Why aliens haven’t visited Earth yet

[Noodlegawd]

The odds that we are the only life forms or even the only intelligent life forms in all that "0"

Incorrect. We have no idea what the odds of life are. We only have one example of life forming on a planet, and we have no idea how it happened, what would be required for it to happen again, or what the odds are of it happening even under ideal conditions.

Even if there were a trillion planets with conditions exactly like those that existed at the time life first formed on Earth, if the odds of that happening under those conditions were only 1 in 10 trillion, it still wouldn't be very likely to have happened anywhere else.

 

[devildavid]

There doesn't need to be an actual physical simulation of a universe. Just a simulation of what one person in that simulation experiences.



True. But that's not evidence that it's possible on any planet other than Earth.

That is solipsistic. And how can a real person exist in a simulation without being a simulation themselves? Answer, they can't. Any conclusion they make about being in a simulation is jsut part of the simulation.

Technically, is is the best evidence that there is. And makes it possible on any planet anywhere that duplicates the same physical conditions that made it possible on earth.

 

[devildavid]

Which is exactly what an unknowing participant in a computer simulation would say.

So then what is the point of calling it a simulation?

 

[Sabre]

Incorrect. We have no idea what the odds of life are. We only have one example of life forming on a planet, and we have no idea how it happened, what would be required for it to happen again, or what the odds are of it happening even under ideal conditions.

Even if there were a trillion planets with conditions exactly like those that existed at the time life first formed on Earth, if the odds of that happening under those conditions were only 1 in 10 trillion, it still wouldn't be very likely to have happened anywhere else.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on that.

 

[Mulefoot]

So then what is the point of calling it a simulation?

That's what the game designer wants us to call it.

 

[devildavid]

That's what the game designer wants us to call it.

Yes, and so? How does that change our lives at all? And why isn't everybody calling it a simulation? I'm not. Oh yes, all part part the simulation. This is the intellectual equivalent of a wet dish rag. Sounds more like a religious belief than rational speculation. Meaningless nonsense that actually makes religions look more rational.

 

[Noodlegawd]

That is solipsistic. And how can a real person exist in a simulation without being a simulation themselves? Answer, they can't. Any conclusion they make about being in a simulation is jsut part of the simulation.

I didn't say anything about a real person existing in a simulation. We cannot prove that we are real people, without assuming that the universe we live in is real.

Technically, is is the best evidence that there is. And makes it possible on any planet anywhere that duplicates the same physical conditions that made it possible on earth.

It is the best evidence there is, yet it is totally inadequate to establish any probability for the conclusion. That's not what I would call "evidence" except in the very most abstract sense.

 

[Noodlegawd]

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on that.

It's a discussion forum. You're free to provide some reasoning to the contrary if you can.

 

[devildavid]

I didn't say anything about a real person existing in a simulation. We cannot prove that we are real people, without assuming that the universe we live in is real.



It is the best evidence there is, yet it is totally inadequate to establish any probability for the conclusion. That's not what I would call "evidence" except in the very most abstract sense.

How can something real exist in a simulation?

it is adequate for anyone to conclude it is possible. Possible is not the same as probable. We are only talking about the possibility.

 

[Mulefoot]

Yes, and so? How does that change our lives at all? And why isn't everybody calling it a simulation? I'm not. Oh yes, all part part the simulation. This is the intellectual equivalent of a wet dish rag. Sounds more like a religious belief than rational speculation. Meaningless nonsense that actually makes religions look more rational.

You got anything better?

 

[Gordy327]

Since we have no idea how life arose on earth, one could certainly argue that life cannot possibly happen by natural processes (currently, the very best argument for naturalism is "we here, ain't we?").

Current evidence suggests life did arise naturally. There is nothing to suggest otherwise.

Given that particular variable could be zero, the entire equation could be worthless.

Earth is just an example and a template. Earth is also proof there is life in the universe. Given the conditions in which life can exist and even thrive, the sheer size of the universe and the number of potential planets that could exist, it's rather probable exolife does exist. That doesn't even take into account the idea that some life bearing planets could have existed in the past but were destroyed by their host stars dying.

It's entirely possible that Earth is the only planet that contains life at all.

Possible, but not likely.

 

[Mulefoot]

Current evidence suggests life did arise naturally. There is nothing to suggest otherwise.

It's possible that organic molecules needed for life could be formed from inorganic components, within specific conditions. Of course this isn't evidence that life arose naturally. We don't know.

Earth is just an example and a template. Earth is also proof there is life in the universe. Given the conditions in which life can exist and even thrive, the sheer size of the universe and the number of potential planets that could exist, it's rather probable exolife does exist. That doesn't even take into account the idea that some life bearing planets could have existed in the past but were destroyed by their host stars dying.

I could just as easily propose that given the sheer complexity of the simplest of life, it's rather probably that ExoLife does not exist. Point is, we don't have a clue.

Possible, but not likely.

We don't know that either.

 

[psikeyhackr]

Figuring out the motivations of aliens is really easy.

 

[devildavid]

You got anything better?

Yes, reality. It's much more interesting than solipsistic musings about things that make no actual difference in how we live our lives.

 

[Mulefoot]

Yes, reality. It's much more interesting than solipsistic musings about things that make no actual difference in how we live our lives.

Which is exactly what an unknowing participant in a computer simulation would say.

 

[devildavid]

It's possible that organic molecules needed for life could be formed from inorganic components, within specific conditions. Of course this isn't evidence that life arose naturally. We don't know.

I could just as easily propose that given the sheer complexity of the simplest of life, it's rather probably that ExoLife does not exist. Point is, we don't have a clue.

We don't know that either.

And that is why we keep trying to learn about the only thing that we can: physical reality. I'm glad there are enough human beings who continue to do that rather than giving up because we don't know everything right now.

 

[devildavid]

Which is exactly what an unknowing participant in a computer simulation would say.

Yeah, sure. Whatever amuses you.

 

[ataraxia]

It's also entirely possible that this is all a simulation, the "real" universe is totally different, and none of us really exist.

Something I call "me" exists. Hard to be skeptical of that. Now it could be totally different than the conception I have of myself right now. It could just be a brain in a vat hooked up to electrodes giving me the sensation that I look and act the way I do- a la Matrix or something. But something called "me" exists.

"I think, therefore I am"
-Renee Descartes

 

[Mulefoot]

And that is why we keep trying to learn about the only thing that we can: physical reality. I'm glad there are enough human beings who continue to do that rather than giving up because we don't know everything right now.

Absolutely.

 

[Gordy327]

It's possible that organic molecules needed for life could be formed from inorganic components, within specific conditions. Of course this isn't evidence that life arose naturally. We don't know.

The evidence shows it is possible. No one says this is how life started definitively. But it's the best explanation so far based on the evidence.

I could just as easily propose that given the sheer complexity of the simplest of life, it's rather probably that ExoLife does not exist. Point is, we don't have a clue.

We don't know that either.

True, we do not know if there is exolife. Until we develop technology advanced enough to enable us to detect exolife, or if said life comes to us, we will not know. Even finding the simplest microbe will be proof of exolife.

 

[Grasshopper121212]

Not sure about warping space, but warping the mind is apparently possible.

I know. Non-believers are really warped, aren't they Mad Max.

 

[Luce]

INB4 @Hamish Howl

 

[Luce]

It's also entirely possible that this is all a simulation, the "real" universe is totally different, and none of us really exist.

Close the car door on your hand.

This will verify whether or not you exist.

 

[ecofarm]

Homeostasis is not possible. There is no mastery over nature. A people must keep moving, change planets, go places, discover new things or disappear.

The good news is there are no evil aliens. At least, no evil aliens capable of travelling galaxies. With technological development comes social development, as we see in the one example available to us (the history of the Earth). So, considering the available evidence, a civilization greatly advanced in technology would also be greatly advanced in social evolution. They would be better people than us.

But, yeah, this whole, "let's just hunker down" thing? That's a fail. It's Trek or bust.

 

[Mulefoot]

The evidence shows it is possible. No one says this is how life started definitively. But it's the best explanation so far based on the evidence.

Specifically, the evidence showed that organic molecules formed from inorganic components, is possible.

A great experiment, but there are far greater obstacles to understanding abiogenesis than the Miller experiment.