robert mccoin
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- Jul 31, 2005
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- Very Conservative
robert mccoin said:The attack on the ten comandments is just another example of how anything representative of God is under the blitz of the A C L U and many of those that support it.Don't get me wrong,I feel that the A C L U is an important orginization, and is a potential force of good, but I think it has gone astray with it's obvious attacks on the cross and the ten comandments
YamiB. said:I assume you're talking about the court displays of the Ten Commandments? How is it correct to have something that says you must worship the Abrahamic god on the building of a government that is supposed to support religious freedom for it's citizens? Maybe liberals keep going up against Christian in these fights is because some Christians feel that they deserve special treatment compared to the other religions.
cnredd said:You're not making the connection that some people perceive this simply as "art".
You would accept a paper airplane as art...why not 2 ton rock with words on it that took months to be chiseled? Are you afraid of words?
YamiB. said:I'm afraid of people trying to push their religion above all others and destroy the freedom of religion in the country by first destroying the separation of Church and State. It's not right for the government to be telling people to worship the Abrahamic god, even if they're not enforcing it.
cnredd said:Thats a pretty bold statement...can you back that up with some official US document where it says anything about "separation of Church and State"?
And please...nobody do it for YamiB...She's old enough to find her own sources...
jallman said:GO GALEN!!!
I am in total agreement with that last post. I am Catholic but I am also extremely liberal in regards to social issues. I just can't stand the idea that evangelists legislate from the pulpit because we have a right wing government in power who take their Sunday sermons and use them as a basis for making public policy. It's idiocy.
You have a diverse culture in America consisting of many different religions. Yet, every time I turn on the news, all you ever hear is the whining of the "poor persecuted Christian" who cant force his prayers down the throats of the Jews and Muslims and (Oh MY GOD, YOU CNAT SERIOUSLY THINK THEY HAVE RIGHT!) the Atheist during a school assembly. And wow, since I think maybe displaying an artisic depiction of Hammurabi's Code would be more acceptable than displaying The Ten Commandments at a government building, then I obviously hate God and other Christians. Guess I'll have to keep that in mind when I go to take the Sacrament this week...
YamiB. said:I guess Hamurabi's code would be slightly iffy as it was supposed to be divinely inspired as well. I don't know all the laws in it, but as long as it doesn't have anything related to worshiping whatever god I guess it would be fine. It would make more sense for the historical aspect that people always try to push for the Ten Commandments as it's one of the first known law codes.
jallman said:I can totally see that point. Hamurabi's Code was an alternative I just kind of threw out there. Don't quote me on this but I was under the impression it was the first code of law we had record of, but (as is often the case) I could be wrong about that. Personally I have nothing against seeing the Ten Commandments in a goverment building but all the other points I made about "legislating from the pulpit" still just burn me up.
jallman said:GO GALEN!!!
I am in total agreement with that last post. I am Catholic but I am also extremely liberal in regards to social issues. I just can't stand the idea that evangelists legislate from the pulpit because we have a right wing government in power who take their Sunday sermons and use them as a basis for making public policy. It's idiocy.
You have a diverse culture in America consisting of many different religions. Yet, every time I turn on the news, all you ever hear is the whining of the "poor persecuted Christian" who cant force his prayers down the throats of the Jews and Muslims and (Oh MY GOD, YOU CNAT SERIOUSLY THINK THEY HAVE RIGHT!) the Atheist during a school assembly. And wow, since I think maybe displaying an artisic depiction of Hammurabi's Code would be more acceptable than displaying The Ten Commandments at a government building, then I obviously hate God and other Christians. Guess I'll have to keep that in mind when I go to take the Sacrament this week...
cnredd said:You're not making the connection that some people perceive this simply as "art".
You would accept a paper airplane as art...why not 2 ton rock with words on it that took months to be chiseled? Are you afraid of words?
In God We Trust was added to currency during the 1900s I believe. I can't remember the date, but the Ten Commandments section on Supreme Court was added during a more recent renovation.KevinWan said:The founding fathers DIDNT intent for religion to be completely blotted out from legislation and policy making. If they did, then why did they establish a prayer (that ended in AMEN mind you) at the beginning of every congressional session, why did they put IN GOD WE TRUST on US currency, and why in the world would they display the TEN COMMANDMENTS in the Supreme Court building??? hmmm....
The seperation of church and state set by the founders only asks that the government not establish a state religion, and FORCE people to pray, worship etc. a certain religion. When saying the pledge of allegiance, etc. its entirely voluntary. One's religion and faith SHOULD indeed, have influence over their legislation. Their personalities and ideaologies influence their policies, and is religion not part of both of those entities? I think they are, and so therefore why not use religion as a basis to INFLUENCE one's vote??
Christianity has influenced all of western society. The 10 commandments is the basis for that. IF not, then why do western societies including the US reject MURDER, STEALING, ADULTERY??? (Many southern states still have laws on the books illegalizing adultery) BECAUSE CHRISTIANITY says so.
The anger over liberals is not the fact that they support seperation of church and state, but rather the fact that they seek to transform our society into something its not, a non-Christian society. Face it, Christianity is the basis for all of our lifestyles, whether your christian or not, if you live in a Western country.
KevinWan said:The founding fathers DIDNT intent for religion to be completely blotted out from legislation and policy making. If they did, then why did they establish a prayer (that ended in AMEN mind you) at the beginning of every congressional session, why did they put IN GOD WE TRUST on US currency, and why in the world would they display the TEN COMMANDMENTS in the Supreme Court building??? hmmm....
The seperation of church and state set by the founders only asks that the government not establish a state religion, and FORCE people to pray, worship etc. a certain religion. When saying the pledge of allegiance, etc. its entirely voluntary. One's religion and faith SHOULD indeed, have influence over their legislation. Their personalities and ideaologies influence their policies, and is religion not part of both of those entities? I think they are, and so therefore why not use religion as a basis to INFLUENCE one's vote??
Christianity has influenced all of western society. The 10 commandments is the basis for that. IF not, then why do western societies including the US reject MURDER, STEALING, ADULTERY??? (Many southern states still have laws on the books illegalizing adultery) BECAUSE CHRISTIANITY says so.
The anger over liberals is not the fact that they support seperation of church and state, but rather the fact that they seek to transform our society into something its not, a non-Christian society. Face it, Christianity is the basis for all of our lifestyles, whether your christian or not, if you live in a Western country.
YamiB. said:If they were the basis how would we have freedom of religion as that contradicts the first commandment?From what I've seen most of our government is based on ideas of philosophers from the Age of Reason (think that's the common title.) Possibly drawing on some older things such as the Greek and Roman governments.
Aaron said:First off freedom of religion in no way breaks the first comandment. Freedom of religion basically tolerates all other religions. True our government was inspired by a philosipher but still the religion of our founding fathers(christianity) effected the way our laws were made. If you are interested in who that philosopher was it was John lock who believed that a baby was born with a blank mind and that babys developed through it's surroundings. Also if you look into the declaration you'll find a few words written saying "All men are created equal under god." Now that is something that you can't say was added to the declaration on some later date. So yes christianity did have some role in the creation of our country.:smile: :mrgreen:
Aaron said:First off freedom of religion in no way breaks the first comandment. Freedom of religion basically tolerates all other religions. True our government was inspired by a philosipher but still the religion of our founding fathers(christianity) effected the way our laws were made. If you are interested in who that philosopher was it was John lock who believed that a baby was born with a blank mind and that babys developed through it's surroundings. Also if you look into the declaration you'll find a few words written saying "All men are created equal under god." Now that is something that you can't say was added to the declaration on some later date. So yes christianity did have some role in the creation of our country.:smile: :mrgreen:
V.I. Lenin said:Would you mind if I put the almighty statue of Satan in a court with the sins of Satanism? I mean, their is no offical legislation seperating church and state that is. Oh and can we put a picture of some famous Muslim clerics in the library?
V.I. Lenin said:Alright, no argument here :mrgreen:
But why must the 10 commandments be in a court. Why can't all the rules for all the religions be displayed in public? And I mean all
YamiB. said:It says Nature's God in the Declaration, which would fit more with Deism than Christianity. Some of the founding fathers were deist.
How does freedom of religion not break the first commandment? One says that you can belong to any religion; the other says you must worship the Abrahamic god.
Edit - Our government was not influenced by just one philosopher. Yes, John Locke was one of them, but there were others.
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