Who is receiving abortions in the U.S. ?

[Obscurity]

A higher percentage of Christians than people with no religious affiliation abort. From a link posted earlier in the thread:



That adds up to 54% Christian, 38% no religious affiliation and 8% other affiliation.





No, it should be an issue between a woman, her doctor and anyone else she chooses to involve.

Amen.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Total nonsense. Elderly folks have agency. An unaware lump of cells does not.

Not really, agency Is your ability to freely interact and make decisions, this is extremely limited in the later stages of life for most people


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[AGENT J]

Also from a legal standpoint slaves had no agency and neither did the victims of genocide. Bad argument.


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slavery?? LMAO

so what would the woman be if her legal and human rights were violated, she was made a lesser and she was forced against her will to risk her health and life? yes bad argument indeed.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I provided links that showed 54% of people recieving abortions are christians (of one denomination or another) and you tried to spin that into more "ideological liberal christians are getting abortions."

You provided nothing showing actual ideological or political affiliation documents, just spouted off about liberals and the churches they go to.

This is just another shoe boxing attempt, ye olde "They're not real christians" argument.

I posit none of you are real christians. The only real christian died on the cross over some woman creating a religion as cover for her infidelity.

If you get an abortion and are unrepentant (as most who get abortions are) you are not a real Christian since you are supposed to repent of your sinful nature.

The fact “Christians” do xyz is frankly 100% irrelevant here. If all Christians women have had an abortion that merely means there’s a lot of hypocrites, it does not refute any argument


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[EMNofSeattle]

slavery?? LMAO

so what would the woman be if her legal and human rights were violated, she was made a lesser and she was forced against her will to risk her health and life? yes bad argument indeed.

There is no universally recognized legal right to an abortion, this practice is illegal in many countries. Carrying a child does not make one a lesser human being, and risks to health are extremely minimal in the era of modern medicine. Most people, men and women, routinely live lifestyles that are far riskier then a pregnancy.

Also pregnancy is not slavery, slavery is the status of being owned as chattel. A pregnant woman is not property, no one owns her, at least not in the majority of the world. Post Barack Obama’s Libya maybe.


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[Obscurity]

If you get an abortion and are unrepentant (as most who get abortions are) you are not a real Christian since you are supposed to repent of your sinful nature.

The fact “Christians” do xyz is frankly 100% irrelevant here. If all Christians women have had an abortion that merely means there’s a lot of hypocrites, it does not refute any argument


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Frankly, I don't really care. This is all just an attempt by a holier than thou christian to distance themselves from what they deem to be the less savory elements of their hypocritical brethren. I don't have to live with that, you do.

Reply to my consent argument.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Frankly, I don't really care. This is all just an attempt by a holier than thou christian to distance themselves from what they deem to be the less savory elements of their hypocritical brethren. I don't have to live with that, you do.

you brought it up. And you’re still trying to argue it. You also used about 4 fallacies in here.

Reply to my consent argument.

I have.


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[Obscurity]

The ball stops rolling at the beginning of the argument. You make the presupposition you actually have a right to fully control your own body. If this were the case there would be no law at all.

You’ve written a wall of text that’s just continually rephrasing your argument, using ad hominems, making unsupported assertions, etc.

We can side step all of that with mine, you have no right to use your body to violate another person’s, the fetus is a distinct person, therefore there should be no right to violate it.



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So, you have no argument then. See this is the issue with christians, you literally don't think you have the right to bodily autonomy and control of those systems becuase you're clinging to an ideology that would be utterly eviscerated if you admitted it.

That's not my problem, it's yours.

At the end of the day you have no authority to compel a woman to give blood. Thus, your premise is a fraud.

Check out, son.

 

[Obscurity]

There is no universally recognized legal right to an abortion, this practice is illegal in many countries. Carrying a child does not make one a lesser human being, and risks to health are extremely minimal in the era of modern medicine. Most people, men and women, routinely live lifestyles that are far riskier then a pregnancy.

No one said it makes them less of a human being. But the state does not have the right to compel a person to consent to other folks using their bodies in literally any other capacity, so your premise is faulty.

Living a risky lifestyle is irrelevant and a distraction. Pregnancy permanently alters a woman's body.

Also pregnancy is not slavery, slavery is the status of being owned as chattel. A pregnant woman is not property, no one owns her, at least not in the majority of the world. Post Barack Obama’s Libya maybe.

Right, she is not property - not of you, her husband, the state, or any other being - with the exception it seems of the being growing inside her that is using her body to live. So you are willing to be authoritarian of a sort, but at least you admit a woman isn't property. For a christian, that's progress!

 

[Obscurity]

you brought it up. And you’re still trying to argue it. You also used about 4 fallacies in here.


I have.


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Not with any substance. You simply attempt to dismiss a logical argument because it is inconvenient to your position.

Tell me, how open are you to the idea of the state forcing you to donate a kidney?

 

[Scrabaholic]

If you get an abortion and are unrepentant (as most who get abortions are) you are not a real Christian since you are supposed to repent of your sinful nature.

Who are you to say who is a real Christian or not?

There is nowhere in the Bible forbidding a woman from terminating her pregnancy.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Who are you to say who is a real Christian or not?

There is nowhere in the Bible forbidding a woman from terminating her pregnancy.

Thou shall not commit murder.


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[EMNofSeattle]

Not with any substance. You simply attempt to dismiss a logical argument because it is inconvenient to your position.

Tell me, how open are you to the idea of the state forcing you to donate a kidney?

False comparison, pregnancy is not organ donation. Also there is no such thing as being forced to donate, if you are forced that action is not a donation.
Also not donating in Organ does not affirmatively kill a distinct being, Abortion


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[AGENT J]

1.)There is no universally recognized legal right to an abortion
2.) this practice is illegal in many countries.
3.) Carrying a child does not make one a lesser human being
4.) and risks to health are extremely minimal in the era of modern medicine.
5.) Most people, men and women, routinely live lifestyles that are far riskier then a pregnancy.
7.) Also pregnancy is not slavery, slavery is the status of being owned as chattel. A pregnant woman is not property, no one owns her, at least not in the majority of the world. Post Barack Obama’s Libya maybe.


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1.) weird, where did i say theres a universal legal right to an abortion??? oh thats right i didnt
2.) correct the vast majority of 1st world countries where women have rights and freedoms are prochoice then there are "many"y 3rd world countries and or dictatorship countries where women dont have rights and they are prolife.
3.) hey look another retarded straman. where did i say carrying a child makes one a lesser . . please quote that
4.) risks no matter how minimal are not a valid argument for force
5.) by CHOICE
6.) and heres a third failed retarded strawman who said pregnancy is slavery???? Why do you post so many lies and just make stuff up? its VERY telling
your hypocrisy is exposed

in the future maybe address things that were actually said and your posts wont fail so hard. youre welcome!

 

[AGENT J]

If you get an abortion and are unrepentant (as most who get abortions are) you are not a real Christian since you are supposed to repent of your sinful nature.

The fact “Christians” do xyz is frankly 100% irrelevant here. If all Christians women have had an abortion that merely means there’s a lot of hypocrites, it does not refute any argument


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nobody on this planet has the power to judge another as christian or not . . period LMAO . . wow . . .

 

[EMNofSeattle]

nobody on this planet has the power to judge another as christian or not . . period LMAO . . wow . . .

Why would you say that?


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[EMNofSeattle]

1.) weird, where did i say theres a universal legal right to an abortion??? oh thats right i didnt

you referred to it as a human right.

correct the vast majority of 1st world countries where women have rights and freedoms are prochoice then there are "many"y 3rd world countries and or dictatorship countries where women dont have rights and they are prolife.

Chile, Argentina, and Poland are neither third world nor dictatorships. In most of the first world Abortion is far more heavily regulated then most Pro-life legislation has attempted in the US.

3.) hey look another retarded straman. where did i say carrying a child makes one a lesser . . please quote that

Sure thing

slavery?? LMAO

so what would the woman be if her legal and human rights were violated, she was made a lesser and she was forced against her will to risk her health and life? yes bad argument indeed.

) risks no matter how minimal are not a valid argument for force

I agree. That’s why force shouldn’t be used against the unborn

by CHOICE

getting pregnant is a choice

6.) and heres a third failed retarded strawman who said pregnancy is slavery???? Why do you post so many lies and just make stuff up? its VERY telling
your hypocrisy is exposed

in the future maybe address things that were actually said and your posts wont fail so hard. youre welcome!

You did, see above



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[AGENT J]

Why would you say that?


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cause its true.... you can have your feelings and opinions but those are meaningless, none of us get the final say, its beyond our power

 

[AGENT J]

1.) you referred to it as a human right.
2.) Chile, Argentina, and Poland are neither third world nor dictatorships.
3.) In most of the first world Abortion is far more heavily regulated then most Pro-life legislation has attempted in the US.
4.)Sure thing
5.) I agree. That’s why force shouldn’t be used against the unborn
getting pregnant is a choice
6.)You did, see above



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1.) no i factually did not . . thats what you made up in your head . . .i was referring to her right to life but since you brought it up prochoice is a human right stance :shrug: . . now of course i dont know all of the human rights orgs but the only ones i have seen against pro-choice are the ones that were formed for no other reason.

2.) werid . . did i say all. . oh thats right i didnt lol once again making things up
3.) but still prolife
4.) thanks for proving you lied, no where does it say "carrying a child makes her a lesser" violating her rights and forcing her would make her the lesser . . wow
5.) the unborn are inside another so thats just tough . . .no matter what side one is on the fact is we all choice what entity is the lesser and when. in most cases i choose the woman. You chose the ZEF.
6.) translation: you were caught lying and you cant quote me saying the lie you made up. . . thats what i thought

wow that was easy and fun

like i said in the future maybe address things that were actually said and your posts wont fail so hard. youre welcome!

 

[EMNofSeattle]

cause its true.... you can have your feelings and opinions but those are meaningless, none of us get the final say, its beyond our power

It’s true because it’s true? That doesn’t strike me as a circular argument at all...


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[AGENT J]

It’s true because it’s true? That doesn’t strike me as a circular argument at all...


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well its a good thing i said more than that huh? LMAO
your post completely fails again

 

[EMNofSeattle]

well its a good thing i said more than that huh? LMAO
your post completely fails again

So what’s your support of the doctrine that no one can judge whether or not someone is a Christian. I got my bible at hand now that I’m home, so throw me some scripture


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[Obscurity]

False comparison, pregnancy is not organ donation. Also there is no such thing as being forced to donate, if you are forced that action is not a donation.
Also not donating in Organ does not affirmatively kill a distinct being, Abortion


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It's an apt comparison. A woman does not have to give consent to the use of her organs. Why are you agreeing with authoritarianism and forcing women to give use of their organs to another "person."

 

[Obscurity]

So what’s your support of the doctrine that no one can judge whether or not someone is a Christian. I got my bible at hand now that I’m home, so throw me some scripture


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Scripture is irrelevant. You do not get to legislate faith. 1st amendment.

Do you think women should be refused the right to abort a rapist's fetus?

 

[AGENT J]

So what’s your support of the doctrine that no one can judge whether or not someone is a Christian. I got my bible at hand now that I’m home, so throw me some scripture


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the support is only God gets to make that call . .neither you nor I have the power too . . anything we feel is meaningless