religion is funny. I feel sorry for anyone who can't see that.

 

[Wessexman]

Why is it reasonable to assume there is only one God?

Now I don't want to get into theological disucssions myself but there are arguments. The first cause argument, the ontological argument, St.Anselm's argument, Spinoza's Single substance, the arguments of the Perennialists and theosophists on this topic for example. Even if one looks at the more esoteric versions of Hinduism and Buddhism one sees the unity of the divine principle being generally accepted. Again I don't want to discuss this theologically, I'm just showing your there are arguments.

 

[niftydrifty]

Here's one of those examples for ya nifty. You wanted names. How 'bout justone and her ilk for starters? :mrgreen:

I suspected as much. this is precisely why I asked you to name names. so the craziest :monkey:screwy examples you can find are the ones you let represent religion?

you have probably noticed that I can get pretty nasty from time to time. it's a fault and I readily admit it. I get testy with people that I don't like AND that I disagree with. I'm finding myself disagreeing with you now, but I'm going to try to say this as nicely as possible, because I like you.

I really hope that you will look again at the things you're typing in this thread someday. And I hope you will look at them objectively.

The thread is a discussion concerning religious belief, and you're here in the thick of it, making some of the most massive generalizations and far-out false analogies I've ever seen in my life.

Atheism is an absence of religious belief, or more specifically, belief in a deity. that's the way I understand it. in order for an atheist to make a case for their atheism, it's necessary for them to actually address real religious beliefs.

where does anything say that a God-being literally orchestrates events in your day to day life? you're making stuff up and/or letting the whackiest things you find represent religion. this is most unfortunate. in order for you to get acquainted with real religious beliefs, it seems you have a lot of work to do.

 

[Wessexman]

Atheism is an absence of religious belief, or more specifically, belief in a deity. that's the way I understand it.

I've always felt this was a bit of a co-out for atheists. Sure it is the absence of belief in a deity but you only come to this because you hold a particular world view. Sure these differ among atheists but it isn't simply lacking in belief but on the positive side it is holding such a view and the differences are little different in extent to those among theists.

 

[justone]

Here's one of those examples for ya nifty. You wanted names. How 'bout justone and her ilk for starters? :mrgreen:

Anything atheists are capable of except for primitive insults and finger pointing - of course, instead of addressing points and issues?








No.

 

[justone]

If you can show a single shred of scientific proof, I will donate 10,000 to the charity of your choice.

go.

The idea that science proves anything is the idea of atheistic science, as all atheistic ideas it is totally absurd and have no connection to reality. Real science does not prove anything, but you do.