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Who won the debate tonight?

Who won the debate tonight?

  • Total voters
    61
I think it depends upon what is meant by "win." a win could mean how most people perceived it, who looked the most comfortable, who told the least falsehoods, who looked the most energetic, etc etc etc.

on debate day, David Brooks said on NPR that most people won't remember ANYTHING that was said by either candidate. they'll only remember how they looked why they were saying it, and I believe this is true.

while some may accuse me of merely being partisan, I have to call it a clear Obama win, despite the fact that McCain was clearly more aggressive and had Obama on the defensive much of the night. it didn't look all that good that Obama was interrupting McCain often, but it was most often to object to all of McCain's falsehoods.

Obama "won" according to nearly every conceivable definition of win.

but in my opinion, who is most in command of facts is my chief criteria. in this regard, it was nothing but an Obama landslide.

many have been mentioned already. but I haven't read the whole thread.

McCain's pants were on fire. the blatant falsehoods and selectively convenient omissions were pretty much unbelievable.

  • McCain claimed that Obama voted in the Senate to raise taxes on anyone making more than $42,000 a year.
  • Earmarks haven't gone up in the last five years, they've gone down.
  • Obama's health care plan won't turn the system over to the government.
  • The GAO found problems with the rebidding of the Boeing tanker contract, which is not how McCain paints that picture.
  • One of the more significant overseas countries that doesn't like us, according to McCain, is Canada.
  • Yet another misleading account of Obama's "strikes within Pakistan" remark.
  • McCain didn't vote against deploying Marines in Beirut in 1982. But the marines had already been deployed. he actually voted to not extend their deployment, in 1983.
  • The reason we are in a fiscal crisis is because of runaway spending?
  • McCain says that he had demanded that SEC chair Cox resign, but what he actually said was that he would fire Cox if he were POTUS, which is something he wouldn't have the power to do.
  • McCain actually voted for the bill that made the appropriations for the Montana bears study, and he never attempted to remove the earmark. the point of the study was to take the bears of the endangered species list, which would have helped ease restrictions on logging, drilling, and development.
  • The business tax in Ireland is 12.5%.
  • Former Secretary of State Kissinger, at a talk at George Washington University on September 16 of this year, stated that the next president of the United States should enter into direct talks with Iran without conditions. Kissinger: Open direct Iran talks - UPI.com
  • Have the "North Koreans broken EVERY agreement they've ever entered into?"
  • McCain has voted for veterans funding bills only 30% of the time, according to a scorecard of roll-call votes put out by the nonpartisan Disabled Americans for America.
  • Was Pakistan really a "Failed" state before Musharraf's coup?
  • “I’ve always voted for alternate energy”. Not even hardly.
  • McCain repeated the false "Threat by Iran to wipe Israel off the map" ... Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  • Mike Mullen said a time line for withdrawal could be “very dangerous” but was not talking specifically about “Obama’s plan,” as McCain maintained.
  • McCain repeated the false insinuation that Obama opposed naming Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps as a terrorist organization.
  • McCain said Obama was against storing nuclear waste. That's not exactly his position.
  • anybody notice that whichever Democratic senator happens to be running for President suddenly becomes "the most liberal senator?"

... and I could keep on going, but it's late ...
 
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John1234 said:
When did he say this?
Click to expand...

he said it on Friday during the debate.

International Herald Tribune

"Look, we are sending $700 billion a year overseas to countries that don't like us very much. Some of that money ends up in the hands of terrorist organizations. We have to have wind, tide, solar, natural gas, flex fuel cars and all that but we also have to have offshore drilling and we also have to have nuclear power."

He was talking about what the US is spending on foreign oil. But about a third of that goes to Mexico, Canada and the UK. are those countries that don't like us very much? are Mexico and Canada overseas?
 
niftydrifty said:
he said it on Friday during the debate.

International Herald Tribune

"Look, we are sending $700 billion a year overseas to countries that don't like us very much. Some of that money ends up in the hands of terrorist organizations. We have to have wind, tide, solar, natural gas, flex fuel cars and all that but we also have to have offshore drilling and we also have to have nuclear power."

He was talking about what the US is spending on foreign oil. But about a third of that goes to Mexico, Canada and the UK. are those countries that don't like us very much? are Mexico and Canada overseas?
Click to expand...

You scared me at first.
Its bad enough that he considers Spain (aggressive).
I had the impression he was aggressive towards Canada too for a minute there lol.
But your analysis is more of a play on words.
I am sure McCain did not even realize that his statement included Canada.
His "overseas" reference would tend to indicate that.
Even McCain knows where Canada is.

With him though, I guess it would not really surprise me if he started threatening Canada.
 
John1234 said:
I am sure McCain did not even realize that his statement included Canada.
Click to expand...

THis is exactly what makes me feel so uneasy about McCain. I'd feel more comfortable if he knew MORE than I did about this stuff.
 
I decided to wait until after the polls started running to decide.

What we see is that the majority of those who watched the debate, actually feel Barack Obama came off as more positive and McCain was seen as grumpy, and condescending - both of which brought his rating down this week.

Therefore... Obama Wins Debate

barack-obama-wins.jpg
 
Last edited:
Pull My Finger said:
No, I’m not originally from the US. I hope I don’t insult when I use the term ‘we’, it’s just easier in certain contexts.

To be honest, I know less about my own country. We see a lot of American news up here, even in our own local news. I’m pretty sure I put more effort into learning about the US than the average Canadian does, but Canadians on the whole know who’s running, and may have even tuned in to the American debate (many people I know did). American politics and foreign policy carries weight on a global scale, I guess that’s my interest.

We have an election happening sometime in the middle of Oct, but I’ve seen less coverage in its entirety than I’ve seen in a day of American news for the last year… Stephen Harper (Conservative Prime Minister) v. Stephan Dion (Liberal – this election’s French guy) v. Jack Leyton? (NDP) v. Elizabeth May (Green). Same dirty tricks up here too, maybe worse for mudslinging/smearing…

Conservatives are way out front, Liberals a distant second. NDP, then Green are the small parties. I’m not impressed with any of them, though I’m not entirely versed on all their positions – I can guestimate. I’ll probably throw my vote, and back Green this round. I wonder how many other Canadians are thinking the same thing – Green wins by an accidental landslide…

Peace
Click to expand...

Count me as a Greenie.
 
Well they had a poll on FOX after the debate and 82% said McCain won.....
 
Minutes after the debate I logged in, found this thread sitting here and clicked on Obama Won. Today, I find that there are three more options to choose from. My vote would still be: Obama Won. People need to understand, the poll in this thread did not include the same gradation of choices that you see today.

That being said, being a former combat pilot (like McCain), being a former military officer (like McCain), having flown combat sorties (like McCain); I initially had a genuine affinity for the man. I felt something of a brotherhood with the man. I felt like we shared a common background, purpose and life-choice - to serve our country using the best skills, talents and abilities that we both had.

Today, that brotherhood is gone. I am very angry with John McCain.

I'm angry because of the sheer number of times he stood there, looking at America in the proverbial face while making the decision to tell outright lies to the American People. He told lies about Obama's voting record. He told lies about Obama's position within the Senate and the impact that position has on policy decision of the Senate. He told lies about his long history in the Senate as a deregulator when he presented himself as a long-time regulator. He told lies about the strategic situation in Iraq, claiming tactical developments as long-range strategic victories. He told lies about the situation in Georgia and he mislead the American People into thinking that all the U.S. needs to talk tough to Russia to prevent future break-away nation incursions by Russia. He told lies about Obama's stance on talking with our enemies such as Iran and then he told even more lies about his own advisor's comments about meeting with Iran without pre-conditions. He told lies about his own voting record on tax cut proposals in the Senate.

This man stood in front of the American People and told one lie after another, after another, after another, after another. And, he's now back out on the campaign trail continuing with some of these exact same lies as he claims de-facto responsibility for the current $700 billion congressional vote.

I've seen lies told in commercials on television and I've heard them on radio. But, when you stand in front of 100 million Americans and you have nothing going for you other than to lie your way into more votes, then I don't care that we've shared the same unique background/career in the past because I will ultimately lose all respect for you.

He plays politics with the nation's financial future by claiming that he was shutting down his campaign so that he could put the "Country First" and do what he could to resolve the financial nightmare we all now have to live with. He lied. He was still running ad's, his offices were still open - his staff was still conducting business as usual - his political operatives were still on national television and national radio spinning his campaign message - he was still having phone calls with political field operatives on his way back to Washington and while he was in Washington supposedly dealing with the crisis. When he got to Washington, he sat in the background according to other Republicans and Democrats in congress, where he said nothing, did nothing and contributed nothing.

John McCain was Chair of the Senate Armed Services Committee and was NEVER part of any Senate Committee having anything to do with the national domestic fiscal policy developmental process. So, he had no knowledge to bring to Washington - he was merely attempting to use an economic crisis for political gain by grandstanding and pretending to be materially engaged and complimentary in solving problems. He was neither.

Even though I had decided to not vote for McCain a while back ago, I at least held a tremendous amount of respect for the man. He has single-handedly destroyed that respect.

I now not only want John McCain to lose this election. I want his entire political career to come to an end after this election. A man, who would sell-out his integrity and his honor to this degree, does not belong in a position of political leadership in this country, on any level - national or otherwise.

I'm not only dissappointed with McCain's behavior over the past two months, at this point given his dishonorable behavior, I'm actually angry about it.
 
Last edited:
Pilots For 911 Truth said:
Minutes after the debate I logged in, found this thread sitting here and clicked on Obama Won. Today, I find that there are three more options to choose from. My vote would still be: Obama Won. People need to understand, the poll in this thread did not include the same gradation of choices that you see today.

That being said, being a former combat pilot (like McCain), being a former military officer (like McCain), having flown combat sorties (like McCain); I initially had a genuine affinity for the man. I felt something of a brotherhood with the man. I felt like we shared a common background, purpose and life-choice - to serve our country using the best skills, talents and abilities that we both had.

Today, that brotherhood is gone. I am very angry with John McCain.

I'm angry because of the sheer number of times he stood there, looking at America in the proverbial face while making the decision to tell outright lies to the American People. He told lies about Obama's voting record. He told lies about Obama's position within the Senate and the impact that position has on policy decision of the Senate. He told lies about his long history in the Senate as a deregulator when he presented himself as a long-time regulator. He told lies about the strategic situation in Iraq, claiming tactical developments as long-range strategic victories. He told lies about the situation in Georgia and he mislead the American People into thinking that all the U.S. needs to talk tough to Russia to prevent future break-away nation incursions by Russia. He told lies about Obama's stance on talking with our enemies such as Iran and then he told even more lies about his own advisor's comments about meeting with Iran without pre-conditions. He told lies about his own voting record on tax cut proposals in the Senate.

This man stood in front of the American People and told one lie after another, after another, after another, after another. And, he's now back out on the campaign trail continuing with some of these exact same lies as he claims de-facto responsibility for the current $700 billion congressional vote.

I've seen lies told in commercials on television and I've heard them on radio. But, when you stand in front of 100 million Americans and you have nothing going for you other than to lie your way into more votes, then I don't care that we've shared the same unique background/career in the past because I will ultimately lose all respect for you.

He plays politics with the nation's financial future by claiming that he was shutting down his campaign so that he could put the "Country First" and do what he could to resolve the financial nightmare we all now have to live with. He lied. He was still running ad's, his offices were still open - his staff was still conducting business as usual - his political operatives were still on national television and national radio spinning his campaign message - he was still having phone calls with political field operatives on his way back to Washington and while he was in Washington supposedly dealing with the crisis. When he got to Washington, he sat in the background according to other Republicans and Democrats in congress, where he said nothing, did nothing and contributed nothing.

John McCain was Chair of the Senate Armed Services Committee and was NEVER part of any Senate Committee having anything to do with the national domestic fiscal policy developmental process. So, he had no knowledge to bring to Washington - he was merely attempting to use an economic crisis for political gain by grandstanding and pretending to be materially engaged and complimentary in solving problems. He was neither.

Even though I had decided to not vote for McCain a while back ago, I at least held a tremendous amount of respect for the man. He has single-handedly destroyed that respect.

I now not only want John McCain to lose this election. I want his entire political career to come to an end after this election. A man, who would sell-out his integrity and his honor to this degree, does not belong in a position of political leadership in this country, on any level - national or otherwise.

I'm not only dissappointed with McCain's behavior over the past two months, at this point given his dishonorable behavior, I'm actually angry about it.
Click to expand...

First I thank you for your service to this country and I congratulate you for having all the partisan talking points and spin down.........
 
Navy Pride said:
First I thank you for your service to this country and I congratulate you for having all the partisan talking points and spin down.........
Click to expand...

My BS detector redlined on that guy's post NP. :mrgreen:
 
John1234 said:
Thats about like saying, "I watched a McCain commerical and it said he won".
Click to expand...

Fox News might as well have said Obama won...

It's all now collective taxpayer funnel unto shirt. Keep pumping the shirt into the shirt cycle...maybe inflation won't take control of the dollar, and it won't go to shirt as soon as predicted.
 
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