Why God Wants Praise [W:65]

[blarg]

Get over it. Faith will always influence people. It's influence will rise and diminish over time, but it will always be there. Whether or not your soul, if you think you have one, survives after physical death shouldn't be a concern to you, given your belief. And it is a belief. Nobody knows how life after death works. That should be obvious. Anyone who tells you how it works is blowing smoke in all the wrong places. That's part of the reason such beliefs are described as faith. So, either you believe in God based on faith or you don't. There is no middle ground.

why get over it simply becase you don't like my intrest? ya i figure faith will exist but why can't i argue about it? get over that

id like to not be dead so im very interested like i said

true all iv seen is faith so far

if this is the case it should be pointed out again and again hopefully it will contribute jsut a little to the diminishing of faith

Anyone who tells you how it works is blowing smoke in all the wrong places

 

[ludin]

so what if it is circular logic im not saying it has to be so just 1 way to remove chance and god at he same time by having to express evry possible state of existence under all posble sets of physical laws at once

ok your satisfied but still all the ultimate cosmic answers are going to boil down to becase x

um not talking about your will which may or may not be free you had issue with he idea of people existing by cahnce im just saying a god wont immediately take that away this relates to the ultimate becase x i was referring to in his case why did god want the universe the way it is even if you get an answer you still going to crash into becase and that will still be arbitrary and random wiht an unrestrained truly free god

no 1 has free will under an omniscient god not even the god what it sees is and must be

Circular logic is a fallacy the last time I checked.

God is good all the time and all the time God is good.

Who said God is I constrained.
He does nothing outside his nature and character.

Sure they do.

 

[blarg]

I think perhaps you should go to the top of this forum and read the "Sticky." If you don't believe in supreme beings....fine, I think everyone gets that. You don't like people of faith?....great, that's your prerogative. If you want to have meaningful discussion about what others believe or ask them questions about their beliefs....well that's fine too. But that's not what you're doing, is it? When you want to start baiting, trolling, posting cartoons, etc in order to poke fun at, criticize, or to insult those of faith for their beliefs....well then if you don't want to get reported, I think you should take that junk to the "Philosophical Discussions" forum. That's kind of the rules. :shrug:

actuly i have been doing that

and would be quitentiended on why those videos are not correct

 

[D_NATURED]

I think you are in the wrong forum.

You may be right, I've been accused of (and sentenced for) that before.

God might be an abstract to you but to believers He is not.

I realize that but, like an abstraction, god is defined differently in everyone. I really don't expect you to imagine god to be anything but what you desire Him to be. He's your god, after all.

I don't say any of this to hurt people's feelings. This forum, however, if it's truly meant for honest spiritual conversation among fellow humans, should be as inclusive of my questions as of your certainty. Am I not deserving of a voice because, if you nail me down, I think religion, like every aspect of human culture, evolved. Thus, every flavor of god that fills the hearts of aristocrats and the huts of aboriginals, serves the same purpose.

Why is a reality based spirituality such a threat to the mystical kind? Because it's better.

He has a defined nature and characteristics.

Ancient Egyptians thought that god rowed the sun across the sky in a canoe. Oh, which god were you defining?

 

[blarg]

Circular logic is a fallacy the last time I checked.

God is good all the time and all the time God is good.

Who said God is I constrained.
He does nothing outside his nature and character.

Sure they do.

but dont forget the fallacy fallacy jsut becase the reosning to get a conclusion is bad dosent automatically make the conclusion false im not saying a multiverse has to exist and is so but 1 where all possibilities are expressed at one would mess remove chance

having a nature is a constraint if that nature includes knowing everything thta will ever happen then everything that will ever happen is set in stone or in this case god no one not even the god would be free to change things

how can free will exist when the future is known and cannot be changed?

i get that you can feel like ther is free will but there's no way any of your decisions can divert from ther pre destined fate

 

[Tanngrisnir]

https://carm.org/topic-god

There are just a few with scripture support not that you will read it.
The bible contains great detail in who God is.

If you would like more read the parables of Christ

No, I'm sorry, but that link conflates 'nature' with 'attributes', and such dishonesty doesn't cut it.

That, and in case you missed it, it describes god as 'incomprehensible', thus negating it's own claims.

What else do you have?

 

[ludin]

You may be right, I've been accused of (and sentenced for) that before.



I realize that but, like an abstraction, god is defined differently in everyone. I really don't expect you to imagine god to be anything but what you desire Him to be. He's your god, after all.

I don't say any of this to hurt people's feelings. This forum, however, if it's truly meant for honest spiritual conversation among fellow humans, should be as inclusive of my questions as of your certainty. Am I not deserving of a voice because, if you nail me down, I think religion, like every aspect of human culture, evolved. Thus, every flavor of god that fills the hearts of aristocrats and the huts of aboriginals, serves the same purpose.

Why is a reality based spirituality such a threat to the mystical kind? Because it's better.



Ancient Egyptians thought that god rowed the sun across the sky in a canoe. Oh, which god were you defining?

Hmm then you might want to read the rules of this forum.
There is only one true God and no others.
So there is only one God to define.

 

[ludin]

No, I'm sorry, but that link conflates 'nature' with 'attributes', and such dishonesty doesn't cut it.

That, and in case you missed it, it describes god as 'incomprehensible', thus negating it's own claims.

What else do you have?

The answer was given to you. The fact you don't like the answer is
Not my issue but yours.
There is no dishonesty at all except for maybe your post.

Not at all. It clearly defined the characteristics of God.
You are probably in the wrong forum.

I highly suggest reading the rules. They are pretty strict.

 

[ludin]

but dont forget the fallacy fallacy jsut becase the reosning to get a conclusion is bad dosent automatically make the conclusion false im not saying a multiverse has to exist and is so but 1 where all possibilities are expressed at one would mess remove chance

having a nature is a constraint if that nature includes knowing everything thta will ever happen then everything that will ever happen is set in stone or in this case god no one not even the god would be free to change things

how can free will exist when the future is known and cannot be changed?

i get that you can feel like ther is free will but there's no way any of your decisions can divert from ther pre destined fate

I have informed people of things that was going to happen to them if certain things were not corrected.
They had the knowledge but still made the choice to ignore it.
Things did not work out well for them.

God is large enough to see time the future but allow events to unfold.
He know the infinite paths that you can take but still allows you to make the choice you want.

https://carm.org/if-god-knows-our-free-will-choices-do-we-still-have-free-will

 

[LowDown]

You're dodging the question.

If a man goes to your house and says 'worship my friend or he'll shoot you'.
Did you choose to be shot because you didn't worship him?

Alternatively:

A man goes to a shop and says, 'hand over all the money in the register or i'll shoot you'
Did the shopkeep choose to be shot because he didn't hand over the money?

Fairly straightforward.

I always find the concept of the creation faulting the Creator for the rules He imposes funny. He who makes the Universe makes the Rules. Yes, He is responsible for everything.

Yes, God is giving us certain choices to make. To whom will we appeal if we conclude that God is being unfair?

Hell, like choosing to get shot, might not seem very attractive, but a lot of people seem to be choosing it. Proof enough of free will.

 

[Nilly]

I always find the concept of the creation faulting the Creator for the rules He imposes funny. He who makes the Universe makes the Rules. Yes, He is responsible for everything.

Yes, God is giving us certain choices to make. To whom will we appeal if we conclude that God is being unfair?

Hell, like choosing to get shot, might not seem very attractive, but a lot of people seem to be choosing it. Proof enough of free will.

So does that mean your answer is 'yes, the shopkeep/person chose to be shot'?

Hard to tell with you dancing around the issue so much.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

The answer was given to you. The fact you don't like the answer is
Not my issue but yours.
There is no dishonesty at all except for maybe your post.

No, the answer you gave was dishonest and self-contradictory. I expected nothing else from you.

Not at all. It clearly defined the characteristics of God.
You are probably in the wrong forum.

I highly suggest reading the rules. They are pretty strict.

I've already forgotten more of the bible than you'll learn your entire life.

You're not fooling anyone but yourself.

 

[blarg]

I have informed people of things that was going to happen to them if certain things were not corrected.
They had the knowledge but still made the choice to ignore it.
Things did not work out well for them.

God is large enough to see time the future but allow events to unfold.
He know the infinite paths that you can take but still allows you to make the choice you want.

https://carm.org/if-god-knows-our-free-will-choices-do-we-still-have-free-will

but you did not always know what they weer going to choose with the fore of physical law you did not build those people so that they would inevitably choose a certain way

now if your saying god knows all possibilities but doesn't know what choice you will make that is different

 

[blarg]

I always find the concept of the creation faulting the Creator for the rules He imposes funny. He who makes the Universe makes the Rules. Yes, He is responsible for everything.

Yes, God is giving us certain choices to make. To whom will we appeal if we conclude that God is being unfair?

Hell, like choosing to get shot, might not seem very attractive, but a lot of people seem to be choosing it. Proof enough of free will.

fan of the old might makes right flavor of morality

your forgetting how unbelievable your version of god seems to

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Moderator's Warning:

People. This is the Religion Forum. NO CRITICISM OF RELIGION IS ALLOWED IN THIS SUB-FORUM. Several posters have already received consequences and been removed from this thread. Anyone else?

 

[LowDown]

So does that mean your answer is 'yes, the shopkeep/person chose to be shot'?

Hard to tell with you dancing around the issue so much.

I'm sorry. I can't supply you with the intelligence you need to read my posts. But it comes down to this: I believe. You don't.

 

[ludin]

but you did not always know what they weer going to choose with the fore of physical law you did not build those people so that they would inevitably choose a certain way

now if your saying god knows all possibilities but doesn't know what choice you will make that is different

I just posted a link that proves I am right why did you ignore it?

God having foreknowledge of what you are going to do does not eliminate choice.
if you are not going to bother reading and or learning things why are you in this thread then?
seems to me you are not interested in an actual discussion.

 

[ludin]

No, the answer you gave was dishonest and self-contradictory. I expected nothing else from you.

No the answer I provided was exactly what you asked for. I provided the descriptivie attributes of God.
it is not my fault that you don't like the answer. Not only that but it was backed up by scripture.

I've already forgotten more of the bible than you'll learn your entire life.

So far you have proven yourself wrong if you don't know the attributes of God.
That is like introduction to the bible for people that have never read it before.

You're not fooling anyone but yourself.

And you are in this thread again why? trolling this forum is against the rules
somehow given your inability to read links and other evidence provided to you
I doubt you read the rules of this forum either.

I highly suggest that you do. they are very strict on people trolling here
so your usual nonsense won't fly.

 

[ludin]

You're dodging the question.

If a man goes to your house and says 'worship my friend or he'll shoot you'.
Did you choose to be shot because you didn't worship him?

Alternatively:

A man goes to a shop and says, 'hand over all the money in the register or i'll shoot you'
Did the shopkeep choose to be shot because he didn't hand over the money?

Fairly straightforward.

You are mistaken in your question.

The fact is there is a choice. you can choose to worship his friend or not worship his friend.
that is the choice. the consequence of your actions is not the choice so your question is flawed.

 

[nota bene]

An atheist rant from a few months back was to the effect that "God is supposedly this egomaniacal being who constantly demands worship and praise."

Recently I was presented with a cogent answer to this charge:

God does not need our praise, He does not need to be glorified. He is complete and sufficient unto Himself. The thing is that we need to praise and glorify God for our own benefit and the benefit of others around us.

Why? Because we need to know and others need to know that God is God, and we are not; God is the means to salvation and everlasting life; God has the power to provide this for us; we must by our own free will, because we are creatures of free will, accept this great gift and the authority of He who gives it.

Merely to acknowledge and repeat these facts is to praise and glorify God in the highest possible terms.

I've been thinking about this for a few days now and remain stuck on our needing to know that God is God and that we are not. Alexander Pope's "Essay on Man" (Epistle 1), from which I frequently quote, focuses on this relationship and the need to recognize our limited ability to comprehend.

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known " (I Corinthians 13:12)

In the meantime, it's presumptuous to, as Pope said, "be the God of God. In pride, in reas'ning pride, our error lies."
An Essay on Man: Epistle I - Poetry Foundation

 

[LowDown]

fan of the old might makes right flavor of morality

your forgetting how unbelievable your version of god seems to

No, I'm completely aware of how silly this all looks to the unbeliever. There's nothing I can do about that. Secular explanations are completely inadequate.

 

[LowDown]

I've been thinking about this for a few days now and remain stuck on our needing to know that God is God and that we are not. Alexander Pope's "Essay on Man" (Epistle 1), from which I frequently quote, focuses on this relationship and the need to recognize our limited ability to comprehend.

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known " (I Corinthians 13:12)

In the meantime, it's presumptuous to, as Pope said, "be the God of God. In pride, in reas'ning pride, our error lies."
An Essay on Man: Epistle I - Poetry Foundation

I'm pretty much a beginner at this business of Christian apologetics. I'm sure others could state these issues better than I. Among Christians one can argue the logic reasoning of what we believe. That is, in fact, how some doctrines, like the doctrine of the Trinity, came about. But to unbelievers I think that there is only one good approach, and that is to witness to the glory of God, the offer of salvation, and our assurance of the truth of it based on our own experience. That is, to be a witness. Crossing blades with them in logic and reason just makes a hash of things.

 

[nota bene]

Sometimes we are called only to be a light unto the gentiles.

 

[roughdraft274]

God created us with the intention that we'd be saved. But he also gave us free will. Free will means nothing if there's no wrong choice.

Well that's just obviously wrong.

Do we have free will if/after we get into heaven?

 

[roughdraft274]

I'm pretty much a beginner at this business of Christian apologetics. I'm sure others could state these issues better than I. Among Christians one can argue the logic reasoning of what we believe. That is, in fact, how some doctrines, like the doctrine of the Trinity, came about. But to unbelievers I think that there is only one good approach, and that is to witness to the glory of God, the offer of salvation, and our assurance of the truth of it based on our own experience. That is, to be a witness. Crossing blades with them in logic and reason just makes a hash of things.

That's just a bit odd, and not what I think anyone would really think is the best way to convince someone of something that you know is true. Is there anything else in your life that you KNOW to be true that you couldn't explain to someone with logic and reason, but instead would just keep insisting that they should trust you? I mean, if you told me there was an elephant in your backyard and I didn't believe you, would you keep insisting that you knew this for a fact, or would you show me pictures, let me see the elephant, maybe show me the giant foot prints or huge piles of dung in the back yard if he was no longer there? I just don't understand why this is the only instance where logic and reason breaks down. If it's true, and you know it to be true for a fact, it shouldn't be that hard to show.