Why did you pick atheism?

[Roger Duke]

No “soul”. Myth.

Calling it a myth accomplished nothing but it does sounds like a fun debate strategy.
Let me try:
Your myth is a myth.
That was fun.

 

[Roger Duke]

Great debate everybody.....a lot of smart folks on this thread. Thanks for participating. I'm heading to bed and look forward to continuing tomorrow.

 

[Lursa]

Now that the thread is winding down it wouldn't be as bad to ask 6 questions in one post but at the time you posted it, the thread was hard to keep up with. Atheists have avoided and/or deflected so many of my questions on this thread but knowing you from other threads you aren't like that so I took the time to go back.

'K

1) We are not carbon copies of our parents' beliefs and personalities.

So that makes it even harder for you to justify 'why' atheists would be interested in or accept a religion. The question was, "If you werent raised with any specific faith...wouldnt it seem odd to just believe in some unprovable myths?" What would motivate someone raised "not believing in a mythical deity" (mythical to them) when it's more of a hurdle for people to believe in things that cannot be proven? (I havent seen you claim you can prove God exists but I havent read every thread).

2) Of course it shouldn't, but if they look into it, they might change their mind.

Why? That's the same for anything...trying a new food, visiting a new place, meeting new people. Your answer is so general it's meaningless. YOu are asking atheists for real answers...but you didnt provide one.

They might...but they might not. You seem to believe it's ridiculous that they wont 'take the great Christian deal of forgiveness and everlasting life." That has been the overall message I've gotten from your posts. What makes that 'unseen, phantom of a promise' tempting to someone that's living in the here and now?

3) It depends on what you ask.

Here's what I asked. Check out the last sentence.

"That's why different people discover different beliefs and philosophies in life. They find things that have meaning for them. An atheist may find meaning in some other philosophy or path or perspective besides a religion. Is there something wrong with that? Something you find hard to believe or unacceptable in that? If so, please explain."​

4) Yes, it has been explained in dozens of my posts

I havent read all your posts. Can you please post your quotes or at least the post numbers?

5) I don't understand the question.

You are using the reason that a person that comes to your Christian God will have eternal life if he 'signs up' for your religion. That's a very self-serving reason...you dont even describe the incredible relationship (some) Christians describe they have with God. Or how following His Word makes you a better person and you treat your fellow man better. You go right to..."hey, sign up and you get this!"

Why? Is that the reason that you follow your Christian faith? As an insurance policy for after you die? Or to live by His Word here on Earth as an example. To share His Word.

6) My faith is based on much more than that.

Here's the question again: "If you are a person who understands science and reality, and do not have faith, why on earth would you just submit to beliefs out of fear or some unprovable 'promise' of Heaven?"

We're talking about people that dont have your faith or knowledge of God. So again...please look at the question and answer it from that perspective. I only used that 'fear/promise of Heaven' example because at the time, that's all you were presenting as a reason. Feel free to explain why else they should follow Him then, reasons that would appeal to atheists, or people with perspectives based in science and real, tangible things.

 

[HonestJoe]

It just boggles my mind why anybody would pick a path that they knew was destined to end unhappily over one that at least, has a chance of ending well.

Then why do you keep asserting that they do choose? Why can't you accept the possibility that atheism (like theism) isn't a conscious choice based on rational consideration?

Atheism offers none. Religion offers eternal love.

Atheism isn't the opposite of religion, it is the opposite of theism. People can be both atheists and religious and people can be theists but non-religious. Far from all religions offer "eternal love", especially not in real-world practice.

Atheism only refers to the characteristic of not believing in any god or gods. It is perfectly possible for an atheist to have positive beliefs about what happens to us after physical death, the general the meaning of life or existence and how we can have a positive outlook on existence, even in the face of it's apparent non-permeance. Equally, theists are perfectly capable of holding highly negative views of life and the universe, sometimes behaving in horrific ways as a consequence. So even if atheism or theism was a conscious choice, neither option would be automatically or implicitly positive or negative. There is much, much more to our individual outlooks than these singular characteristics.

Unless you are able to understand and accept these fundamental points, you are going to remain unnecessarily confused. If your conclusion makes no sense to you, there is on obvious possible reason for that to consider that so many people implicitly overlook.

And as the Wager goes, if I am wrong I have wasted a lifetime. If they are wrong they've wasted eternity.

This is Pascal's Wager (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_wager) and it is fundamentally logically flawed on a number of bases. Put simply, if you are wrong, there could still be an eternity in which you will suffer for choosing the wrong god or religion or a eternity where our status has absolutely nothing to do with believing in gods or not.

 

[tosca1]

Logic. No evidence, no God. Same as Santa Claus or the Yeti or Thor.

It defies logic.
BECAUSE, NOTHING SUPPORTS YOUR CLAIM.

You don't seem to understand what logic is.


Science doesn't discount the possibility of creation by God or a Supreme Being.
In fact, it even went as far as to point to scientific facts that are compatible with creation.

Just because you can't see the evidence doesn't mean they don't exist.

Don't mistake evidence for proof.
What you want is a physical being to miraculously show Himself with the word "GOD," tattooed on His forehead. Even then, I doubt if you'd believe Him.

 

[watsup]

I get two great things in life and you only get one? That hardly seems fair.

I get a great thing that you don’t, which is not wallowing in myth and superstition, but rather living and enjoying life without having to depend on such a crutch.

 

[watsup]

Calling it a myth accomplished nothing but it does sounds like a fun debate strategy.
Let me try:
Your myth is a myth.
That was fun.

Of course it’s a myth. There is not an iota of actual objective, reality-based evidence that such an entity exists. Do you have any, other than “witnessing”? I didn’t think so.

 

[watsup]

It defies logic.
BECAUSE, NOTHING SUPPORTS YOUR CLAIM.

You don't seem to understand what logic is.


Science doesn't discount the possibility of creation by God or a Supreme Being.
In fact, it even went as far as to point to scientific facts that are compatible with creation.

Just because you can't see the evidence doesn't mean they don't exist.

Don't mistake evidence for proof.
What you want is a physical being to miraculously show Himself with the word "GOD," tattooed on His forehead. Even then, I doubt if you'd believe Him.

Blah blah blah. Essentially the same post that you have made literally HUNDREDS of times before, and yet you haven’t been able to actually present even a single bit of evidence. No evidence, no God. It’s just that simple.

 

[Questerr]

Will it?

"A generation is going, and a generation is coming,
But the earth remains forever." Ecclesiastes 1:4

"He made his sanctuary as enduring as the heavens,
Like the earth that he has established forever." Psalm 78:69

"He has established the earth on its foundations;
It will not be moved from its place forever and ever." Psalm 104:5

Because the men who wrote that book had no idea about the cycles of stars and how eventually our sun will grow to the point it will consume the Earth.

They were ignorant goat herders who didn’t even know the Earth orbited the sun. They thought it was the other way around.

 

[Daisy]

Because the men who wrote that book had no idea about the cycles of stars and how eventually our sun will grow to the point it will consume the Earth.

They were ignorant goat herders who didn’t even know the Earth orbited the sun. They thought it was the other way around.

Granted the RCC believed such but the Bible nowhere states that the sun orbits the earth...it was the ancient astronomer Ptolemy who started that lie in the 2nd century...

 

[Questerr]

Granted the RCC believed such but the Bible nowhere states that the sun orbits the earth...it was the ancient astronomer Ptolemy who started that lie in the 2nd century...

The ancient Hebrews cosmological model was a flat earth covered in a dome and that the sun and moon were two small lights that moved along the inner surface of the dome.

They most definitely didn’t believe in anything approaching the correct model for how the cosmos is oriented and functions.

 

[devildavid]

Sounds like you are getting close to describing a soul. Let's go a little further here. Do you think thoughts are energy?

No, not at all. Thoughts are some sort of electric impulse created by the nervous system and brain. All animals with nervous systems and brains experience thoughts. It is all physical. If by soul you are referring to something non physical, then there is no soul.

 

[devildavid]

Does this means you wouldn't be able to check a box if the choices were:
I believe I am alive.
I don't believe I am alive.

Those are not valid choices. I know that I am alive. My being alive has nothing to do with beliefs. If it did, who is the me that is believing it? I did not believe myself or any other part of reality into existence since there was no me to speak of before I was physically conceived in my mother's womb. Do the sperm and egg believe they are real before they combine? Does the fertilized egg believe it is becoming a human being?

 

[gboisjo]

I'm very confident. Thanks for asking.
I guess we are coming to the point that all these threads come to. Nobody really convinces anybody to change their mind.
You are right that I can't accept your viewpoint.....especially since there is an alternative you can choose that would give you hope.
I've read books promoting atheism. Maybe you should try ones that promote religion. The good ones open the mind up, not close it.

You never stop proselytizing, do you.

Recruiting is one of the more sickening aspects of Christians.

Christian Missionaries were convinced they could change every Indian savage into the correct likeness of themselves.

 

[gboisjo]

That doesn't make me any better than anyone. It simply makes hope better than nothingness.

Grow some balls, when I die I die.

It makes the here and now that much more valuable.

Legacies are all that move forward after death.

 

[Roger Duke]

No, not at all. Thoughts are some sort of electric impulse created by the nervous system and brain. All animals with nervous systems and brains experience thoughts. It is all physical. If by soul you are referring to something non physical, then there is no soul.

Since when is electric not energy?

 

[Roger Duke]

Recruiting is one of the more sickening aspects of Christians.

And the atheists here aren't trying to recruit? Oh, that's right, you are smarter than me so calling it a different word will make you a better person. Go ahead, what is the word?

 

[Roger Duke]

Grow some balls, when I die I die.

My sexual parts don't change anything. My courage, or lack thereof, doesn't change anything. All that matters is facts. I can't prove it as fact that there is an afterlife but I'm sure we will both agree that I have faith and hope and you have absolutely nothing except feeling enlightened that you and everyone you love are on a path to eternal meaninglessness. Low self esteem is a horrible thing.

 

[Lursa]

And the atheists here aren't trying to recruit? Oh, that's right, you are smarter than me so calling it a different word will make you a better person. Go ahead, what is the word?

"Recruit?" What does that look like? There's nothing to join.

And if they did so and you believe them wrong...then since God asks His Children to share His Word ("recruit")...why isnt that wrong?

 

[watsup]

My sexual parts don't change anything. My courage, or lack thereof, doesn't change anything. All that matters is facts. I can't prove it as fact that there is an afterlife but I'm sure we will both agree that I have faith and hope and you have absolutely nothing except feeling enlightened that you and everyone you love are on a path to eternal meaninglessness. Low self esteem is a horrible thing.

Gaslighting is a horrible thing, and yet you engage in it over and over and over. If you can’t sell your “faith” by making positive claims, but rather must engage in telling others that they have low self esteem (they don’t, that’s an out-and-out lie) and using terms such as “horrible” and “meaningless” and “absolutely nothing” with respect to them, then it’s really not much of a faith if people essentially have to be scared into it, is it?
Why on Earth would I want to join a “faith” that has to use scare tactics in order to try to recruit. Answer: I don’t. It certainly does not meet the criteria that Jesus established in being very positive almost all the time. Funny, I never heard him use such insulting terms towards people in the street. Does it make you proud to do so? Why would I want to join a “faith” that relies on such hateful verbiage as you present? Answer again: I don’t.
You: “Please join me so that you too can berate people by telling that they must feel horrible and have no hope and can look forward only to absolutely meaningless nothing!”
No Hanks.

 

[Roger Duke]

L

"Recruit?" What does that look like? There's nothing to join.

Atheists don't have organizations?
Even if they didn't, you do want people to join something: Your belief system of hopelessness, eternal darkness and nothingness.
And you package it as wisdom and enlightenment. It couldn't be more opposite.

 

[Roger Duke]

Gaslighting

This has gotten pretty funny. Every time you don't understand something or agree with it you call it gaslighting. Try to expand your vocabulary a little more.....and your mind.....but I get it, atheists live in a small little world where there is nothing bigger to consider than human intelligence.....so sad.

 

[Lursa]

L
Atheists don't have organizations?

Correct. If you disagree, please list some.

Even if they didn't, you do want people to join something: Your belief system of hopelessness, eternal darkness and nothingness.

I do? I'm not even an atheist. Why are you accusing me of something without any foundation to do so? It's almost like you're lying...are you? If not you are definitely making it up.

And you package it as wisdom and enlightenment. It couldn't be more opposite.

I've done no such thing...quote where I've done that. It's like you are responding to an entirely different post. Please try again, I'll post it for you:

​

"Recruit?" What does that look like? There's nothing to join.​

​

And if they did so and you believe them wrong...then since God asks His Children to share His Word ("recruit")...why isnt that wrong?​

 

[devildavid]

Since when is electric not energy?

I didn't say it wasn't Not sure where this is coming form. Electric impulses are an example of physical energy.

 

[devildavid]

L
Atheists don't have organizations?
Even if they didn't, you do want people to join something: Your belief system of hopelessness, eternal darkness and nothingness.
And you package it as wisdom and enlightenment. It couldn't be more opposite.

Atheism is not a belief system of any kind. So stop with the straw man crap.