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Why Catholics cannot worship properly from home (1 Viewer)

But they can adapt temporarily to restrictions for the greater good. People have to do it all the time. It isnt that difficult. People make it difficult from their stubbornness.

Perhaps what you call "stubbornness" is a determination to be independent and make choices for oneself rather than being told what to do.

I chose to begin self-isolating on 3-11 and except for keeping long-scheduled medical appointments and a once-a-week trip to the grocery store, I still am.
 
From the Encyclopedia Britannica[bolding mine]: Mass, the central act of worship of the Roman Catholic Church, which culminates in celebration of the sacrament of the Eucharist. mass | Church, Definition, & Facts | Britannica

No offense friend, but I find in curious that within the context of a theological debate that you would cite as a source the Encyclopedia Britanica rather than any specific scripture.

All four Gospels discuss the Last Supper and Christ's "Do this in remembrance of me." So how are Catholics who go to church going "through a lot of 'motions' someone convinced them they must do which for the most part are not described in the holy scriptures" that are not Biblical?

Okay, a little better, but where in the Gospels do Catholics get "do this in remembrance of me"-- (in remembrance of the sacrifice Christ was foretelling during the last supper (Passover meal) into some mystical ceremony where the bread and wine ACTUALLY becomes the body of Christ-- only to be perpetually sacrificed again, and again, and again, and again... virtually forever within a Roman Catholic church??? Where in the Gospels or in the Epistles is this magical ceremony described and/or commanded?

Fact is it isn't, and that is why I questioned the OP's contention that this "ceremony" isn't understood by other people? I would say that Protestants do understand what Catholics are claiming, but they reject that claim the same way they reject the claim by Morman's for example in their "temple ceremonies" can baptize the dead and covert the dead into Mormans. If something isn't scriptural, then it basically made up by men.

Think of "do this in remembrance of me" within the context of the Passover meal (last supper) where Jews come together and eat certain foods and contemplate their deliverance from bondage in Egypt. It is to remember with a solemn heart and mind what God provides for them. So when Jesus said that during the Passover it was to establish a new sacrament for his followers. It was so they would remember the blood and body sacrifice which was done ON THE CROSS--- not at that table.

I just find it curious that Catholics don't understand so much about the things they are being told they must do.
 
No offense friend, but I find in curious that within the context of a theological debate that you would cite as a source the Encyclopedia Britanica rather than any specific scripture.

Uh, because it was the first Google hit? Because "Mass" isn't defined in the Bible? Take your pick...friend.

Okay, a little better, but where in the Gospels do Catholics get "do this in remembrance of me"-- (in remembrance of the sacrifice Christ was foretelling during the last supper (Passover meal) into some mystical ceremony where the bread and wine ACTUALLY becomes the body of Christ-- only to be perpetually sacrificed again, and again, and again, and again... virtually forever within a Roman Catholic church??? Where in the Gospels or in the Epistles is this magical ceremony described and/or commanded?

Fact is it isn't, and that is why I questioned the OP's contention that this "ceremony" isn't understood by other people? I would say that Protestants do understand what Catholics are claiming, but they reject that claim the same way they reject the claim by Morman's for example in their "temple ceremonies" can baptize the dead and covert the dead into Mormans. If something isn't scriptural, then it basically made up by men.

Think of "do this in remembrance of me" within the context of the Passover meal (last supper) where Jews come together and eat certain foods and contemplate their deliverance from bondage in Egypt. It is to remember with a solemn heart and mind what God provides for them. So when Jesus said that during the Passover it was to establish a new sacrament for his followers. It was so they would remember the blood and body sacrifice which was done ON THE CROSS--- not at that table.

I just find it curious that Catholics don't understand so much about the things they are being told they must do.

Ah, the unthinking ignorance/blind obedience gambit. Well, have it. I'm not really much interested in arguing over what other people believe; I was simply trying to provide facts. Good to know that an encyclopedia's definition is "unacceptable," though.
 
Uh, because it was the first Google hit? Because "Mass" isn't defined in the Bible? Take your pick...friend.

No it isn't. But the epistles are chock full of what is supposed to be included in, or not included in the "order of worship" to use a phrase. Paul spends a lot of time admonishing churches for what not to do and what they are required to do.

So again, no need to go to Google, go to the source--- the Bible.
Ah, the unthinking ignorance/blind obedience gambit. Well, have it. I'm not really much interested in arguing over what other people believe; I was simply trying to provide facts. Good to know that an encyclopedia's definition is "unacceptable," though.

Again, I think you missed my point... and I did not mean to offend. The OP opened the door to the discussion; a challenge so to speak in that people do not understand what Catholics need to do. I in turn challenged that thinking wondering if Catholics actually believe (based on the theology their faith is founded on) what they actually individually need to do? I am of the opinion that if a religious group is going to claim something, then they will need to back it up in the very source (the Bible) where they supposedly based their theology from in the first place. So unless the Bible isn't a reliable source for Catholics too, then I guess we are just looking at this from different perspectives.

So what happens if a Catholic cannot attend mass for some length of time? Do they go to hell for that--- even if the circumstances for their absence is out of their control? I don't think even you believe that to be the case do you?

I guess I just find it ironic really that the differences between Catholics and Protestants are often more pronounced than the differences between Christians and Jews. And that being said I would refer you to 1st Corinthians 11 if you want to read about what the symbolism of the bread and wine represent. Key words "in remembrance" should not be confused with any claim that the bread and wine are in fact the same body. I guess I just find it mind boggling how Catholics get that so wrong when it so simply detailed in the scriptures as representing an act of memorializing the sacrifice---not redoing the sacrifice again and again.
 
No it isn't. But the epistles are chock full of what is supposed to be included in, or not included in the "order of worship" to use a phrase. Paul spends a lot of time admonishing churches for what not to do and what they are required to do.

So again, no need to go to Google, go to the source--- the Bible.


Again, I think you missed my point... and I did not mean to offend. The OP opened the door to the discussion; a challenge so to speak in that people do not understand what Catholics need to do. I in turn challenged that thinking wondering if Catholics actually believe (based on the theology their faith is founded on) what they actually individually need to do? I am of the opinion that if a religious group is going to claim something, then they will need to back it up in the very source (the Bible) where they supposedly based their theology from in the first place. So unless the Bible isn't a reliable source for Catholics too, then I guess we are just looking at this from different perspectives.

So what happens if a Catholic cannot attend mass for some length of time? Do they go to hell for that--- even if the circumstances for their absence is out of their control? I don't think even you believe that to be the case do you?

I guess I just find it ironic really that the differences between Catholics and Protestants are often more pronounced than the differences between Christians and Jews. And that being said I would refer you to 1st Corinthians 11 if you want to read about what the symbolism of the bread and wine represent. Key words "in remembrance" should not be confused with any claim that the bread and wine are in fact the same body. I guess I just find it mind boggling how Catholics get that so wrong when it so simply detailed in the scriptures as representing an act of memorializing the sacrifice---not redoing the sacrifice again and again.

What I find ironic is that so many Christians focus on the differences between denominations than on what unites us.

Not all denominations are Sola Scriptura. I was reared High-Church Anglican and am not either.

As for the "remembrance," Christ said, "This is my body," not "This symbolizes my body."
 
Others seem to feel it is not possible to practice catholicism without going to church. Her story, like many others, shows it is.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

If u ever study. The Old testament u will see (especially Douay Rueims version) how God set up the Church...which in the beginning was called the house of God: Exodus, Leviticus... Chronicles...). God's presence was in this house of God and King David prayed that people's prayers would be heard there and God agreed...which is not to say God cannot hear our prayers outside the Church...etc...etc

But somehow God chose to be in this house made by king David and some of us today believe (Kno) we should be there every Sunday
 
If I were the last person on earth, I could still worship God...don't need a building, don't need a Bible, don't need anything...there is nothing that can stop me from worshiping my God...
 
That’s because others don’t share the same belief as your mother. Others beliefs and customs are not bound by what one person thought and is comfortable with. It’s not logical.

Good point
 
No offense friend, but I find in curious that within the context of a theological debate that you would cite as a source the Encyclopedia Britanica rather than any specific scripture.



Okay, a little better, but where in the Gospels do Catholics get "do this in remembrance of me"-- (in remembrance of the sacrifice Christ was foretelling during the last supper (Passover meal) into some mystical ceremony where the bread and wine ACTUALLY becomes the body of Christ-- only to be perpetually sacrificed again, and again, and again, and again... virtually forever within a Roman Catholic church??? Where in the Gospels or in the Epistles is this magical ceremony described and/or commanded?

Fact is it isn't, and that is why I questioned the OP's contention that this "ceremony" isn't understood by other people? I would say that Protestants do understand what Catholics are claiming, but they reject that claim the same way they reject the claim by Morman's for example in their "temple ceremonies" can baptize the dead and covert the dead into Mormans. If something isn't scriptural, then it basically made up by men.

Think of "do this in remembrance of me" within the context of the Passover meal (last supper) where Jews come together and eat certain foods and contemplate their deliverance from bondage in Egypt. It is to remember with a solemn heart and mind what God provides for them. So when Jesus said that during the Passover it was to establish a new sacrament for his followers. It was so they would remember the blood and body sacrifice which was done ON THE CROSS--- not at that table.

I just find it curious that Catholics don't understand so much about the things they are being told they must do.

You are too sure of yourself for someone who obviously does not understand Catholicism. Study it and then you will understand so as to discuss bit w Catholics

That's what the once virulently anti Catholic Scott Hahn did
 
If I were the last person on earth, I could still worship God...don't need a building, don't need a Bible, don't need anything...there is nothing that can stop me from worshiping my God...

Yes there is.... the condition of your soul which only Jesus knows the depths of.. and only those who. Spend time with him in his Church are known by Jesus this way....very important bc in one psg Jesus rejects souls attempting to enter Heaven, saying

Depart from me, I never knew you

Interesting...he doesn't say You never knew me but i never knew you....
 
Baptized, first holy communion and catholic school for me for ten years. I personally don't believe there is a god but to each their own as long as you don't try to impose your religious beliefs on my rights.

I was also taught the same thing, god is everywhere and is all knowing, all loving and all caring and don't mess with him or else you're going to hell. And definitely don't mess with the nuns. I'm pretty sure they've left more of an impression on me than anything about religion they did their best to teach me.
 
Yes there is.... the condition of your soul which only Jesus knows the depths of.. and only those who. Spend time with him in his Church are known by Jesus this way....very important bc in one psg Jesus rejects souls attempting to enter Heaven, saying

Depart from me, I never knew you

Interesting...he doesn't say You never knew me but i never knew you....

Chapter and verse on that one...you ain't got one...:roll:
 
Where in the Gospels or in the Epistles is this magical ceremony described and/or commanded?

The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. - John 6:52-57
 
Baptized, first holy communion and catholic school for me for ten years. I personally don't believe there is a god but to each their own as long as you don't try to impose your religious beliefs on my rights.

I was also taught the same thing, god is everywhere and is all knowing, all loving and all caring and don't mess with him or else you're going to hell. And definitely don't mess with the nuns. I'm pretty sure they've left more of an impression on me than anything about religion they did their best to teach me.

If u have ever been to the ocean

Or ...say..Highway 90 in the pristine mountains around Missoula, MT...

Or watched a child learn to walk...

And still don't believe in God

I feel deeply sorry for you
 
The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. - John 6:52-57

Thanks...y didn't I think to print out that psg? Sigh....too busy hating on the Dem....oh nevermind
 
What I find ironic is that so many Christians focus on the differences between denominations than on what unites us.

Not all denominations are Sola Scriptura. I was reared High-Church Anglican and am not either.

Yeah, I get that. But once you just start adding stuff without any means to test it's authenticity, then how is that different than the Mormons, or even the Muslims? At some point if enough man made stuff is added, don't you risk it not even being Christian?


As for the "remembrance," Christ said, "This is my body," not "This symbolizes my body."

Go back and consider the context of the last supper. They were Jews gathered together for Passover--- a Seder meal. The traditional foods during a Jewish Seder incorporate many symbolisms to commemorate the Jewish Exodus from Egyptian bondage. There are bitter herbs to represent the bitterness of slavery, the egg symbolizes new life, 'haroset' (apple / nut sauce) the mortar for the bricks the Jewish slave were forced to make; matzah the unleavened bread representing the bread that had no time to rise when the Jews left for the Exodus; the four cups of wine which are drunk during the Seder which have several different symbolism's one being redemption; there is a cup of salt water to represent the tears of the Jews during bondage. And then lets not forget the shank bone, while actually not eaten because it is burned, it represented the ritual lamb sacrifice which would have been made on the first evening of the first Passover.

So already lots of symbolism was going on during the last supper. And when Jesus added the symbolic reference to his blood and body it marked the new covenant for the Jews--- which were then the first Christians. It was a symbolism IN REMEMBRANCE of the blood and body he was about to sacrifice. Why anyone would believe that when he said, "this is my body.." to mean his actual body--- any more than the other symbolic foods at that Seder were the actual tears, or the actual lamb sacrifice from the first Passover is beyond reason to me.

The substitutionary sacrifice was done on the cross, not at the Last Supper. When Jesus said "consummatum est" (tetelestai in Greek), it literally meant "it is finished" which in common usage was a saying that meant "paid in full"-- or the payment is complete, all debts are now cleared. That did not happen at the Last Supper, and it certainly does not happen over and over and over again at a Roman Catholic Eucharist. There is no scriptural basis to compare the symbolic "this is my body" to the actual sacrifice during the crucifixion.

The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. - John 6:52-57

The use of the language is symbolic, not actual. The bread and wine is not actually made into his flesh and blood. There is no mystical transformation of the matter of bread and wine to flesh in blood, it is only symbolic, it is ONLY to commemorate the sacrifice of the Christ.

When Paul speaks to the Christians in Rome about becoming "grafted in" to the vine, is he speaking literally or symbolically? Were gentiles actually grafted in by some mystical horticultural action into the "vine" which was part of the covenant of Abraham, or was it symbolic?
 
You are too sure of yourself for someone who obviously does not understand Catholicism. Study it and then you will understand so as to discuss bit w Catholics

That's what the once virulently anti Catholic Scott Hahn did

I understand enough of Catholicism to know it largely is NOT based on the Christian texts. There is a long list of things Catholics claim which are not found anywhere in the scriptures. From penance, to purgatory, to indulgences, to Pope head of Church, transubstantiation (as already mentioned), to intercession by dead people (aka: saints).

All just made up stuff.
 
But they can adapt temporarily to restrictions for the greater good. People have to do it all the time. It isnt that difficult. People make it difficult from their stubbornness.

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Just because people temporary adapt in other circumstances is not justification to infringe upon their right to practice their religion. Especially when there the accepted data doesn’t support the action. People are scared and think that justifies anything. And that’s exactly when the worst atrocities happen.
 
If u have ever been to the ocean

Or ...say..Highway 90 in the pristine mountains around Missoula, MT...

Or watched a child learn to walk...

And still don't believe in God

I feel deeply sorry for you

Why? Because I don't believe what you do? That seems rather foolish to me.
 
Perhaps what you call "stubbornness" is a determination to be independent and make choices for oneself rather than being told what to do.

I chose to begin self-isolating on 3-11 and except for keeping long-scheduled medical appointments and a once-a-week trip to the grocery store, I still am.
A determination taking place within a society they agreed to live in, which will include measures taken for the health and welfare of the community at times. When your choices affect the health of others, it does matter.

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A determination taking place within a society they agreed to live in, which will include measures taken for the health and welfare of the community at times. When your choices affect the health of others, it does matter.

Yes, it does. But this isn't all that matters.
 
The use of the language is symbolic, not actual. The bread and wine is not actually made into his flesh and blood. There is no mystical transformation of the matter of bread and wine to flesh in blood, it is only symbolic, it is ONLY to commemorate the sacrifice of the Christ.

What would Jesus have needed to say for you to accept that He really meant that we had to eat His flesh and drink His blood?

When Paul speaks to the Christians in Rome about becoming "grafted in" to the vine, is he speaking literally or symbolically? Were gentiles actually grafted in by some mystical horticultural action into the "vine" which was part of the covenant of Abraham, or was it symbolic?

Was there an actual vine that he could have been referncing?
 
Yes, they can watch Mass on ewtn, assuming they have cable. Some cannot afford or don't have cable...which btw, a reminder: lockdowns hurt the poor more than anyone

Catholics say the actual, tangible Presence of Christ abides in their churches 24/7 (except on Good Friday)

I cannot find the words to explain the difference between being at Holy Mass and not...words fail..

Most governors don't know the 1st thing about Catholicism

A friend of mine is a Catholic priest. In fact, he is probably the most popular and well-liked priest in his entire state. He completely disagrees with your argument about worshiping from home during the pandemic.

This is what he wrote back in March:

"There is a big difference between being prepared and being afraid! Preparation is wise and sensible. Canceling events, yes, even Mass, is wise. We are not immune from disease and illness just because we are going to church. Canceling Mass does NOT equate to a lack of faith, but demonstrates great faith in the same God who gifted us with Wisdom, Courage, and Understanding!
To disregard and ignore the need to limit personal contact is narcissistic! This is not about your right or mine to receive the sacraments, but about our obligation to protect those who are most vulnerable, even in the most extreme way possible.
Please be mindful of the young, the old, those with weakened immune systems, and all who will have the difficult task of caring for those affected. Pray for our community, and for the whole world. Yes, we will get through this, and hopefully with reason to smile and laugh. But, first... we must courageously be prepared!
I am not afraid, but I am prepared to protect everyone around me in every way possible!
Please keep us updated on your health and that of your loved ones. We will do our best to care for your needs."
 
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A friend of mine is a Catholic priest. In fact, he is probably the most popular and well-liked priest in his entire state. He completely disagrees with your argument about worshiping from home during the pandemic.

A friend of mine is a priest and agrees with me.

You realize what a dumb argument this is, right?
 
A friend of mine is a priest and agrees with me.

You realize what a dumb argument this is, right?

My point is, his own Church, including his pope, doesn't agree with his argument. It's irrelevant anyway. When there is a high risk to public health, officials are charged with doing everything reasonably possible to mitigate that risk. A virus does not take into account your personal religious beliefs.
 

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