Why do people get offended when it's pointed out that not voting for Harris helped Trump win?

[multivita-man]

I've had some interactions with a few people on this board who say they don't support Trump but didn't vote or voted third party because they didn't like Harris. And when I point out that they are partly responsible for Trump being in office, I get a lot of pushback.

They feel they did the principled thing of being true to their feelings that, in their estimation, neither candidate was deserving of their vote, which I can understand.

The problem isn't that their principle is wrong. The problem is that, in the current context, it's not the principle with the greatest value. The greater principle to observe is to keep a disastrous president out of power.

I guess that when they voted, and I suppose even now, their understanding of disaster is different from ours. They believe that any disaster can always be rectified by voting in election that follows. That may not be the case this time, especially considering how he upended the law and the Constitution the last time he was told to leave office.

 

[MamboDervish]

I will never forgive the people who didn't vote for Harris, the people who complained about Biden and Harris or the people who used world against events against a Biden and Harris.

It gave us Trump and fascism. They were so shortsighted.

I feel the same way about people who didn't bother to vote for Clinton, whatever their feeble reasons. Trump should have never occupied the Oval Office the first time, either.

 

[Felis Leo]

Post #4

Wrong. You didn't do as much as you could to ensure that the cluster**** that is trump didn't return to the Oval Office.

If you don't agree that trump is an incompetent, corrupt, anti-American authoritarian, you have no reason to argue that your vote for a third-party candidate wasn't the maximum action you could take to keep trump out of the Presidency.

If you're okay with trump as POTUS, there's no reason to be defensive.

Here I must offer some push back on this, Pyrite.

Not for a third-party vote, mind you (Especially for American third-parties, because Libertarians are gross and Greens are Russian plants) but for those who refused to vote on moral grounds.

I have drawn this rather repulsive comparison a couple times, but I think it crystalizes the issue somewhat.

Imagine a scenario in which you were forced to have to choose between two candidates for a random political office: One candidate is a violent serial rapist, and is proud of it. He is an unrepentant, disgusting monster, but has managed to dodge every criminal charge on account of legal technical grounds due to an incompetent D.A.'s office, and makes it clear he intends to rape again. The other candidate, meanwhile, makes it clear while they are not a rapist and are personally against rape, they are against taking any actions to stop rape from occurring or punishing rapists generally. The opposing candidate assiduously avoids condemning their opponent for being a rapist, and quiets any attacks from his own campaign against the rapist candidate. It is later found out that part of their reason for avoiding this issue is because they paid a huge amount of their campaign war chest to political consultants to instruct them as such, so as not to be considered an extreme woke, far-left anti-rapist, and alienate potential voters who might find anti-rape talk uncomfortable.

Now, obviously one of these candidates is clearly more abhorrent than the other. But can you see why some people would choose to throw their hands up in disgust and refuse to vote for either on moral grounds? Because I believe that is the equivalent choice that Americans were given in November 2024 between the two parties and their candidates. Two candidates, one monstrous, the other, not monstrous, but an empty nullity. I voted for the moral nullity versus evil. But it would have been nice to stand for someone who sought to do good just as much as Trump seeks to do evil.

 

[Fearandloathing]

I will never forgive the people who didn't vote for Harris, the people who complained about Biden and Harris or the people who used world against events against a Biden and Harris.

It gave us Trump and fascism. They were so shortsighted.

I blame the people who left us with no choice.

They way the campaign got shifted from loser Biden to loser Harris put me off entirely. Harris will NEVER have the qualifications to be president. She's a good political tool but not a strong thinker. She lost a debate with TRUMP!!!!!!!!!

My guppy could beat Trump in a debate.

Democrats should have come clean about Biden's mental illness a lot sooner.

 

[MamboDervish]

I blame the people who left us with no choice.

They way the campaign got shifted from loser Biden to loser Harris put me off entirely. Harris will NEVER have the qualifications to be president. She's a good political tool but not a strong thinker. She lost a debate with TRUMP!!!!!!!!!

My guppy could beat Trump in a debate.

Democrats should have come clean about Biden's mental illness a lot sooner.

You must have watched a different debate than the one I saw. Harris destroyed Trump in their only debate, so much so in fact that he refused to have another out of embarrassment in the first.

 

[multivita-man]

You must have watched a different debate than the one I saw. Harris destroyed Trump in their only debate, so much so in fact that he refused to have another out of embarrassment in the first.

She might have won the debate, but that didn't really matter all that much. I don't really blame Harris, though. This was an election between pre-COVID nostalgia and post-COVID reality and nostalgia won.

 

[Fearandloathing]

You must have watched a different debate than the one I saw. Harris destroyed Trump in their only debate, so much so in fact that he refused to have another out of embarrassment in the first.

Ok, so you say.


As a Canadian I had no stake in the outcome and did not care. Trump wiped the floor with her.

She's pretty stupid

 

[CaughtInThe]

I blame the people who left us with no choice.

They way the campaign got shifted from loser Biden to loser Harris put me off entirely. Harris will NEVER have the qualifications to be president. She's a good political tool but not a strong thinker. She lost a debate with TRUMP!!!!!!!!!

My guppy could beat Trump in a debate.

Democrats should have come clean about Biden's mental illness a lot sooner.

Neither Biden nor Harris is a loser compared to Trump.

 

[Tigerace117]

?? Mango MAGAt magnet was just as supportive of Israel.

As has been repeatedly mentioned, the Democrats going “but Trump was just as bad as us” is not a convincing way to get people to vote for them.

 

[Tigerace117]

Post #5


Voters have a responsibility to act to put into office candidates whom they think take actions that are in the interests of the USA and its people.

This time around, we all knew what kind of President trump had been. Moreover, prior to the election, trump told the public how he would use the powers of the Presidency. Those who thought he would be a competent POTUS and CinC voted for him. The same goes for those who didn't vote or voted for a third-party candidate. For these voters, reinstating trump in the Oval Office was an acceptable option.

For the Democrats, the idea of losing the election was an acceptable outcome to keep the weaponry flowing to Tel Aviv, as it turned out.

 

[Tigerace117]

You keep saying that as if Trumps election is going to make it better not worse.

You keep ignoring the reality that the Democrats failed to demonstrate that they were any better than Trump.

 

[holbritter]

Even though CA is solid blue back when I lived there we elected Republicans George Deukmejian Jr., Pete Wilson and the Terminator lol...

I’m referring to presidential elections

 

[Gardener]

I do not wish to be governed from Davos Switzerland, myself.

 

[NolanVoyd]

You keep ignoring the reality that the Democrats failed to demonstrate that they were any better than Trump.

Of course they were better then Trump.

You know Trump is worse then Harris on Israel.

You know no third party was going to win.

Yet you helped Trump get elected.

What does that say about you?

 

[gman]

Are you a citizen of this country? I ask because based on your comments, you aren't showing any understanding of how the US political system works.

Yes I am.
How am I not understanding how our political system works?

 

[reflechissez]

That’s nothing more than a bullshit answer. Since when do I lose my first amendment right by not voting for your preferred candidate?

Only the government can take your first amendment rights; an anonymous poster on DP -- not so much.

 

[gman]

Are you a citizen of this country? I ask because based on your comments, you aren't showing any understanding of how the US political system works.

Still sticking with the vote shaming track I see. For the next 4 years you and others on this forum will continue to piss, moan, and cry. Not one of you is willing to accept the fact that the reason Harris lost is because of a dysfunctional Democratic Party and a brain addled Biden, who because of his ego helped sink Harris election. Do some real research before you go shooting from the lip. It’s very obvious you and others show very little evidence of knowing what was going on behind the scenes. Maybe you all can get your act together for the next presidential election. Until then you’ll have to try to win the mid terms and thwart Trumps agenda.

 

[Lursa]

As has been repeatedly mentioned, the Democrats going “but Trump was just as bad as us” is not a convincing way to get people to vote for them.

It does however, cancel out your stated reason.

 

[Bodi]

I've had some interactions with a few people on this board who say they don't support Trump but didn't vote or voted third party because they didn't like Harris. And when I point out that they are partly responsible for Trump being in office, I get a lot of pushback.

If the people who didn't vote for President voted for Harris and the people who voted third party voted Harris, Trump would not have won. Am I misunderstanding something fundamental about the way our elections work?

You are misunderstanding "responsibility".

Sounds like you might need to work your friend skills as well...
nobody like to be accused of being responsible for all the
shit that I am sure you accuse Trump of engaging in.



g

 

[Bodi]

Most third-party voters have almost as much lack of self-awareness as tRump himself. The choice was binary--either tRump or Harris was going to win the election.

Anyone who didn't like that can go pound sand.

It is not about wo wins the election... it is about Freedom of Speech. It is also about personal responsibility. Blame Trump. Not those that did not vote the way you think that they should have.

 

[Bodi]

Many people on both ends of the political spectrum have some imaginary picture of what they think would be "perfect", and many of those same people have a blind spot about what it takes to not make "the perfect" the enemy of "the good", ... or at least "the better".

While voting for the lesser of two evils might not be ideal, at the very least it keeps the greater of two evils out of office. And Trump is proving, once again, to be the much greater of two evils.

There is no assurance that Harris would have been Lesser... she was grossly incompetent and came across as a moron. Who knows what trouble she could have caused.


j

 

[Bodi]

Depends what state you're in. If I didn't vote (I did), my state always goes Democrat. Doesn't matter who I voted for.

^^^ then there is this. Correct. Millions of Voters votes do not count. At . All .

 

[Tangmo]

I voted Libertarian, knowing either Trump or Harris would win. Knowing that neither of them would make any changes to what I feel most needing changed, along with the fact that neither of them could or would have a negative effect on my life, the only options were to vote third party or not at all.
I felt the third party choice was the better choice, as it shows a distaste for both the Republican and Democrat candidates rather than a simple I don't care by not voting. I want a good candidate, not a least worst.

You brought fascism is what you did do.

 

[Bodi]

Frankly, I’m tired of this conversation and iterations of it.

There were two viable options. And two potential outcomes.

Anyone who stayed home and/or voted 3rd party was perfectly fine with the reality we are now living.

How are people perfectly fine with a future that is not known?

 

[MamboDervish]

Ok, so you say.


As a Canadian I had no stake in the outcome and did not care. Trump wiped the floor with her.

She's pretty stupid

Harris seen as debate winner while maintaining slight lead over Trump: POLL

Americans broadly pick Kamala Harris as the winner of last week's widely watched presidential debate – yet neither she nor Donald Trump moved the needle in polling.

abcnews.go.com

How Kamala Harris won the US presidential debate against Donald Trump - Beyond

Vice President Kamala Harris arrived at the first presidential showdown with Donald Trump with a clear plan

beyond.ubc.ca

Harris wins the debate: Voters say she has clearer plans and tells fewer lies than Trump | YouGov

Voters thought Harris spent more time during the debate explaining what she'd do if elected rather than attacking her opponent. The opposite is true for Trump.

today.yougov.com

How Kamala Harris won the U.S. presidential debate against Donald Trump

Donald Trump and his supporters have trotted out an array of conspiracies about why he struggled so badly in his first debate against Kamala Harris. Preparation, however, is no conspiracy.

theconversation.com

https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/abc-news-ipsos-september-post-debate-2024

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/09/11/harris-biden-debate-winner-takeaways-00178442

I had no idea that Canadians engaged in revisionist US history.
Live and learn, I guess.