Why are some liberals ashamed of being liberals?

[Martin_Kaine]

Hello, I am new to this board. In the profile set up there is an option to select your political lean. I like that option. It let's me know who I am talking to and gives me a chance to let others see my general political leanings at a glance. I am not a perfect libertarian and I am not a member of the Libertarian party. I am an independent, but libertarian is close enough to sum up the jist of me politically. I am a more freedom less government kind of guy.

I have noticed that other libertarians post their lean publicly, as well as conservatives, very-conservatives, centrists, etc, basically everyone but a handful of liberals. In the past few days I have read the posts of several people who are obviously liberal, but I had to read several of their posts to know it? Why? What are you hiding from? If you choose to be a liberal, why be ashamed of it? If you are ashamed of being liberal, don't be a liberal.

Also, some of you guys calling yourselves centrists, uh yea, not so much. :lol:

Now before someone, a liberal, starts whining about how "Is this the most important issue....." or "You are teh fostering of division...." blah blah blah, no, this is not important to me at all. I'm new and I am curious. I made an observation and I am asking a question.

 

[Partisan]

Hello, I am new to this board. In the profile set up there is an option to select your political lean. I like that option. It let's me know who I am talking to and gives me a chance to let others see my general political leanings at a glance. I am not a perfect libertarian and I am not a member of the Libertarian party. I am an independent, but libertarian is close enough to sum up the jist of me politically. I am a more freedom less government kind of guy.

I have noticed that other libertarians post their lean publicly, as well as conservatives, very-conservatives, centrists, etc, basically everyone but a handful of liberals. In the past few days I have read the posts of several people who are obviously liberal, but I had to read several of their posts to know it? Why? What are you hiding from? If you choose to be a liberal, why be ashamed of it? If you are ashamed of being liberal, don't be a liberal.

Also, some of you guys calling yourselves centrists, uh yea, not so much. :lol:

Now before someone, a liberal, starts whining about how "Is this the most important issue....." or "You are teh fostering of division...." blah blah blah, no, this is not important to me at all. I'm new and I am curious. I made an observation and I am asking a question.

Because being a liberal is shameful, especially if you're over 30......

 

[Redress]

I think you notice it since you are not liberal, as I notice more the conservatives with a independent or centrist tag. The tag is trivial though, and I don't think many people here are perfectly identified by any tag, as you say you are not.

 

[molten_dragon]

I'm not sure it's that people are ashamed of putting their true feelings out there, I think it's just that people tend to see themselves differently than others see them. It would be interesting to see how everyone else around here would label you.

 

[PeteEU]

One might ask the same of some conservatives or as they like being called.. libertarian's

 

[Martin_Kaine]

One might ask the same of some conservatives or as they like being called.. libertarian's

Yes, one might ask that, but this one didn't. The only difference between a conservative and a libertarian is the libertarian is less socially conservative. Otherwise they are the same. Besides, at least they picked something on the right, since they are on the right. It's not like they left it blank or pretended to be a centrist.

 

[The Prof]

Hello, I am new to this board. In the profile set up there is an option to select your political lean. I like that option. It let's me know who I am talking to and gives me a chance to let others see my general political leanings at a glance. I am not a perfect libertarian and I am not a member of the Libertarian party. I am an independent, but libertarian is close enough to sum up the jist of me politically. I am a more freedom less government kind of guy.

I have noticed that other libertarians post their lean publicly, as well as conservatives, very-conservatives, centrists, etc, basically everyone but a handful of liberals. In the past few days I have read the posts of several people who are obviously liberal, but I had to read several of their posts to know it? Why? What are you hiding from? If you choose to be a liberal, why be ashamed of it? If you are ashamed of being liberal, don't be a liberal.

Also, some of you guys calling yourselves centrists, uh yea, not so much. :lol:

Now before someone, a liberal, starts whining about how "Is this the most important issue....." or "You are teh fostering of division...." blah blah blah, no, this is not important to me at all. I'm new and I am curious. I made an observation and I am asking a question.

hi, mr kaine, nice to meet you

your observation is spot on

the answer to your question is the same nationally

that is, at the national level they run away from the dreaded L-word, as well

many prefer the appellation, progressive

it's cuz liberalism is too widely labeled a loser

conservatives are generally proud to embrace and represent

what's funny is you'll see obama all thru 2010 trying to convince americans that he's suddenly a fiscal conservative

LOL!

The L-Word

according to cbs, in 7 republican debates the word "conservative" was used 100 times

in 7 dem debates, "liberal" was uttered only 4 times, none by candidates

Even Ascendant, Dems Wary Of 'liberal' Label - CBS News

candidates characteristically duck

 

[ScottD]

Yes, one might ask that, but this one didn't. The only difference between a conservative and a libertarian is the libertarian is less socially conservative. Otherwise they are the same. Besides, at least they picked something on the right, since they are on the right. It's not like they left it blank or pretended to be a centrist.

Libertarians and Conservatives also differ quite a bit on Foreign policy.

Sorry, just something people tend to forget.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Libertarians and Conservatives also differ quite a bit on Foreign policy.

Sorry, just something people tend to forget.

that doesn't keep them from being conservatives.

 

[ScottD]

that doesn't keep them from being conservatives.

If you were to only have a 1 Dimensional spectrum for politics, like most TV pundits actually spout, then yes, Libertarians are conservatives. But that isn't the case in the real world. There are many ends to the actual political spectrum, including: Liberal, Conservative, Fascist, Socialist, Anarchist, Libertarian, Totalitarian, etc.

 

[Priest]

Hello, I am new to this board. In the profile set up there is an option to select your political lean. I like that option. It let's me know who I am talking to and gives me a chance to let others see my general political leanings at a glance. I am not a perfect libertarian and I am not a member of the Libertarian party. I am an independent, but libertarian is close enough to sum up the jist of me politically. I am a more freedom less government kind of guy.

I have noticed that other libertarians post their lean publicly, as well as conservatives, very-conservatives, centrists, etc, basically everyone but a handful of liberals. In the past few days I have read the posts of several people who are obviously liberal, but I had to read several of their posts to know it? Why? What are you hiding from? If you choose to be a liberal, why be ashamed of it? If you are ashamed of being liberal, don't be a liberal.

Also, some of you guys calling yourselves centrists, uh yea, not so much. :lol:

Now before someone, a liberal, starts whining about how "Is this the most important issue....." or "You are teh fostering of division...." blah blah blah, no, this is not important to me at all. I'm new and I am curious. I made an observation and I am asking a question.

I don't know why liberals would not say they're liberal. I don't say what I am because I really have no idea what I am. Some conservatives would label me liberal and some liberals would label me conservative.

I believe in smaller government. I think spending is out of control, the government is in a danger-zone of debt, but don't believe I can complain about it's size while I enjoy so many of it's services--roads, bridges, water, education, military, food from subsidized farms, etc...

I think Republicans are wrong on a some social issues and right on others. I'm pro gay marriage and anti abortion, yet semi pro choice in certain instances. I think Democrats have their priorities in reverse. I believe we need roads and water before we can get to the hospital and be clean (physical infrastructure and security should come as a priority over social welfare).

I guess I just think instead of us being so worried about which team we're all on, we should be realizing we're all playing for Team USA.

 

[Thorgasm]

Moderator's Warning:

Liberal mod moved thread to Partisan Politics.

 

[First Thought]

Moderator's Warning:

Liberal mod moved thread to Partisan Politics.

Sounds like something only a Liberal would do. I fart in your general direction! :2razz:

 

[First Thought]

I'm not sure it's that people are ashamed of putting their true feelings out there, I think it's just that people tend to see themselves differently than others see them. It would be interesting to see how everyone else around here would label you.

Spot on. A few Conservative posters here have called me a Liberal on a number of occasions.

I blame it on dyslexia...

 

[Partisan]

Spot on. A few Conservative posters here have called me a Liberal on a number of occasions.

I blame it on dyslexia...

I blame it on your position on illegal immigration.....

 

[Groucho]

that is, at the national level they run away from the dreaded L-word, as well

Yes, why alienate a large percentage of the public who are centrists and conservative when you need at least some of their votes?

Now, the conservatives, on the other hand, gladly proclaimed themselves such over and over again in the last election.

Let's see -- how well did that serve them?

 

[Groucho]

I guess I just think instead of us being so worried about which team we're all on, we should be realizing we're all playing for Team USA.

True enough. Compared to some countries, there is very little difference between the liberals and conservatives in America.

We both want the same thing -- A strong economy, a safe America -- we just have different ways of getting to the same end.

 

[Redress]

Yes, one might ask that, but this one didn't. The only difference between a conservative and a libertarian is the libertarian is less socially conservative. Otherwise they are the same. Besides, at least they picked something on the right, since they are on the right. It's not like they left it blank or pretended to be a centrist.

Even our libertarians cannot agree with what exactly libertarianism is exactly. We have had a few discussions on big "L" Libertarians vs little "l" libertarians, and so on.

That is part of the whole problem with the "lean" tag, it means different things to different people. I have been told an a number of occasions that I am more centrist than liberal, but I certainly don't think so, though I will admit to being very law and order(typically something identified with conservatives, though I think wrongly), very anti-illegal immigration amnesty, and somewhat more of a hawk than most liberals. On the other hand, I am more gay rights than most liberals. I am also a registered democrat, but I don't think it will take you long to see my talking about what I see as mistakes my party is making in legislation.

 

[PeteEU]

Yes, one might ask that, but this one didn't. The only difference between a conservative and a libertarian is the libertarian is less socially conservative. Otherwise they are the same. Besides, at least they picked something on the right, since they are on the right. It's not like they left it blank or pretended to be a centrist.

What is a liberal then? Define it.

And the difference between a conservative and a libertarian is that a libertarian is ashamed of the last decade+ of conservative politics and politicians. The use of libertarian on these boards and elsewhere only started poping up when the **** hit the fan under Bush and he became unpopular. The same happened for far left leaning parties in Europe when the USSR fell. One day they were near communists, the next day they were "green" parties.

But on the "liberal" side, it all depends on the definition.

Are moderates also liberals since they hardly agree with most conservative policies? If a moderate wants UHC is he a liberal? What if he wants a strong military too?

What about true liberals as in the true sense of the word? Someone like me. I am for UHC, free markets, rule of law and expanding personal freedoms.. am I a liberal? I am for living with-in our means? am I a liberal?

All this boils down to definition and what scale "liberal" policies are measured on by you conservatives. As I see it, anyone against standard conservative policies are "liberal" and that means the amount of policy differences available from the true liberals all the way over to communists is.. frankly huge. So saying that someone is "ashamed" with "liberal policies" when they are communist policies and you are a moderate or a true liberal or even a social democrat.. then you are really shooting far over the mark to say the least.

At least I am not shooting way over the mark when it comes to the real differences between conservatives and libertarian's.. they are the same for very few often cosmetic differences.

 

[Groucho]

Exactly; labels are easy to say but don't always apply. I mean, geez, all liberals do not agree with each other any more than all conservatives agree with each other. Just because I consider myself liberal doesn't mean I am in favor of affirmative action, for instance.

 

[Martin_Kaine]

Yes, why alienate a large percentage of the public who are centrists and conservative when you need at least some of their votes?

Now, the conservatives, on the other hand, gladly proclaimed themselves such over and over again in the last election.

Let's see -- how well did that serve them?

You are absolutely right. Obama won because he pretended to be more conservative than he is and McCain lost because he pretended to be more conservative then he is. The difference was we had seen Mccain's actions and knew he was full of **** but we didn't know Obama, so the majority of the sheeple gave him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Groucho]

You are absolutely right. Obama won because he pretended to be more conservative than he is and McCain lost because he pretended to be more conservative then he is. The difference was we had seen Mccain's actions and knew he was full of **** but we didn't know Obama, so the majority of the sheeple gave him the benefit of the doubt.

In all honesty, I think charisma and the appearance of leadership is more important than ideology for most people when they choose a President anyway.

 

[Redress]

You are absolutely right. Obama won because he pretended to be more conservative than he is and McCain lost because he pretended to be more conservative then he is. The difference was we had seen Mccain's actions and knew he was full of **** but we didn't know Obama, so the majority of the sheeple gave him the benefit of the doubt.

Ah, you are one of those, who think you are smarter than most. Unfortunately for you, your post does not show any evidence of you being smarter than most, since it is a vast, vast oversimplification and misrepresentation of why Obama won.

 

[Martin_Kaine]

Ah, you are one of those, who think you are smarter than most. Unfortunately for you, your post does not show any evidence of you being smarter than most, since it is a vast, vast oversimplification and misrepresentation of why Obama won.

I didn't actually say that I was smarter than most. I hold that truth to be self evident. :lol:

Of course even if I had or anytime anyone does, it isn't much of a claim is it? It doesn't even qualify you as an elitist to say you are smarter than most. Hell, anyone with a job that possesses a library card, credit card, and a couple of business cards all in the same wallet, that they didn't steal, is smarter than most are they not?

Hell, even a guy that stole such a wallet is probably smarter than most. Give me 3 months to train a bright young squirrel monkey and he will be smarter than most. rof

 

[Redress]

I didn't actually say that I was smarter than most. I hold that truth to be self evident. :lol:

Of course even if I had or anytime anyone does, it isn't much of a claim is it? It doesn't even qualify you as an elitist to say you are smarter than most. Hell, anyone with a job that possesses a library card, credit card, and a couple of business cards all in the same wallet, that they didn't steal, is smarter than most are they not?

Hell, even a guy that stole such a wallet is probably smarter than most. Give me 3 months to train a bright young squirrel monkey and he will be smarter than most. rof

Actually, no, you are wrong and in a big way. I live in a small, rural farming community. Most of the farmers here have been to the library just to look how to repair something(these days probably their computer), and yet they are incredibly smart in their area of expertise. What people get confused by is that they pick an area they know alot about, and see that others don't, and think that makes them smarter.