Guy Incognito
DP Veteran
- Joined
- May 14, 2010
- Messages
- 11,216
- Reaction score
- 2,846
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Libertarian
You're comparing a political view that believes in decentralized control to christianity?
It disgusts me. Libertarians would legalize all drugs, but that doesn't mean we should actually use them. Libertarians would legalize prostitution but that doesn't mean we should actually partake of prostitutes.
I can understand why hedonists and libertines would be attracted to libertarianism; so that their debaucheries are legalized. But at its root, libertarianism is the most Christian of political philosophies: it is about non-coercion, like Christ instructed (also Buddha, Muhammed and the prophets and teachers of every other organized religion, btw).
So why does it seem like libertarians are only dregs and junkies? Why doesnt libertarianism attract more decent, self-disciplined people?
I think you answered your own question. When your goal is to legalize a vice you really shouldn't be surprised that the movement attracts people who partake in that vice. That's like offering free booze and then complaining about how many drunks show up.
How can you call yourself libertarian and not know the bias in your thought process, that keeps you from understanding the truth?It disgusts me. Libertarians would legalize all drugs, but that doesn't mean we should actually use them. Libertarians would legalize prostitution but that doesn't mean we should actually partake of prostitutes.
I can understand why hedonists and libertines would be attracted to libertarianis; so that their debaucheries are legalized. But at its root, libertarianism is the most Christian of political philosophies: it is abou non-coercion, like Christ instructed (also Buddha, Muhammed and the prophets and teachers of every other organized religion, btw).
So why does it seem like libertarians are only dregs and junkies? Why doesnt libertarianism attract more decent, self-disciplined people?
1.2 Personal Privacy
Libertarians support the rights recognized by the Fourth Amendment to be secure in our persons, homes, and property. Protection from unreasonable search and seizure should include records held by third parties, such as email, medical, and library records. Only actions that infringe on the rights of others can properly be termed crimes. We favor the repeal of all laws creating “crimes” without victims, such as the use of drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes.
1.5 Crime and Justice
Government exists to protect the rights of every individual including life, liberty and property. Criminal laws should be limited to violation of the rights of others through force or fraud, or deliberate actions that place others involuntarily at significant risk of harm. Individuals retain the right to voluntarily assume risk of harm to themselves. We support restitution to the victim to the fullest degree possible at the expense of the criminal or the negligent wrongdoer. We oppose reduction of constitutional safeguards of the rights of the criminally accused. The rights of due process, a speedy trial, legal counsel, trial by jury, and the legal presumption of innocence until proven guilty, must not be denied. We assert the common-law right of juries to judge not only the facts but also the justice of the law.
1.0 Personal Liberty
Individuals should be free to make choices for themselves and to accept responsibility for the consequences of the choices they make. No individual, group, or government may initiate force against any other individual, group, or government. Our support of an individual's right to make choices in life does not mean that we necessarily approve or disapprove of those choices.
It disgusts me. Libertarians would legalize all drugs, but that doesn't mean we should actually use them. Libertarians would legalize prostitution but that doesn't mean we should actually partake of prostitutes.
I can understand why hedonists and libertines would be attracted to libertarianism; so that their debaucheries are legalized. But at its root, libertarianism is the most Christian of political philosophies: it is about non-coercion, like Christ instructed (also Buddha, Muhammed and the prophets and teachers of every other organized religion, btw).
So why does it seem like libertarians are only dregs and junkies? Why doesnt libertarianism attract more decent, self-disciplined people?
But it is equally shocking to me that self professed Christians would want to enforce virtue at the point of a gun. Libertarianism is, really, about voluntary virtue. Coercing virtue is antithetical to the espoused values of Christians.
Great answer!I agree with you, I am Christian and I fully understand that virtue and Charity are meaningless if you are forced to do them. But the answer to why some Christians want it enforced is pretty simple, and applies to far more than legislated virtue: Power is a vice.
I'm not a dreg or a junkie. I'm a businessman with a wife and an owned home. I don't use drugs or prostitutes. Nevertheless I understand that the reason they are not victimless crimes is that they are illegal. They would be victimless if they were legal. I don't care if someone wants to have an addiction. I care that they commit crimes in order to indulge in the addiction and I care that the trafficking element is criminal and uncontrolled. I'd rather we had a more peaceful style of addiction in our society. Prostitution is related to the drug addiction issue in many respects. The reason it is bad is that it is illegal. If it were legal then competition and private enterprise would clean it up. I don't think prostitution has much effect on the daily lives of Nevadans. Your view is religious. My view is practical.It disgusts me. Libertarians would legalize all drugs, but that doesn't mean we should actually use them. Libertarians would legalize prostitution but that doesn't mean we should actually partake of prostitutes.
I can understand why hedonists and libertines would be attracted to libertarianism; so that their debaucheries are legalized. But at its root, libertarianism is the most Christian of political philosophies: it is about non-coercion, like Christ instructed (also Buddha, Muhammed and the prophets and teachers of every other organized religion, btw).
So why does it seem like libertarians are only dregs and junkies? Why doesnt libertarianism attract more decent, self-disciplined people?
It disgusts me. Libertarians would legalize all drugs, but that doesn't mean we should actually use them. Libertarians would legalize prostitution but that doesn't mean we should actually partake of prostitutes.
I can understand why hedonists and libertines would be attracted to libertarianism; so that their debaucheries are legalized. But at its root, libertarianism is the most Christian of political philosophies: it is about non-coercion, like Christ instructed (also Buddha, Muhammed and the prophets and teachers of every other organized religion, btw).
So why does it seem like libertarians are only dregs and junkies? Why doesnt libertarianism attract more decent, self-disciplined people?
It disgusts me. Libertarians would legalize all drugs, but that doesn't mean we should actually use them. Libertarians would legalize prostitution but that doesn't mean we should actually partake of prostitutes.
I can understand why hedonists and libertines would be attracted to libertarianism; so that their debaucheries are legalized. But at its root, libertarianism is the most Christian of political philosophies: it is about non-coercion, like Christ instructed (also Buddha, Muhammed and the prophets and teachers of every other organized religion, btw).
So why does it seem like libertarians are only dregs and junkies? Why doesnt libertarianism attract more decent, self-disciplined people?
Personal freedom does not inherently mean personal responsibility.
Why doesnt libertarianism attract more decent, self-disciplined people?
What is your evidence that it doesn't?
My evidence is entirely anecdotal
I can understand why hedonists and libertines would be attracted to libertarianism; so that their debaucheries are legalized.
It disgusts me. Libertarians would legalize all drugs, but that doesn't mean we should actually use them. Libertarians would legalize prostitution but that doesn't mean we should actually partake of prostitutes.
I can understand why hedonists and libertines would be attracted to libertarianism; so that their debaucheries are legalized. But at its root, libertarianism is the most Christian of political philosophies: it is about non-coercion, like Christ instructed (also Buddha, Muhammed and the prophets and teachers of every other organized religion, btw).
So why does it seem like libertarians are only dregs and junkies? Why doesnt libertarianism attract more decent, self-disciplined people?
Indeed. Jesus's message (and Buddha, Muhammed, Zoroaster, etc) was that one should never initiate violence against another.
But you are wrong. Libertarianism is about noncoercion, not necessarily decentralization.
How can you call yourself libertarian and not know the bias in your thought process, that keeps you from understanding the truth?
When actual libertarians talk about drugs, they talk about legalizing marihuana. Few talk about other drugs.
In christianity you have all power centralized into one being, who has absolute and total control over all of his subjects. He will use his force to throw dissenters into a fiery pit of torture. So honestly, libertarianism might be the exact OPPOSITE of christianity.
Always a source of amusing caricatures of religious belief. Suffice to say that it's a lot more complicated than that; no matter what the supreme being wants the people always seem to be doing something else. Something about that gift of free will, I think. One would think that if God wanted nothing more than obedience He would have thought ahead far enough to not give people free will! But it appears He had something else in mind.
Some of the founders wrote that without Christian morality American democracy could not work. The same goes double for any conception of libertarianism in American democracy. A reasonable amount of personal restraint can help keep things from getting totally out of hand no matter how much freedom is allowed. Things getting totally out of hand becomes inevitable when there is no such restraint even when government regulations are more burdensome than usual.
We are seeing that sentiment played out these days in real life. We have a group in power now that will stop at nothing to get what they want, who are systematically tearing down the traditional restraints on government just because they think they gain some advantage from it, people who are not restrained by any sense of decency or morality or any care for the welfare and future of the country. The current spate of zombie movies points, I think, to the underlying popular notion of where this is all going -- to the day that society dissolves all around us and we are left to fend for ourselves -- libertarian paradise, as some statists would falsely and sneeringly describe it.
Why doesnt libertarianism attract more decent, self-disciplined people?
Absolutely. I would say more than other parties do. The fringe elements though... Wow...Libertarianism does attract decent, self-disciplined people.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?