Why are you supporting Obama?

[ReverendHellh0und]

Did it hurt revenue in the 90s? Of course not. Why, because for a tax increase to actually reduce revenue it has to be so high as to provide a disincentive to production. Thats economics 101 there.

If Obama was talking about raising taxes on the top bracket to some never before seen level, you would have a point. However, with him just talking about returning to 90s levels on the top bracket, we will indeed see an increase in revenue just we did back in the Clinton years.

Fairness has nothing to do with this. Its simply an issue of pragmatism. We are not raising enough revenue to meet the fiscal obligations we have placed in the public sector. Thus we need to raise more money or cut spending. If we are going to raise more revenue, then we should do so from the group that which a tax increase would have smallest economic impact on, that would be the top bracket.

I am going by what the man said. all this otherstuff you all are arguing is not the point.

The poing is he is willing to monkey around with peoples money by raising rates on certain tax brackets for the sake of "fairness" even if it means lowering revenue to the government.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

As to why I support Obama:

1. He is more pragmatic than ideological (the same used to be able to be said about McCain, but not since he has had to appease the far right).

I think he is one of the most "ideological" people who has ever ran.

2. He is a civil libertarian.

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

What is his stance on the 2nd amendment?

3. He is strong on environmental issues.

I'll give you this. what specific policies on the enviorment do you like?

4. He is not such a hawk.

Right, he is an apeaser.

We need a clear departure from the failed policies on the Bush Administration. Obama represents that clear departure. Its as simple as that.

How other than the same old class/race warfare tax and spend failed liberal policies. What differentiates him from say Jimmy Carter?

 

[Redress]

That is not the argument. The argument was that if true he still would tax the rich and lower gov revenue for the sake of "fairness"....

This makes no sense. If some imaginary scenario exists, he might do something within that imaginary scenario that you disagree with.......

 

[Navy Pride]

OK, how about the small mom and pop diners?

Why do you think they are poor?

 

[Redress]

Why do you think they are poor?

There are two here in town that the owners are definatly middle class.

 

[Thorgasm]

Why do you think they are poor?

I see how they live. I see their diners close up shop.

 

[Navy Pride]

There are two here in town that the owners are definatly middle class.

Thank you for making my point.........They are not poor........I stand by my statement poor people do not hire anyone........I see Independent Thinker gave you a thanks..........What is that about? I am going to give you one to...........

 

[Navy Pride]

I see how they live. I see their diners close up shop.

If they have a restaurant or a Mom and Pop store they are not poor.......They are at least middle class..........

Try again..........:roll:

 

[Thorgasm]

Thank you for making my point.........They are not poor........I stand by my statement poor people do not hire anyone........I see Independent Thinker gave you a thanks..........What is that about? I am going to give you one to...........

The middle class is shrinking. They are feeling the pain of high gas prices and how they affect our economy.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

This makes no sense. If some imaginary scenario exists, he might do something within that imaginary scenario that you disagree with.......

no you are choosing to ignore reality for the dog and pony show that is obama. the failure for critical thinking on this man is astounding from the left.

 

[Navy Pride]

The middle class is shrinking. They are feeling the pain of high gas prices and how they affect our economy.

The middle class is still not the poor.........I am part of that middle class and although I hate high gas prices I can still buy gas..........The people that suffer are the poor............

Oh by the way as part of the middle class your right we are shrinking.......I have lost 20 lbs since the first of the year..........

 

[Thorgasm]

The middle class is still not the poor.........I am part of that middle class and although I hate high gas prices I can still buy gas..........The people that suffer are the poor............

Oh by the way as part of the middle class your right we are shrinking.......I have lost 20 lbs since the first of the year..........

Congrats on the weight loss!

It's hard to eat with your foot in your mouth isn't it? :mrgreen:

Or did you switch to Diet Kool-Aid? :2razz:

(I kid ya. Good job!)

 

[obvious Child]

The middle class is still not the poor.

That's why they call it the middle class. However, merely because you are not poor does not equate to you not having problems. There was a this retailer back in the 80s who had huge revenues. They went under despite having lots of cash because their payments to suppliers were so tight that any disturbance in revenue collections would result in bankruptcy. This is more or less where the American middle class is going. Sure they aren't necessarily poor, but their inflows and outflows are dangerously tight that a few problems and they go under. More then a few super wealthy have gotten screwed by this problem as well.

he people that suffer are the poor.

Explain to me how someone who is in the middle class yet is balancing several credit cards, has a mortgage, along with various other costs isn't suffering when these costs are rising without a similar rise in pay. The entire middle class for several decades has been in a rut due to stagnating real wages while their costs steadily increase.

Oh by the way as part of the middle class your right we are shrinking

FactCheck.org: Update on Kerry's "Shrinking Middle Class" -- Still Shrinking in 2003

 

[Redress]

no you are choosing to ignore reality for the dog and pony show that is obama. the failure for critical thinking on this man is astounding from the left.

You are speaking from ignorance. I am not an Obama person. I prefer him to the Gerry Ford of 2008, John McCain, but not a lot. I will have to vote for him while holding my nose. I have been incredibly critical of him.

With all that said, this whole thing you refer to is nothing. You have no evidence that it would lower revenue, which makes it an imaginary scenario. So you are getting upset, and using this scenario that does not exist in the real world as a reason to criticize Obama.

And you accuse me of not thinking critically..........

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

You are speaking from ignorance. I am not an Obama person. I prefer him to the Gerry Ford of 2008, John McCain, but not a lot. I will have to vote for him while holding my nose. I have been incredibly critical of him.

please provide links. Thank you.

With all that said, this whole thing you refer to is nothing. You have no evidence that it would lower revenue, which makes it an imaginary scenario. So you are getting upset, and using this scenario that does not exist in the real world as a reason to criticize Obama.

It is nothing that the man is willing to hurt the revenue collected by the fedgov in order to force "wealthy" people to pay more for the sake of "fairness"?


I youtubed saying he is indeed willing to do that. the specifics of how are irrellevant given he has stated his ideal.

And you accuse me of not thinking critically..........

Are you "the left"?

either way, on this you are not. you are attempting like other to defend the man by throwing up other irrellevant points ignoring the fact the man stated he would be more than willing to hurt both the revenue and the rich for the sake of "fairness"

 

[Redress]

please provide links. Thank you.

Easily done, in fact, you could have done it in a couple minutes.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-elections/31231-obama-cult.html See post 9

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-elections/30387-obama-reveals-true-elitist-self.html see post 21, and more in this thread

There are a number more, feel free to go digging.

It is nothing that the man is willing to hurt the revenue collected by the fedgov in order to force "wealthy" people to pay more for the sake of "fairness"?


I youtubed saying he is indeed willing to do that. the specifics of how are irrellevant given he has stated his ideal.

You are still getting all upset about something that is not relevant to the real world.

Are you "the left"?

either way, on this you are not. you are attempting like other to defend the man by throwing up other irrellevant points ignoring the fact the man stated he would be more than willing to hurt both the revenue and the rich for the sake of "fairness"

I am a part of "the left". I am also pointing out the problem with what you are getting all upset about. If you think it is relevant, show how it will actually reduce revenue. Thank you.

 

[disneydude]

I support Obama for a number of reasons:

1. He represents the best hope that we have for an end to the mess that GWB and his administration created in Iraq. Obama wants to end the conflict there. McCain has indicated that he will carry on with the same failed policies of GWB into the indefinite future.

2. The economy. Obama is our best hope to address the wreck of an economy that GWB will pass along to him. McCain represents the same failed policies of the GOP. He wants to continue the entitlement of Corporate Welfare that benefits the wealthiest Americans. Obama will end these corporate handouts.

3. Social Policy. This is a clear cut no brainer. If you want Big Government involved in the most intimate concerns of your daily life, vote for McCain. McCain will continue in the same vein as GWB expanding the powers of government over private and personal matters. Obama believes in the freedoms of personal choice.

4. Politics as usual v. Hope for something better.

The bottom line - In this election the choice will be patently clear. Do you want to elect a lifetime politician that will continue to do things pretty much the same way that they have been done the last 7 1/2 years or Do you want to vote for someone that at least represents the hope that we can do things better. This election vote your brain.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Easily done, in fact, you could have done it in a couple minutes.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-elections/31231-obama-cult.html See post 9

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-elections/30387-obama-reveals-true-elitist-self.html see post 21, and more in this thread

There are a number more, feel free to go digging.

Very nice. I get acussed of ignoring obama for anything other than the wright issue even when i link them to the 5 obama issue threads I have started and they have ignored.

You sir are an exception. (though I should have seen that with your nose holding comment)

BTW as a leftist why do you "hold your nose" regarding obama?


I as a conservative libertarian could not "hold my nose" for mccain.

You are still getting all upset about something that is not relevant to the real world.

Not upset. Just would like an honest response to what the man has actually stated. No one otherthan IT saying he supports that sort of lunacy has responded to it.

I am a part of "the left". I am also pointing out the problem with what you are getting all upset about. If you think it is relevant, show how it will actually reduce revenue. Thank you.

You are missing the point. Whether it does or not is irrellevant. He stated even if it did he would still do it for the sake of "Fairness". I see nothing "Fair" or even logical about it and I would like for once for obama supporters to adress this.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

I support Obama for a number of reasons:

1. He represents the best hope that we have for an end to the mess that GWB and his administration created in Iraq. Obama wants to end the conflict there. McCain has indicated that he will carry on with the same failed policies of GWB into the indefinite future.

2. The economy. Obama is our best hope to address the wreck of an economy that GWB will pass along to him. McCain represents the same failed policies of the GOP. He wants to continue the entitlement of Corporate Welfare that benefits the wealthiest Americans. Obama will end these corporate handouts.

3. Social Policy. This is a clear cut no brainer. If you want Big Government involved in the most intimate concerns of your daily life, vote for McCain. McCain will continue in the same vein as GWB expanding the powers of government over private and personal matters. Obama believes in the freedoms of personal choice.

4. Politics as usual v. Hope for something better.

The bottom line - In this election the choice will be patently clear. Do you want to elect a lifetime politician that will continue to do things pretty much the same way that they have been done the last 7 1/2 years or Do you want to vote for someone that at least represents the hope that we can do things better. This election vote your brain.

You have said absolutley nothing here other than "obama will change, McCain will stay the same".....

Vapid.

 

[disneydude]

You have said absolutley nothing here other than "obama will change, McCain will stay the same".....

Vapid.

Which is exactly why I would support Obama. Given the choice.....continue in the same failed direction that GWB has taken this country or change course.....the answer should be obvious. However, there are some people who are so afraid of and resistant to change that they would rather continue driving the same old car down the same old road.....even when its clear that the pavement has ended.

 

[Redress]

BTW as a leftist why do you "hold your nose" regarding obama?

I think he has a lot of growing to do in terms of racial issues. Comments like "typical white person" show a problem here.

I am still angered about his insults of a whole segment of the populace with the "bitter" comment.

I think he would do a better job as president with more time in the senate.

I think his "change" mantra is overdone.

With all that said, I think he is a ton better than McCain.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Which is exactly why I would support Obama. Given the choice.....continue in the same failed direction that GWB has taken this country or change course.....the answer should be obvious. However, there are some people who are so afraid of and resistant to change that they would rather continue driving the same old car down the same old road.....even when its clear that the pavement has ended.

SO you admit then you no little about obama except that he represents an "unkown change"

btw did you hear what ahmanonajihad said today?? Yo know the guy in iran Obama would talk to unconditionally?

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

I think he has a lot of growing to do in terms of racial issues. Comments like "typical white person" show a problem here.

I am still angered about his insults of a whole segment of the populace with the "bitter" comment.

I think he would do a better job as president with more time in the senate.

I think his "change" mantra is overdone.

With all that said, I think he is a ton better than McCain.

What is the difference to you between the two?


What opinion will you hold when obama changes his mind on withdrawal?

 

[disneydude]

SO you admit then you no little about obama except that he represents an "unkown change"

btw did you hear what ahmanonajihad said today?? Yo know the guy in iran Obama would talk to unconditionally?

First of all, do your homework. Obama never said he would meet with Ahmandiajad....he said that he would meet with the leaders of Iran.....kinda like how we meet with leaders of North Korea and other countries in a hope to reach diplomacy (like Israel is negotiating with Syria).....its called "diplomacy" and every President (except for GWB) believes it is vital to our national security.

Second.....I know a lot about Obama....and if you go back and read the post that brought forth your allegations....you would see that I cited specific things that he and McCain differ on:

Economic: McCain wants to continue the Bush tax cuts that benefit the wealthy and wants to continue Corporate handouts. Obama has said that he will eliminate the Bush handouts.

Social: McCain wants to expand Big Government into private matters such as reproductive freedom and expansion of the so called "Patriot" act. Obama favors keeping the government out of your bedroom

Iraq: Obama wants to end the conflict there. McCain wants to continue it indefinitely.

I don't know how I can be more specific for you.

 

[disneydude]

What is the difference to you between the two?


What opinion will you hold when obama changes his mind on withdrawal?

Whats the difference to you? Oh....and be specific.