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Why doesn't God Protect us from disasters and terrorist attacks?

Hoot

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Why doesn't God Protect us from disasters and terrorist attacks?

I like what Kerry said, during the debates when he made mincemeat out of Bush...

"We should not pray that God is on our side, but that we are on God's side."
 

dthmstr254

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Hoot said:
Why doesn't God Protect us from disasters and terrorist attacks?

I like what Kerry said, during the debates when he made mincemeat out of Bush...

"We should not pray that God is on our side, but that we are on God's side."
OMG!!!! I can't believe that we got a good quote from him at last!!! Exodus 32:26
"Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD's side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him."
the fact is, God doesn't need to explain himself to us, as proven in Job, but we should remain on God's side no matter what. trust me, through 6 funerals of close family members in two years, I know that God sends trials to prove what is inside of us. sometimes God doesn't save you from trials such as Katrina and 9/11, but the true question is, how do you react when you go through a trial? is faith in science going to bring us through trials?? not all the time. in fact, science tends to make it seem even more hopeless. a quote from Nagel states that if science is true, "life is but an episode between two oblivions." faith is what pulls Christians through trials, faith in an all-powerful and all-wise God who knows exactly why some things happen. a very good example of this is the story of a preacher which can be found in Case for Faith, Visual Edition:
Case for Faith said:
Several years earlier, Marc had been shoveling snow on his driveway when his wife said she was going to move the car and asked him to watch their young daughter. As the car backed out, they were suddenly thrust into the worst nightmare that parents can imagine: their toddler was crushed beneath a wheel.
So deep was Marc's initial despair that he had to ask God to help him breathe, to help him eat, to help him function at the most fundamental level. Otherwise, he was paralyzed by the emotional pain. But he increasingly felt God's presence, His grace, His warmth, His comfort, and very slowly, over time, his wounds began to heal.
Having experienced God at his point of greatest need, Marc would emerge from this crucible a changed person, abandoning his career in business to attend seminary. Through his suffering--though he never would have chosen it, though it was horribly painful, though it was life-shattering at the time--Marc had been transformed into someone who would devote the rest of his life to bringing God's compassion to others who are alone in their desperation.
In the pulpit for the first time, Marc was able to draw on his own experiences with God in the depths of sorrow. People were captivated because his own loss had given him special insights, empathy, and credibility. in the end, dozens of them responded by saying they too wanted to know this Jesus, this GOD OF TEARS. Now other hearts were being healed because of Marc's having been broken. From one couple's despair emerges new hope for many.
"Some skeptics scoff at the Bible saying that God can cause good to emerge from our pain if we run toward Him instead of away from Him," Marc said. "But I've watched it happen in my own life. I've experienced God's goodness through deep pain, and no skeptic can dispute that. The God who the skeptic denies is the same God who held our hands in the deep, dark places, who strengthened our marriage, who deepened our faith, who increased our reliance on Him, who gave us two more children, and who infused our life with new purpose and meaning so that we can make a difference to others."
I [Lee Strobell] asked gently, "do you wish you had more answers about why suffering in the first place?"
"We live in a broken world; Jesus was honest enough to tell us we'd have trials and tribulations. Sure, I'd like to understand more about why. But the ultimate answer is Jesus' presence. That sounds sappy, I know. But just wait--when your world is rocked, you don't want philosophy or theology as much as you want the reality of Christ. He was the answer for me. He was the very answer we needed."
 

dthmstr254

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kal-el said:
Dude, does it really mattter this time the source? I mean, c'mon how much could have got lost in translation? He didn't invoke God in his speech or what? Even you have to admit that he refers to himself in epic biblical porportions.:2razz: Anyway, here's a thread on the topic:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showthread.php?t=4406&highlight=told+strike+saddam
well, at least now you have a source that seems reliable. the thing is, liberals misinterpreted what George meant by that. he wasn't referring to an audible voice, but to the leading of the Holy Spirit, which is leading him to certain measures. I am durn sure that George is in God's will with the war, but I believe that certain of his underlings are way out of it.






I guess the end justifies the means then? Who cares that the OT is a super-sized pornographic, violent novel, right?:lol:

huh??? I get the violent part, but I only partially get the pornographic part. if you are referring to the Song of Solomon, you have to realize that many churches and the Jews don't allow you to read that until a certain age, in Jews it is at the age of thirty that you are allowed to read it. yes, it is quite graphic, but it is still part of the Bible.



By no means, am I advocating removing all religious teachings. Only those that encourage hate, violence and intolerance. I think that would solvent alot of our problems. For instance, there's no such thing as an atheist terorrist. When you don't beleive in a god or afterlife, you have nothing to die for, hence you strive to make the best out of your 1 and only life here. Bush waged war on the Middle East claiming "God is with us", the hijackers on 9/11 flew planes into buildings shouting, "God is great". See the connection?:2razz:
Bush waged war on Iraq and the liberals just pay attention to the death toll of American soldiers. you want to know some good things that came from it? here are some:

the public school system, which was disbanded after the World Wars, was reinstated.
the public humiliation and mistreatment of women was finally declared a crime, and women are now reporting it to the authorities.
women from Afghanistan and Iraq are now participating in the olympics, for the first time in history.
a new, democratic government is being instituted in Iraq and making its way into Afghanistan.
can you ignore that???
 

dthmstr254

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ddoyle00 said:
Why is when something bad happens, its "man is evil and deserved it" or "god works in mysterious ways?' But when something good happens, its "ohh, thank god for that." How spiteful does your god have to be to massacre millions of his believers? Why doesn't he just come down and skip the middle man? I mean, it could potentially save the life of someone in your family. The next time you pray, ask him to stop using earthquakes and floods and tsunamis and what the fck else and just have him tell you what he wants. God being mysterious is killing a lot of people.

6 million from Nazi Germany
12 million from Stalin
10's of million from black plague
half of damn Europe from bubonic plague
Sri Lanka Tsunami
Pakistani earthquake
New Orleans flood

By the your reasoning, all these events are because gods mad at us. Man did something wrong and we are being punished. Think of all the lives that could have been spared if he took a few minutes of his prescious time and sent us an e-mail telling us what he wants. Youd think the Jews would have some insight into this, but they are killed in as large numbers as eery one else. Pat Robertson and everyone in his family is an evangelical nut and I really hope they dont have a dream where god tells them to kill someone cause they would probably do it. Fcking nut jobs.
hows about you read Job and come back to me. I never even implied that thought.
 

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GySgt said:
Why doesn't God Protect us from disasters and terrorist attacks?

Because God gave man the power to create and destroy. It's called free will. Man has been proven to be good at both.

God is an absent God. When I die and I face judgement, he will grant me answers, or he will declare me too egotistical for Heaven and send me to Hell to hang out with Allah and his martyrs.

And maybe you will get 30 virgins.:rofl
 

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Humankind has the tools to handle these problems ourselves given either way by God or evolution the capacity for compassion, empathy, communication, higher thought, technology, and the ability to show repect for each other through free-will are in our brain tool box. Whos fault is it if we chose not to use them ourselves? After all evolution or God given both only help those who help themselves.

When the world indulges is the opposite of these, keeping only to themselves then our understanding is limited. If all countries combined knowledge maybe we could grow scientifically, lessening the loss during disasters, or simple empathy and letting others have their free will and express it without judgment would halt many conflicts.

Given be whatever design granted us these abilities, why blame the tool maker if the tools given were left unused, or used for the wrong job?

KMS
 
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We are placed here on earth to be tested and trailed on how we handle adversity etc. There is also GOOD AND EVIL HERE.
 

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CaliNORML said:
Humankind has the tools to handle these problems ourselves given either way by God or evolution the capacity for compassion, empathy, communication, higher thought, technology, and the ability to show repect for each other through free-will are in our brain tool box. Whos fault is it if we chose not to use them ourselves? After all evolution or God given both only help those who help themselves.

When the world indulges is the opposite of these, keeping only to themselves then our understanding is limited. If all countries combined knowledge maybe we could grow scientifically, lessening the loss during disasters, or simple empathy and letting others have their free will and express it without judgment would halt many conflicts.

Given be whatever design granted us these abilities, why blame the tool maker if the tools given were left unused, or used for the wrong job?

KMS

so, how would you deal with your toddler being run over???
 

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dthmstr254 said:
well, at least now you have a source that seems reliable. the thing is, liberals misinterpreted what George meant by that. he wasn't referring to an audible voice, but to the leading of the Holy Spirit, which is leading him to certain measures. I am durn sure that George is in God's will with the war, but I believe that certain of his underlings are way out of it.

OK, let me see if I get this right, you claim liberals misinterpret the fact that George Bush is a fanatic.:2razz: Please, if he actually thinks a "supernatural", imaginary entity is talking to him, instructing him to inflict thousands of casulties, he shouldn't be in the White house. Actually, someone with that much of an imagination dosen't desreve to be in charge of anything, let alone the greatest military superpower of the world.




huh??? I get the violent part, but I only partially get the pornographic part. if you are referring to the Song of Solomon, you have to realize that many churches and the Jews don't allow you to read that until a certain age, in Jews it is at the age of thirty that you are allowed to read it. yes, it is quite graphic, but it is still part of the Bible.

Well, it's been quite some time since I indulged myself in the mythology of the Bible, but if I'm not mistaken, did'nt Lot have intimate relations with his daughters? And you want to talk about violent? Didn't your "loving god" require Abraham to sacrifice his own flesh and blood, by slitting his throat?



Bush waged war on Iraq and the liberals just pay attention to the death toll of American soldiers. you want to know some good things that came from it? here are some:



the public school system, which was disbanded after the World Wars, was reinstated.
the public humiliation and mistreatment of women was finally declared a crime, and women are now reporting it to the authorities.
women from Afghanistan and Iraq are now participating in the olympics, for the first time in history.
a new, democratic government is being instituted in Iraq and making its way into Afghanistan.
can you ignore that???

So? Look at all the deaths. Over 2,000 of our brave men and women died for nothing. 100,000 Iraqi civilians died. They were just trying to live their lives. They didn't ask to die.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3962969.stm
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6596

Add to this horrible fact that over 10,000 of our servicemen and women are severly handicapped for life.
http://www.laborradio.org/node/484

Do the terrible deaths justify the end, when the end is such a beautiful cause as peace? And there still isn't peace yet.:(
 

dthmstr254

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kal-el said:
OK, let me see if I get this right, you claim liberals misinterpret the fact that George Bush is a fanatic.:2razz: Please, if he actually thinks a "supernatural", imaginary entity is talking to him, instructing him to inflict thousands of casulties, he shouldn't be in the White house. Actually, someone with that much of an imagination dosen't desreve to be in charge of anything, let alone the greatest military superpower of the world.
you ignore once again what he was led to do, which was to go get Suddam, the deaths came because Suddam wasn't going to come easily. you think that Suddam was any different from Hitler???






Well, it's been quite some time since I indulged myself in the mythology of the Bible, but if I'm not mistaken, did'nt Lot have intimate relations with his daughters? And you want to talk about violent? Didn't your "loving god" require Abraham to sacrifice his own flesh and blood, by slitting his throat?
Lot was drugged by his daughters, Abraham never slit his son's throat.




So? Look at all the deaths. Over 2,000 of our brave men and women died for nothing. 100,000 Iraqi civilians died. They were just trying to live their lives. They didn't ask to die.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3962969.stm
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6596

Add to this horrible fact that over 10,000 of our servicemen and women are severly handicapped for life.
http://www.laborradio.org/node/484

Do the terrible deaths justify the end, when the end is such a beautiful cause as peace? And there still isn't peace yet.:(
well, let us take those away and add a million Iraqi citizen's lives in their place. people were allowed to KILL their wives if they weren't pleased with them. women were publicly WHIPPED for no reason at all. children were shot if they disobeyed. so which one do you want to sacrifice? a million innocent lives, or just 102000???


PS: did you enjoy the latest Smallville? :)
 

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dthmstr254 said:
you ignore once again what he was led to do, which was to go get Suddam, the deaths came because Suddam wasn't going to come easily. you think that Suddam was any different from Hitler???

Let's see here. Hitler fetched Jews from other countries to throw them in concentration camps. Hitler invaded his neighboring countrie(s). Saddam did in fact, invade Kuwait, but that's hardly on the same level as Hitler. The only similarity I see is they were both elected democratically. Of course they were phoney elections, but democratic nonetheless. So, your comparison is ridiculous at best.:2razz:



Lot was drugged by his daughters, Abraham never slit his son's throat.

O, ok. I'm not up to speed on my bedtime stories.:lol:


well, let us take those away and add a million Iraqi citizen's lives in their place. people were allowed to KILL their wives if they weren't pleased with them. women were publicly WHIPPED for no reason at all. children were shot if they disobeyed. so which one do you want to sacrifice? a million innocent lives, or just 102000???


If I didn't know better I thought you were talking about almost all Mid East countries. Yes, Saddam's Iraq was bad, but almost every other Middle-Eastern nation was worse. Off the top of my head I could name a couple- Kuwait- where women are second-class citizens, not to mention, could be beaten for not covering there heads properly, and Saudi Arabia, where men and women still can't vote. I guess you pro-neocons use this as a last-ditch effort to booster morale for this war, since the much hyped WMD claims were refuted.

PS: did you enjoy the latest Smallville? :)

Hell yea, that was awesome! Too bad the Wb is airing re-runs until Dec.8th.:(
 

dthmstr254

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kal-el said:
Let's see here. Hitler fetched Jews from other countries to throw them in concentration camps. Hitler invaded his neighboring countrie(s). Saddam did in fact, invade Kuwait, but that's hardly on the same level as Hitler. The only similarity I see is they were both elected democratically. Of course they were phoney elections, but democratic nonetheless. So, your comparison is ridiculous at best.:2razz:
well, think about it, he did worse than throw them in concentration camps. he turned the entire darn country into a concentration camp for women. Kuwait and the other countries could barely hold a candle to what Iraq did to its citizens.






If I didn't know better I thought you were talking about almost all Mid East countries. Yes, Saddam's Iraq was bad, but almost every other Middle-Eastern nation was worse. Off the top of my head I could name a couple- Kuwait- where women are second-class citizens, not to mention, could be beaten for not covering there heads properly, and Saudi Arabia, where men and women still can't vote. I guess you pro-neocons use this as a last-ditch effort to booster morale for this war, since the much hyped WMD claims were refuted.

so beating a person is worse than torturing and killing her???
 

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Old and wise said:
And maybe you will get 30 virgins.:rofl


You're thinking of the Islamic extremists that come from a Muslim civilization in the Middle East that want you dead. Still trying to live up to that "wise" part of your name? Awww..that's cute.:3oops:
 

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dthmstr254 said:
well, think about it, he did worse than throw them in concentration camps. he turned the entire darn country into a concentration camp for women. Kuwait and the other countries could barely hold a candle to what Iraq did to its citizens.

Sure, sure, sure.:2razz:
http://groups.yahoo.com/internationalnews/message/1002

Here's some interesting insights on that theory:
Kuwait bans concerts featuring women:
http://arabnews.com/?page=4&section=0&article=45598&d=25&m=5fy=2004

SA citizens can't vote. Police abuse detainees and prisoners, arbittrary arrest, and hold people incommunicado detention:
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2004/41731.htm

SA arbitrary arrests, torture, unfair trials, and harsh punishments like flogging and beheadings.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/032800-01.htm

Iran curbs women's rights:
http://atheism.about.com/b/a/115203.htm

Iran represses its citizens:
http://www.aei.org/publications/pubID.139701pub_detail.asp




so beating a person is worse than torturing and killing her???

All violence is wrong. Saddam was in no way a model of humanitarian rights. I'm not going to argue there as he was a brutal dictator. Who's to say what's worse? As I said earlier, violence begets violence. It snowballs.
 

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dthmstr254 said:
so, how would you deal with your toddler being run over???


Compassion. Althought I could not empathize to the loss of a child never having had experienced that lost myself. I am sure my imagination could not come close to the accuality of the pain that event would have caused a parent.

I reguards to the tools used, the five I used when facing immense loss: my parents death, and the milestones of my autistic son never to be seen, was the grieving process. The five tools given to move through that process came with the ability to express the depth of emotion communicted between inviduals. You can love only as much as you're willing to grieve its loss.

As for GOOD and EVIL, that is set by society from the accepting, non-judgemental center. A thing or act can only be judged in respect to the opposite. Thus labeling something GOOD automatically creates an EVIL.

KMS
 

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CaliNORML said:
Compassion. Althought I could not empathize to the loss of a child never having had experienced that lost myself. I am sure my imagination could not come close to the accuality of the pain that event would have caused a parent.

I reguards to the tools used, the five I used when facing immense loss: my parents death, and the milestones of my autistic son never to be seen, was the grieving process. The five tools given to move through that process came with the ability to express the depth of emotion communicted between inviduals. You can love only as much as you're willing to grieve its loss.

As for GOOD and EVIL, that is set by society from the accepting, non-judgemental center. A thing or act can only be judged in respect to the opposite. Thus labeling something GOOD automatically creates an EVIL.

KMS
read my little story from earlier on. the grieving process lasts your entire life. how do you take yourself out of the depths of despair. without God, people have used such means as suicide to escape the pain. as we all know, this is a non-acceptable means to the same end. yes it ends your pain on earth, but without God you send yourself into oblivion.
 

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dthmstr254 said:
without God you send yourself into oblivion.

Wow, utter Bible-peddling nonsense.:2razz: History shows that nations with "God on there side" were nations of violence. How many deaths were caused by the Crusades, and did they ever find Jesus' tomb? The wars between India and Pakistan? Every single conflict was in the name of some form of mystical entity.
 

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kal-el said:
Wow, utter Bible-peddling nonsense.:2razz: History shows that nations with "God on there side" were nations of violence. How many deaths were caused by the Crusades, and did they ever find Jesus' tomb? The wars between India and Pakistan? Every single conflict was in the name of some form of mystical entity.
as i have said and will repeat only once more, the crusades were not led by true Christianity, just the gold lust of the poop...I mean pope.
 

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dthmstr254 said:
read my little story from earlier on. the grieving process lasts your entire life. how do you take yourself out of the depths of despair. without God, people have used such means as suicide to escape the pain. as we all know, this is a non-acceptable means to the same end. yes it ends your pain on earth, but without God you send yourself into oblivion.


That is true, yet you can celebrate even the pain. Life is pain, why not make it a voluntary act turn life from a terrifying free fall into a dive. I learned that what I fight I only bind to myself more through that act. I Accept the pain, and go further and celebrate the fact one can feel it, while not always pretty, we must try to hold the beauty in life. Especially when faced with the opposite of joy. I know pain will come, I can only feel that because I am alive and able to love deeply the opposite will come let it be welcome and celebrated as much as the other.

KMS
 
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Im pretty much the same way also. Once in a great while, I like for my fiancee to choke me while we are having sex cause the pain causes a greater orgasm.

We are talking about the same thing, right?
 

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ddoyle00 said:
Im pretty much the same way also. Once in a great while, I like for my fiancee to choke me while we are having sex cause the pain causes a greater orgasm.

We are talking about the same thing, right?

Hummmmmmm, a physical reaction due to reverse blood flow and lack of oxygen to the brain was described there. I suppose the oppsite of life being death the celbration of both acts in the same is a way to view this scenario, the French term for orgasm is petite morte or the little death and is experinced in the act of creating life.
The other part is the fact that the life you create may be subject to loss, leaving the question of willingness to take that risk of loss and pain and to celebrate that should it come.

KMS
 

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Navy Pride said:
I think this tells it all:

In light of the many perversions and jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke, it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this happen?" (regarding the attacks on Sept. 11).

Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives.

And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?"

In light of recent events..terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK.

Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school . the Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says.

Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing.

Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

Are you laughing?

Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they WILL think of you for sending it. Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.

Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just discard it... no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in

Funny how these same people were trying to say the natural disasters that happened during the '90's were because God was punishing us for electing Clinton to be the President....

Are you laughing? I'll bet you are!
 

kal-el

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alphieb said:
We are placed here on earth to be tested and trailed on how we handle adversity etc. There is also GOOD AND EVIL HERE.

Do you have any proof that your god should see anything as evil or good or have any care about humans at all?
 

Iriemon

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Navy Pride said:
I think this tells it all:

...

Good point.

Crime went down a lot in the 90s and only a few people died from terrorist attacks. Shortly after Bush was elected, we had 9/11. And in case we didn't get the message, we got Iraq.

I think God's message is crystal clear.
 

Saboteur

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Iriemon said:
Good point.

Crime went down a lot in the 90s and only a few people died from terrorist attacks. Shortly after Bush was elected, we had 9/11. And in case we didn't get the message, we got Iraq.

I think God's message is crystal clear.

And we got Katrina and Rita... Those darn Liberal RED states.
 
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