Why A Government Shutdown Over The Wall? (2 Viewers)

[ElChupacabra]

I am very confused, can Trump supporters please explain this to me.

Why is it, the President of the United States is threatening to shut down his own government because of the Border Wall, when he assured us all, that Mexico was going to pay for it...





Shutdowns actually end up costing more money for Taxpayers than if the government just stays open due to a number of factors.

So not only would building the wall be a massive waste of money, but Trump is threatening to waste even more money in an attempt to waste more money.

The utter stupidity of contemporary American politics is astounding.

It is funny listening to his comments and where we are now. "Mexico is going to pay for that wall, believe me"....yeah, sure.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

Because the Democrats want a vacation from Washington.

I still think he should still make them pay for it. Charge everyone coming across the border a fee. I have to pay to cross a bridge or tunnel into New York or New Jersey. I think we should do the same at our borders. I think the fee should not only cover the wall but the border patrol and all the people paid to deport those entering illegally.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

Trump is the laughing stock of the world.....rightfully so

Trump is the solution to our problems. He is willing to take on these other countries that have using and abusing us for decades.

 

[Logician Man]

Trump is the solution to our problems. He is willing to take on these other countries that have using and abusing us for decades.

Oh really ?...What was trump's response to Putin when he invaded the Ukraine, or tried to annex Crimea ?.For that matter, when has Trump call out Putin 'by name' for anything?....including meddling in our elections which every U.S. intel agency has stated he did?..or the recent 'buzzing' of U.S. fighter jets by Russian fighter jets in international air space? please cite any sources for any claims you 'may' present.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

I don't disagree with that point, for me it's about how this country uses its resources to remediate the problem. A $25 billion wall doesn't seem like the best use of those resources in my opinion. Similar to your reference to drugs, if you stop the demand then the supply doesn't need to be met. The problem is the demand for cheap labor fuels the profit margins of plenty of businesses in the US, so a wall won't keep the folks out determined to get that kind of work. Also, finding a more efficient way to manage foreign labor would help in that process as well.

That is going to be tough because most of Hollywood think Mexicans are their personal slaves to tend to their every need. That is why we need to find out from everyone coming into this country who they will be working for and make sure that all wages are paid according to our laws and all taxes are collected. The free ride for the Hollywood blowhards needs to be the first place we start. The same clowns with the carbon footprint of a dinosaur telling the hard working people they need to cut back. I don't need some bigot from The View with a $5000.00 a month electric bill telling me I am the problem when my eclectic bill averages $75.00 a month.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

Oh really ?...What was trump's response to Putin when he invaded the Ukraine, or tried to annex Crimea ?.For that matter, when has Trump call out Putin 'by name' for anything?....including meddling in our elections which every U.S. intel agency has stated he did?..or the recent 'buzzing' of U.S. fighter jets by Russian fighter jets in international air space? please cite any sources for any claims you 'may' present.

You are right he should have started a war with Russia by now. Hopefully the next president will press the button and do the right thing.

 

[Logician Man]

You are right he should have started a war with Russia by now. Hopefully the next president will press the button and do the right thing.

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Nice dodge PIPER.....but certainly no surprise. I wouldn't expect a Trump cultist to give a square answer to a fair question....carry on...

 

[iguanaman]

Building a wall...making Mexico pay for it...those are both very easy things to do. But both require Congress to get them done.

When Trump campaigned on those two issues, he counted on Congressional Republicans. Those Republicans stabbed him in the back. As a consequence, he has dropped the notion of Mexico paying for the wall and he is focusing on getting the wall built.

So you can just drop the "Mexico is supposed to pay for it" stuff...thanks to Congress. (unless, of course, you want to dishonestly continue to make it an issue)

Now...regarding the shutdown. Tell me...exactly how much does it cost to shut down the government? Hmmm? If it's much more than the $5 billion Trump wants for the wall right now, then wouldn't it be better for the Senate Dems to give him the money than to force the shutdown?

What would be better is if he didn't shut down peoples paychecks 4 days before Christmas. The wall is not ever going to be built. It's an illusion for his base.

 

[Nickyjo]

Building the wall and securing our border is necessary thanks to the millions of lawless lowlifes with no respect for our immigration policies or the people in this country.

You obviously have studied the issue thoroughly. Can you share your sources that show who these lowlifes are? Are they the ones who pick fruits and vegetables, the ones who clean motel rooms, work at packing plants and wash dishes in restaurants, making our lives better by lowering the costs of those goods and services?

 

[Nickyjo]

Building a wall...making Mexico pay for it...those are both very easy things to do. But both require Congress to get them done.

When Trump campaigned on those two issues, he counted on Congressional Republicans. Those Republicans stabbed him in the back. As a consequence, he has dropped the notion of Mexico paying for the wall and he is focusing on getting the wall built.

So you can just drop the "Mexico is supposed to pay for it" stuff...thanks to Congress. (unless, of course, you want to dishonestly continue to make it an issue)

Now...regarding the shutdown. Tell me...exactly how much does it cost to shut down the government? Hmmm? If it's much more than the $5 billion Trump wants for the wall right now, then wouldn't it be better for the Senate Dems to give him the money than to force the shutdown?

Tell us how congressional republicans were supposed to make Mexico pay for the wall, especially since any Mexican government who tried to do so would be voted out of office?

 

[Nickyjo]

The general population is in favor of the wall. No one ever asked voters if they wanted Americas demographic to change this way, and Trump did run on building a wall in response to this. The democrats want to use illigal immigration to swamp the conservative middle class and be done with conservatives once and for all when they are in position to grant amnesty to an unknown number of illegals - somewhere between 14 million to 24 million depending on who’s figures you choose. And that is before chain migration is factored in.

As far as “pay for it”, money is fungible. Most will accept the wall, and understand the “If you like your doctor” nature of the boast.

Really? US demographics have been changing since the slaves arrived. People had hissy fits over the Irish, the Germans, the Italians, the Jews... We got over it. Keep telling yourself: "Mexicans were here when the Anglos arrived. Why do you think the songs are not called "I left my heart in St. Francis", or "Do You Know the Way to St. Joseph"? We invaded Mexico, took over half their territory. They are returning the favor, as Africa is to Europe. Consider it a compliment. Yes, they come illegally. Without papers, WOP for short. Hmmm... Didn't that refer to another group of immigrants?

Relax. Learn a few Spanish phrases. You'll get along fine.

 

[Nickyjo]

So...there you go.

The Dems don't mind shutting down the government because that will cost less than giving Trump the money he wants.

Of course, unlike you, the Dems don't care about the money. They just don't want to give Trump anything he wants. It's all about opposition.

Shutdown...money...national security...Chuck and Nancy don't care. Trump getting what he wants...NO WAY!!

All spending bills begin in the House. The House is republican. Put up or shut up.

 

[Nickyjo]

You should read more.

Trump told everyone how to make Mexico pay for the wall way back during his campaign.

I guess you never read about that, eh?

Refresh our memory.

 

[Nickyjo]

The Democrats will be the ones shutting down the government. Build the wall; no shutdown.

I'll shut down the government if you don't kiss my ass. Obviously it's your fault if the government shuts down.

Not even Trump believes that.

 

[Nickyjo]

Build the wall. Shutdown avoided. It isn't rocket science.

Don't build the wall. Shutdown avoided. It isn't rocket science.

You would have done well in the old Mafia racket. "Pay protection. Your store doesn't catch fire. Tragedy avoided."

 

[Nickyjo]

Good, it should be an easy thing for them to approve then.

Because that's why Trump was elected. Give people what they want, or suffer for it.

You may have missed it, but he wasn't the only one elected.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

You obviously have studied the issue thoroughly. Can you share your sources that show who these lowlifes are? Are they the ones who pick fruits and vegetables, the ones who clean motel rooms, work at packing plants and wash dishes in restaurants, making our lives better by lowering the costs of those goods and services?

You mean driving wages down in this country so we become a third world country like the mess they made out of their country. You mean not paying taxes so we have to pay more. You mean the undoing of everything our parents and grandparents fought for. Terrible things like better wages, benefits, a safe working environment, and a middle class. Oh the we need slaves to pick cotton or we won't be able to afford clothing lie. Only now it is to pick vegetables and clean our homes. I am so glad you think exploiting immigrants like the coal barons did in the NE is such a wonderful plan.

 

[Nickyjo]

You mean driving wages down in this country so we become a third world country like the mess they made out of their country. You mean not paying taxes so we have to pay more. You mean the undoing of everything our parents and grandparents fought for. Terrible things like better wages, benefits, a safe working environment, and a middle class. Oh the we need slaves to pick cotton or we won't be able to afford clothing lie. Only now it is to pick vegetables and clean our homes. I am so glad you think exploiting immigrants like the coal barons did in the NE is such a wonderful plan.

Couldn't agree with you more about some of your comments, except the ignorant notion that immigrants made messes of their countries. With respect to Central Americans, the US holds a great deal of responsibility for the messes.

But in our discussion of illegal immigration, we deal in political contradictions. In general, the GOP complains about illegal immigration, as it is an issue they perceive as a winning one. But their constituency, employers, love cheap labor. How wonderful if, say, President Trump suggested increasing the minimum wage substantially to make jobs illegals take more attractive to citizens and legal residents. And let's get rid of right-to-work laws that keep unions weak, so that wages can rise.

"Are you crazy, Donald?!? Remember, we're republicans!"

 

[Hawkeye10]

Couldn't agree with you more about some of your comments, except the ignorant notion that immigrants made messes of their countries. With respect to Central Americans, the US holds a great deal of responsibility for the messes.

But in our discussion of illegal immigration, we deal in political contradictions. In general, the GOP complains about illegal immigration, as it is an issue they perceive as a winning one. But their constituency, employers, love cheap labor. How wonderful if, say, President Trump suggested increasing the minimum wage substantially to make jobs illegals take more attractive to citizens and legal residents. And let's get rid of right-to-work laws that keep unions weak, so that wages can rise.

"Are you crazy, Donald?!? Remember, we're republicans!"

Both parties have been very welcoming to both illegals and very easy to obtain legals when businesses have wanted them, and we should expect no less from a completely corrupt government.

 

[ElChupacabra]

That is going to be tough because most of Hollywood think Mexicans are their personal slaves to tend to their every need. That is why we need to find out from everyone coming into this country who they will be working for and make sure that all wages are paid according to our laws and all taxes are collected. The free ride for the Hollywood blowhards needs to be the first place we start. The same clowns with the carbon footprint of a dinosaur telling the hard working people they need to cut back. I don't need some bigot from The View with a $5000.00 a month electric bill telling me I am the problem when my eclectic bill averages $75.00 a month.

It's not just about Hollywood, it's a national issue that affects multiple industries: agriculture, restaurant, construction, retail, hospitality etc. The tough part is the impact it has on small businesses since some rely on the cheap labor to improve their profit margins (or in some cases stay afloat) and while the easy answer is to let businesses "sink or swim", those businesses going under hurts local communities. We're a nation that's benefited from cheap labor; by those who migrate here illegally or the type hired in foreign countries by companies selling us cheap goods. It's been the US middle class who has had more of a free ride in that regard; cheap goods from abroad made by people paid little and in poor working conditions have made a lot of things affordable that otherwise would have been significantly more expensive if made here.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

Couldn't agree with you more about some of your comments, except the ignorant notion that immigrants made messes of their countries. With respect to Central Americans, the US holds a great deal of responsibility for the messes.

But in our discussion of illegal immigration, we deal in political contradictions. In general, the GOP complains about illegal immigration, as it is an issue they perceive as a winning one. But their constituency, employers, love cheap labor. How wonderful if, say, President Trump suggested increasing the minimum wage substantially to make jobs illegals take more attractive to citizens and legal residents. And let's get rid of right-to-work laws that keep unions weak, so that wages can rise.

"Are you crazy, Donald?!? Remember, we're republicans!"

I do not support either party when they are wrong. Plus both parties are owned by the same rich and powerful. I looked up a lot of the biggest contributors to the parties and the banks contribute equally to both parties. That pretty much tells me they own both parties and could care less who I vote for. That is unless it is someone like Trump who is not one of their bought and paid for puppets.

 

[Chomsky]

Ummm…

"the Dems come to power" That doesn't happen until next year.

The Senate Dems have been holding this up for two years.

Chuck sat there and told Trump...and the people...that the Senate Dems won't fund the wall. He told Trump to shut down the government.

Yes, the Dems "came to power", even if not yet installed. That's why Trump is now negotiating with them, and using them as foils.

 

[Mycroft]

Yes, the Dems "came to power", even if not yet installed. That's why Trump is now negotiating with them, and using them as foils.

Negotiating? I didn't see Trump negotiate anything. Hell, I didn't see Schumer negotiate anything, either.

 

[Nickyjo]

Negotiating? I didn't see Trump negotiate anything. Hell, I didn't see Schumer negotiate anything, either.

Amazing: FOX said Trump wiped the floor with them. Others say he looked like the one afraid to have things voted on.

Nancy summed it up perfectly afterwards with her great zingers about his manhood.

The wall might as well be an obelisk. It stands for Trump's junk: "a big beautiful wall... the wall just got 20 feet higher..."

 

[Chomsky]

Negotiating? I didn't see Trump negotiate anything. Hell, I didn't see Schumer negotiate anything, either.

The difference between "negotiating" or "attempting to negotiate" has no bearing on my point. Trump had them there for a reason.