Why does the world allow ISRAEL to "GET AWAY WITH IT" ??

[::Major_Baker::]

It's not just to get their guys out anymore, it's also to bring down Hezbollah, which unfortunately sets up their military targets right next to civilians. Oh but I'm sure that's Israel's fault too.

I know, Israel was waiting for something like this to happen, and they love it.
It's great politically for them--they were ithcing for a reason to start bombing HZ again.

You know, I have seen this cliam uttered a lot lately, (and I don't doubt that HZ uses less than standard military tactics), but does anyone really know if it is true that they station their military assets in civilian areas, or is it just hear say?

 

[Kelzie]

I know, Israel was waiting for something like this to happen, and they love it.
It's great politically for them--they were ithcing for a reason to start bombing HZ again.

You know, I have seen this cliam uttered a lot lately, (and I don't doubt that HZ uses less than standard military tactics), but does anyone really know if it is true that they station their military assets in civilian areas, or is it just hear say?

Considering Israel is bombing Hezbollah targets in southern Beirut's burbs, I'd say it's true.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Restraint in war is idiocy. You don't go to war to lose as many lives as your enemy and get bogged down into a quagmire and stalemate; you go to war to kill more of theirs than they kill of yours, to break more of their **** than they destroy of yours, and to crush their will to fight. This proportionality rhetoric spewing forth lately has got to be the most assenine thing I've ever heard. Imagine if after Pearl Harbor the international community had asked us to show restraint in fighting the Japanese we would have laughed in their face and thought them to be insane.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

It all depends upon what your goal is. If you'd like to kill innocent people, terrorize a nation, and create a refugee crisis, then you've succeeded wonderfully. If you want to get the soldiers back, you've failed miserably so far. If you want to protect Israel, well you haven't been successful yet with 31 dead and counting.

What about the people that just happen to be in the neighborhood? How many children would you blow up to get a bad guy? 20, 200 2,000? Go ahead and pick a number.

What about them... Your peace signs and protest will do no good. Your ideas of talking a situation to death does no good. At some point you have to say enough is enough and actually have the balls to stand up and fight for what you need. If the terrorists they are after had any concern for there fellow citizens then they would not operate from highly populated areas. They purposely use them as human shield in the hoops of detering an attack and using an attack as propaganda for the sign carriers. There is a distinction between targeting civilians and collateral damage. NO...... it doesn't make them any less dead and it doesn't mean it's not a shame. But if your willing to help, aide and assist people that are going to turn around and use you as a shield.... well then you can't be to surprised if you get blown.

Pick a number.... 0

But people die in war... children die.. I would not try to kill any children if at all possible. But if a child dies while I am going after an objective to make my family, my neighborhood and or my country safer.... Then thats the cost. If you are not willing to pay that cost, rise up and push the animals out.

How many of your friends realatives and country men are you willing to sacrifice standing behind your sign? How many must die before you would be willing to do what it takes to make the people around you safe??
How many?

 

[Calm2Chaos]

its not some kinda word game. Its a simple argument. You cannot blame the militants for all the civilian deaths. Would you try to bomb a crowd of innocent people to get a terrorist hiding among them, or organize raids through the special forces to take that guy out?

The families of the civilians are obviously not thinking its the militants fault. Its an israeli bomb that killed them. At worst they are angry and frustrated at both parties. So all you have a is a fresh batch of angry civilians who are now willing to fight against the Israeli invaders.

So the terrorists have no blame? They are able to strike with impunity as long as they do so from civilian centers so nobody can retailiate.
I wouldn't bomb the crowd, I would bomb the terrorist. Everyone ends up eaqually dead, but I can sleep with that.

Question: If the crowd is not willing to grab the terrorist and bring him to justice. Why should I care about the crowd shielding him? That all but makes them accomplices

 

[cascadian]

It wasn't a word game, unfortunately it is now since people insist on attributing arguments to me that I am not making. Where did I say the militants were to blame for all civilian deaths?

I pointed out that your blanket statement failed to differentiate your POV from giving Israel carte blanche. I sincerely doubted that was your intent, but I saw no other way to intepret it. I think it should be a relatively easy distinction for you to make clear if you actually wanted to. But if you don't make the distinction clear, then don't be surprised if people interpret it as such.

Sometimes missiles miss. Sometimes there's crossfire. That's what happens in war, it's unfortunate, but it's reality.

So when Hezbollah captured the soldier, was it war then or only when Israel responded?

See, your problem is that you're attempting to take a response to one subject (why there are so many civilian casualties) and apply it to another (reasonable boundaries for Israel). I don't feel like playing that game.

You quoted Berlagstroll, who asked the question, " because if Israel are allowed to mostly kill civilians why can't Hizbollah do the same?" Which seems quite clearly to me to address reasonable boundaries for Israel. But hey, if you care to clear that up, I'm listening.

 

[cascadian]

What about them... Your peace signs and protest will do no good. Your ideas of talking a situation to death does no good.

Well I suggested focusing efforts on rescuing the soldiers, which at least wouldn't have killed 330 + human beings. What good has Israel accomplished with its actions?

At some point you have to say enough is enough and actually have the balls to stand up and fight for what you need.

So this is about bravado then?

But if your willing to help, aide and assist people that are going to turn around and use you as a shield.... well then you can't be to surprised if you get blown.

Bombs can't make the distinction between those that aid that those that don't.

But people die in war... children die.. I would not try to kill any children if at all possible. But if a child dies while I am going after an objective to make my family, my neighborhood and or my country safer....

Ok so your family is important and other people's aren't. I can understand that.

How many of your friends realatives and country men are you willing to sacrifice standing behind your sign? How many must die before you would be willing to do what it takes to make the people around you safe??How many?

Well, a few as possible obviously, but with 31 Israelis dead so far, I fail to see how Israel's escalation has saved any lives.


Look, if Hezbollah was disbanded, that would be great. If I thought killing all of those people would actually get rid of them, then I could give your argument some weight. But this simply will not get rid of Hezbollah.

 

[Jerry]

Why does the rest of the world allow the State of Israel to get away with pretty well anything they darnwell want to???

The hand of God protects Israel. If we turn against Israel then we suffer God's wrath.

 

[cherokee]

cascadian]
So when Hezbollah captured the soldier, was it war then or only when Israel responded?

Hmm?? I would have to say the second they crossed the boarder, kill the Israeli soldiers and took the others hostage. How’s that?

You quoted Berlagstroll, who asked the question, " because if Israel are allowed to mostly kill civilians why can't Hizbollah do the same?" Which seems quite clearly to me to address reasonable boundaries for Israel. But hey, if you care to clear that up, I'm listening.

Combat Tactics.

The only reasons civilians are being killed are
1. They (civilians) have allowed the Hezbolla to set up lunching points from their homes, with the Hezbolla knowing damn well they will become targets for Israelis return attacks.

How do you slow down a powerful Army? You exploit the faces of dead kids in the worlds press.

2. Those same people have allowed the Hezbolla to operate in Lebanon turning a blind eye or even helping them
believing “in the Cause”

Face it buddy Hezbolla targets any person they can kill. They don’t care as long as its Jewish. They DO NOT follow any ROE’s (Rules of Engagement).
Solider or school kid it makes no difference to them.

 

[Kelzie]

I pointed out that your blanket statement failed to differentiate your POV from giving Israel carte blanche. I sincerely doubted that was your intent, but I saw no other way to intepret it. I think it should be a relatively easy distinction for you to make clear if you actually wanted to. But if you don't make the distinction clear, then don't be surprised if people interpret it as such.

That's because my statement WAS NOT ON the acceptable limits for Israel's actions. I refuse to clarify my statement to make it apply to something I was not responding to.

So when Hezbollah captured the soldier, was it war then or only when Israel responded?

It was an act of war that I do not blame Israel for responding to.

You quoted Berlagstroll, who asked the question, " because if Israel are allowed to mostly kill civilians why can't Hizbollah do the same?" Which seems quite clearly to me to address reasonable boundaries for Israel. But hey, if you care to clear that up, I'm listening.

I already did. If you'd care to read my response to him, I quite clearly pointed out that the reason was because Hezbollah places their military bases next to civilian centers. But I'm sure that's Israel's fault, right?

 

[Billo_Really]

Israel can go to hell for targeting civilians. And Hezbollah go f.uck themselves for sending rockets into Israel and kidnapping their people. Israel is a little too quick with the military option. But what does Hezbollah expect when they pull s.hit like this. The entire world should condemn both of them for starting this crap!

All that being said, I have to admit, Israels plan to invade Hezbollah and take out their capacity to wage war and to not seek a buffer zone, but to allow the Lebanese army the ability to come in and control a weaker Hezbollah, is doable.
If this is what they really want to do.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

The hand of God protects Israel. If we turn against Israel then we suffer God's wrath.

I am god.

 

[Jerry]

I am god.

That explains a few things :smile:

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

That explains a few things :smile:

Now you know and knowing is half the battle.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by TOT:
I am god.

No your not, TOT, Eric Clapton is!

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

No your not, TOT, Eric Clapton is!

Eric Clapton sucks my left nut.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by TOT:
Eric Clapton sucks my left nut.

Feel free not to share everything...

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Feel free not to share everything...

slow, repeditive, and dull that's how he plays guitar too. :lol:

 

[cherokee]

Eric Clapton sucks my left nut.

bitch you see just what the hell you’re making me do?
God I hate you now I feel so dirty having to agree with billo!....:mrgreen:

Eric Clapton sucks?
Buddy you have GOT to lay off the crack!
EC is one of the greatest!
If you say you hate the Eagles I'll have to hang you...

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by TOT:
slow, repeditive, and dull that's how he plays guitar too.

"Repetative?" Have you ever heard the saying,

"It's better to let people think you are stupid,
than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!"

That's what you're doing now...

 

[cascadian]

That's because my statement WAS NOT ON the acceptable limits for Israel's actions. I refuse to clarify my statement to make it apply to something I was not responding to.

I find it odd that a person who posts on a debate message board doesn't want to clarify their views. Oh well. Hope you have fun preaching to the choir.

 

[cascadian]

The only reasons civilians are being killed are
1. They (civilians) have allowed the Hezbolla to set up lunching points from their homes, with the Hezbolla knowing damn well they will become targets for Israelis return attacks.

And the Israelis damn well knew that civilians would die too. Are you proposing the Israelis are automatons whose decisions are driven by the will of Hezbollah? Otherwise, you have to accept Israel's role in this. Certainly the options that Hezbollah offered were not good, but I think Israel has chosen quite poorly from both a humanitarian and a tactical standpoint.

2. Those same people have allowed the Hezbolla to operate in Lebanon turning a blind eye or even helping them
believing “in the Cause”

Those dead children you mentioned were especially deserving huh?

Face it buddy Hezbolla targets any person they can kill. They don’t care as long as its Jewish. They DO NOT follow any ROE’s (Rules of Engagement).
Solider or school kid it makes no difference to them.

I can accept this, but you won't defeat Hezbollah this way. It's not about being nice it's about understanding that blowing people up doesn't stop terrorism.

 

[BudLizard101]

Would you rather have a HUGE group with 12000+ rockets trying to kill you, or a group of 100 with limited munitions?

No one said that HZ will be eliminated by Israel in this mission, but if HZ is severally crippled that works also.

 

[nkgupta80]

Would you rather have a HUGE group with 12000+ rockets trying to kill you, or a group of 100 with limited munitions?

No one said that HZ will be eliminated by Israel in this mission, but if HZ is severally crippled that works also.

severly crippled? Out of the g 500,000 displaced im bettin half are already pledgin allegience to hezbollah. So what if you take away they're missiles now. They'll get more.

 

[BudLizard101]

That's your opinion and theory on what will happen. We'll wait and see. I for one, think the exact opposite. Only time will tell.