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Why doesn't God Protect us from disasters and terrorist attacks?

Navy Pride

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I think this tells it all:

In light of the many perversions and jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke, it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this happen?" (regarding the attacks on Sept. 11).

Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives.

And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?"

In light of recent events..terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK.

Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school . the Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says.

Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing.

Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

Are you laughing?

Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they WILL think of you for sending it. Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.

Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just discard it... no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in
 

Argonath

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Well, my parents being psychologists, I get to read up on a lot of the subject. Spanking your child so you can solve a problem has a very profound chance of teaching the child that it's best to solve your problems through violence. Is it?

I don't trash God. I don't believe in him, but I don't mock or make fun. If he's not there, what's the point? anyway, Bibles just shouldn't be allowed in schools because it infringes on peoples right to free religion. While it may teach great and wonderful acts of kindness, and has examples to lead children morally, It's a holy book. If we allow that in, then we can have the Koran in as well. I've nothing against it either, but soon, you can have all sorts of religious problems spreading amongst the students. One devout Christian finds out that his friend is a devout Muslim, and he tries to tell him that God is the truth, because he doesn't want his friend to go to hell. While it's intentions are good, the friend tells his parents on his friends insights. the parents, being devout Muslim as well, take it upon themselfs to complain to the principal. He can't do anything about it, because it's against the law to forbid religious practice. So the parents go see the Christian's parents. They ask the parents to tell their child to not convert their son. The Christian parents ask what's wrong with it. The other parents say it's not their belief, and they want to raise their child with the religion they believe is best for him until they believe he can make his own decisions. They eventually have a stand off of faith, and both friends can't talk to each other again.

The possibilities of students trying to convert other students are pretty high. While most students wont care, those who do wont stop. It would apply to every faith. Hindus to Buddhists, Christians to Pagans, and Jews to Muslims. not only those major ones, but all branches of the same faith. Thai Buddhists against Tibetan Buddhists, Protestants against Catholics, Shi'ite against Sunni. It would become a holy Battle ground of controversy. Possibilities abound when it comes to religion.
 

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I watched a programme last night about 911. The terrorists were from Suidi & Pakistan. They were funded by Bin Laden's money from Suidi, they spent months or years in the States. They never went to Iraq or were involved with Saddam.

In the past I've seen your support on this forum for the war in Iraq.
You therefore advocate fighting terror in a country that had nothing to do with 911 or Al Queda.

So Navy Pride.. the answer to the question lies with yourself.
Ask yourself not 'Why God doesn't want to protect us from terror'. Ask yourself instead why YOU don't want to fight the war in the right place to protect us from terror ?

The question I ask myself is... why did God make creatures as daft as yourself.. along with sheep & pigeons.
 
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Tashah

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Despite our grievous cultural and societal shortcomings, God perhaps sees fit to not personally interfere in our affairs and protect us from harm because abject intervention would in essence negate His precious gift of free-will. Natural disasters are a physical phenomena and terrorist acts are a human decision. If we are indeed blessed with personal choice and free-will, then we must cede to nature its many facets and suffer the consequences of man's folly. The essence of nature and the gift of free-will are nothing more than illusions if He is required to constantly micro-manage our destiny with deistic sleight-of-hand.


 

vergiss

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Dr. Spock's son didn't top himself. Look it up on http://www.snopes.com. If you want to sound plausable, you probably shouldn't defame public figures so obviously.

Why does God do it? Bipolar disorder. :mrgreen:
 

leejosepho

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Navy Pride said:
Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this happen?" (regarding the attacks on Sept. 11).

Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, "... for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives ...

"How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?"
Personally, I believe an answer to that question can be found by beginning here:

---
“I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse ...” (Deuteronomy 30:19);

“... He makes His sun rise on the wicked and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous” (Matthew 5:45);

“He [that loves] cursing, so let it come to him; And he [that does] not delight in blessing, so let it be far from him” (Psalms 109:17).
---

So much for comparative-value "Santa Claus theology", eh?!
 

Navy Pride

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Interesting responses, some personal attacks by people on the defensive not unexpected..........

Let me make this comment about spanking.......When I was a child in the fifties if I did something wrong I was spanked as were all of my friends........

You lnow what there were no drugs in the schools or children bringing guns to school and killing each other...

I believe a couple of slaps on the butts work wonders on children and my friends and I turned out fine......

I am not going to get into the Iraq thing except to say Iraq was a threat and sooner or later we would of had to deal with them.........It was Clinton policy to take him out...He was just to busy getting BJs in the oval office from a girl young enough to be his granddaughter to carry it out..................As President Bush has said and I totally agree, "It is better to fight terrorists in the streets of Baghdad rather then in the Streets of New York.......

I truly suspect that if God forbid Saddam did get a WOMD, give it to a terrorist, or use it himself here in the U.S. the same people who are whinning on the left now about attacking him would be whinning that we should have taken him out when we had the chance..........

It is a no win situation for President Bush when it comes to the left and the Bush haters............
 

Navy Pride

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yeah, and there were lynchings and segragation, rampant racism, so yeah, back in the days of spankings everything was obviously so eutopian in the fifties.
I am trying to figure out what lynching and segregation have to do with spanking your child......I guess someone like you could make the connection......

No one is saying things were perfect in the fifties but kids behaved a hell of a lot better in general then they do today............

Sometimes putting the fear of God in a child works wonders...........The permissive attitude of the left and their mantra "If it feels good do it." is disgusting........
 
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DonRicardo

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Navy Pride said:
I think this tells it all:

In light of the many perversions and jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke, it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this happen?" (regarding the attacks on Sept. 11).

Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives.

And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?"

In light of recent events..terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK.

Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school . the Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says.

Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing.

Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

Are you laughing?

Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they WILL think of you for sending it. Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.

Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just discard it... no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in
This is a flawed view. An atheist would not belief in an existence of any deity or anything supernatural. I am an atheist and I do not bother. I am convinced he does not exist, because of logic, and if he would I would not care, because I'd simply hate him.

Now IF God exists, he must be immoral.

1. You said "we reap what we sow", but God sowed us (if he exists), thus the world is what he made. Every action causes a reaction and he knew that their would exist violence.

Thus, I never trashed God:
- if he exists he is responsible for every action, every piece of pain, misery, deads and any other forms of negativity as well as for positive actions. If he exists, he trashed us. Romans built huge arena's to let slaves fight in to death. It's entertainment. THen you God cannot be moral. He enjoys pain of the living ones.

- he never showed himself, so I cannot accept his existance as a fact. Instead I follow the negative, "dis-suggesting" arguments. For these reasons I am convinced he does not exist. If I think he does not exist, how can I have "sinned"?

2. Free will twarths logic. It is a false concept. We are what we are made of. We are what caused us to be, it's the flow of nature. Thus all our actions must be "programmed". We have our consciousness, but how can we help what we do? Each man is influenced by education, life experience and inherited behavior, a different set of circumstances.

3. If God created nature with its laws, he must be able to destroy and to maintain, to adapt and modifiy its sequence of events. When did he ever interrupt a negative sequence of events? No perception of a god was ever seen.

4. God cannot be dualistic, because he gave man consciousness, if he exists. He is responsible for our pain and if man was given no life, he would have neither suffer, neither pain. You may say life is useless, but our animal instincts makes us fear death. He is responsible for the all the misery in the world.

5. And MOST important: If I blame you and abandon you out of my life (as an example). THen If, I get into serious danger, would you - if you had the ability to do so and if you would not be endanger yourself - save my life?

Answering no is an immorality. We are all immoral, but the greatest immorality must be the one who created us, because he could have foreseen.
 
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Navy Pride

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galenrox said:
For one, I don't like that you only respond to one sentence out of a long response. What do you have to say about the rest of what I said?

To a degree you're right. But going entirely in either direction is horrible for a child. If you don't let a child figure out anything on their own, they end up incapable of thinking for themselves, or they end up insanely rebellious and **** up their entire lives, but also taking the opinion that they can do whatever they like almost always leads to them either becoming a rock star or ****ing their lives up irreperably.

But saying things in general were better in the 50s is just a proposterous statement. I'm pretty sure that everything post segregation is in general better than anything pre-segregation.
Like I said things were not perfect in the fifties but I don't get your connection with segration when it comes to the topic of spanking a child........

I am sure you have heard of the old saying......."Spare the rod, spoil the child."
 

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Navy Pride said:
Sometimes putting the fear of God in a child works wonders...........The permissive attitude of the left and their mantra "If it feels good do it." is disgusting........
Yeah, nothing like scaring a kid into thinking that if he doesn't do right, a man in the sky will send him to a bubbling lake of lava for all eternity, so clean your room, timmy!
 

Navy Pride

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galenrox said:
I'm saying that it's impossible to seperate different aspects of the time. Chaos theory shows that everything is interconnected, and so we cannot fully say how spanking in of itself effected anything, or if it was part of something else that led to lynchings, or what. Spanking was part of the whole of the time, and the time was a time filled with predjudice and hate, and saying that the way we raised our kids in the fifties and before was cool, but what they did once they were grown was not, keeping in mind that a lot of the kids raised in those environments that you are now touting as the ideal situation to raise a child went on to be hateful racists.
I am saying you can make the connection when it comes to disciplining children and we never had the problems that parents have today when you could spank your child.......Yeah there was problems..It was not perfect but nothing like nowadays.......
 

Navy Pride

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Argonath said:
Yeah, nothing like scaring a kid into thinking that if he doesn't do right, a man in the sky will send him to a bubbling lake of lava for all eternity, so clean your room, timmy!
I don't know about the man in ths sky bit.......That never bothered me.....But my dad tanning my butt sure got my attention to walk the straight and narrow...........
 

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galenrox said:
yeah, and then they cranked out kids who thought that a black kid whistling at a white woman merited death by hanging, now they smoke a lot of weed. Yes nothing's perfect, but we're a lot closer now than we were then.
Maybe where you live but not where I did.......You keep trying to play this all about race.......You liberals and democrats are notorious for playing the race car no matter what the issue........
 

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Navy Pride said:
I truly suspect that if God forbid Saddam did get a WOMD, give it to a terrorist, or use it himself here in the U.S. the same people who are whinning on the left now about attacking him would be whinning that we should have taken him out when we had the chance..........
Whining on the left !
What is this left thing with you ?
You make generalised assumptions about people. Such as if someone thinks a policy of a Republican president is dumb, that person must in all respects be left wing.
Left wing relates to economics, not to someone that thinks it is an ineffective way to fight terror by wasting 1900 US soldiers lives, 25,000 Iraqi lives & $245 Billion in a country from which Al Qaeda terror did not originate, nor was there any evidence that it would in the future.
I'm a business man among other things... multi property owning entrepreneur. So please cut out the left wing nonsense.
 

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bad things happen to good people for god's cause-theodicy
 

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Well, my opinion is that, god doesn't exist...now I believe in a creator but not from religion's points of views....the reason is because this same "god" told his "followers" to sacrifice kids, cause plagues, natural disasters, and slavery (www.evilbible.com) and to accept being tortured, slaughtered and beaten to death during "the rapture"
 

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Navy Pride said:
Maybe where you live but not where I did.......You keep trying to play this all about race.......You liberals and democrats are notorious for playing the race car no matter what the issue........
His actual point (not the race card) couldn't be more obvious if it marched up and smacked you across the face. There are high school massacres and teenage drug addicts today, yes. Whereas back in the 50s, there was rampant, often violent racism. Both have about as much to do with corporal punishment as each other (as in, nada).

By the way, the hippy movement started in the 60s, in all its drug-taking glory. They were children of the 50s. So you just killed your own argument.
 

Navy Pride

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Again spanking your children in the fifties had very little to do with racism........It is just and attempt to get off the subject.........Spanking both by parents in the home and teachers in the school was a great deterrent to misbehavior of children.........It was a way to enforce discipline...............
 

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Navy Pride said:
I am trying to figure out what lynching and segregation have to do with spanking your child......I guess someone like you could make the connection......

No one is saying things were perfect in the fifties but kids behaved a hell of a lot better in general then they do today............
It's a very simple connection. You made the statement:
Navy Pride said:
Let me make this comment about spanking.......When I was a child in the fifties if I did something wrong I was spanked as were all of my friends........
So, it was pointed out that those thing occured during the same time frame.

Navy Pride said:
Sometimes putting the fear of God in a child works wonders...........The permissive attitude of the left and their mantra "If it feels good do it." is disgusting........
Why does it have to be the fear of god? Why not just teach children the difference between right and wrong? Or do you feel that the only way that people can know the difference is if they are threatened with eternal damnation? Personally, I have no need of that sort of threat to know what is right or wrong, and I need no such threat to do the right thing. I will do the right thing simply because it is the right thing.
 

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Navy Pride said:
Like I said things were not perfect in the fifties but I don't get your connection with segration when it comes to the topic of spanking a child........

I am sure you have heard of the old saying......."Spare the rod, spoil the child."
And, have you heard the term "rule of thumb"? That rule was that you couldn't beat your wife with a branch bigger around than your thumb. Just because it's an old saying, doesn't make it right.

BTW, I don't think that there is a problem with spanking a child. It's the rest of the nonsense that I'm seeing.
 

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Re:

Why doesn't God Protect us from disasters and terrorist attacks?
Why dont you pray more? Why dont you live better? If you think natural disasters are Gods doing then you better think again. God gives us the choices in our lives to make so we must also then accept the consequences.
 

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Re:

SKILMATIC said:
Why dont you pray more? Why dont you live better? If you think natural disasters are Gods doing then you better think again. God gives us the choices in our lives to make so we must also then accept the consequences.
That is an illogical statement. Let's consider the images of the Tsunami. A single man survived at an island and still praid to what he calls "God". Even after everything was gone, he still prays, and what does he get?

That's why I hate to pressurize religion upon others. If you read what I wrote previously in this thread, you'd fully understand what I mean. If a God exists, he cannot be moral. No one deserves suffer. If I blame you, you don't have the right to take my life.

Praying is useless. I don't see the correlation between thinking or imaginary talking to someone or nothing and then making it happen. If I use my logic to enhance my situation, I'll get far much more result.


The last useful thing religion still offers is morality, but even that's flawed. The Bible contains many pieces of illogical, flawed morality.

Science is an excellent substitute for religion. "What about morals?", you may ask.

- It's false to get your morality out of a book. You have to learn it in real life. Neither science, neither religion contains morality.

The definition of religion:
- a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny.
- institution to express belief in a divine power.

Religion IS NOT morality - just to make that clear ...

Let me give you a better view of morality. You do have a naieve Bibilistic view:

- We are all sinners, because every second a person dies, while we have joy and entertainment in our lives.
- Excuse like "I do all I can", "I've no time" are false, because every amount of money and time equals an amount of human (children even) lives. We don't use FULL POTENTIAL.

What did you mean by "living better"? In stead of praying, you can act.

I'm looking forward for your reply :)
 

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Re:

DonRicardo said:
It's false to get your morality out of a book.

That's one of the Buddha's teachings, to gain truth through personal experiance. I'd applaude, but, you know. . . .can't clap on the Net.
 
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