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Who are the job creators? (1 Viewer)

JP Hochbaum

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The middle class that is who!

A must-read article by Amazon.com co-founder (and now billionaire) Nick Haneur on solving the wealth disparity, increasing middle-class incomes & why it's good --by showing how increased middle-class incomes increases spending (aka increased spending = increased demand), which is what really powers the economy --unless
you want revolutions as is common throughout history from Arab Spring to French, Russian, Chinese, Indonesian, Korean, Vietnamese, etc Revolutions

The Pitchforks Are Coming

excerpt page 2 (click all 4 short pages at bottom)

"What a great idea. My suggestion to you is: Let’s do it all over again. We’ve got to try something. These idiotic trickle-down policies are destroying my customer base. And yours too.
"...I wanted to try to change the conversation with ideas—by advancing what my co-author, Eric Liu, and I call “middle-out” economics.
It’s the long-overdue rebuttal to the trickle-down economics worldview that has become economic orthodoxy across party lines—and has so screwed the American middle class and our economy generally.

Middle-out economics rejects the old misconception that an economy is a perfectly efficient, mechanistic system and embraces the much more accurate idea of an economy as a complex ecosystem made up of real people who are dependent on one another.

Which is why the fundamental law of capitalism must be: If workers have more money, businesses have more customers.
Which makes middle-class consumers, not rich businesspeople like us, the true job creators.
Which means a thriving middle class is the source of American prosperity, not a consequence of it.
The middle class creates us rich people, not the other way around.

On June 19, 2013, Bloomberg published an article I wrote called “The Capitalist’s Case for a $15 Minimum Wage.” Forbes labeled it “Nick Hanauer’s near insane” proposal.
And yet, just weeks after it was published, my friend David Rolf, a Service Employees International Union organizer, roused fast-food workers to go on strike around the country for a $15 living wage.
Nearly a year later, the city of Seattle passed a $15 minimum wage.

And just 350 days after my article was published, Seattle Mayor Ed Murray signed that ordinance into law. How could this happen, you ask?
It happened because we reminded the masses that they are the source of growth and prosperity, not us rich guys.
We reminded them that when workers have more money, businesses have more customers—and need more employees.
We reminded them that if businesses paid workers a living wage rather than poverty wages, taxpayers wouldn’t have to make up the difference.
And when we got done, 74 percent of likely Seattle voters in a recent poll agreed that a $15 minimum wage was a swell idea.

The standard response in the minimum-wage debate, made by Republicans and their business backers and plenty of Democrats as well, is that raising the minimum wage costs jobs.
Businesses will have to lay off workers. This argument reflects the orthodox economics that most people had in college.
If you took Econ 101, then you literally were taught that if wages go up, employment must go down.
The law of supply and demand and all that. That’s why you’ve got John Boehner and other Republicans in Congress insisting that if you price employment higher, you get less of it. Really?
The thing about us businesspeople is that we love our customers rich and our employees poor.

Because here’s an odd thing. During the past three decades, compensation for CEOs grew 127 times faster than it did for workers.
Since 1950, the CEO-to-worker pay ratio has increased 1,000 percent, and that is not a typo. CEOs used to earn 30 times the median wage; now they rake in 500 times.
Yet no company I know of has eliminated its senior managers, or outsourced them to China or automated their jobs.
Instead, we now have more CEOs and senior executives than ever before. So, too, for financial services workers and technology workers.
These folks earn multiples of the median wage, yet we somehow have more and more of them.

The thing about us businesspeople is that we love our customers rich and our employees poor.
So for as long as there has been capitalism, capitalists have said the same thing about any effort to raise wages.
We’ve had 75 years of complaints from big business—when the minimum wage was instituted, when women had to be paid equitable amounts, when child labor laws were created.
Every time the capitalists said exactly the same thing in the same way: We’re all going to go bankrupt. I’ll have to close. I’ll have to lay everyone off. It hasn’t happened.
In fact, the data show that when workers are better treated, business gets better. The naysayers are just wrong.
Most of you probably think that the $15 minimum wage in Seattle is an insane departure from rational policy that puts our economy at great risk.
But in Seattle, our current minimum wage of $9.32 is already nearly 30 percent higher than the federal minimum wage. And has it ruined our economy yet?
Well, trickle-downers, look at the data here:
The two cities in the nation with the highest rate of job growth by small businesses are San Francisco and Seattle. Guess which cities have the highest minimum wage?
San Francisco and Seattle. The fastest-growing big city in America?
Seattle. Fifteen dollars isn’t a risky untried policy for us.
It’s doubling down on the strategy that’s already allowing our city to kick your city’s ass.

Read more: The Pitchforks Are Coming
 
The middle class that is who!

A must-read article by Amazon.com co-founder (and now billionaire) Nick Haneur on solving the wealth disparity, increasing middle-class incomes & why it's good --by showing how increased middle-class incomes increases spending (aka increased spending = increased demand), which is what really powers the economy --unless
you want revolutions as is common throughout history from Arab Spring to French, Russian, Chinese, Indonesian, Korean, Vietnamese, etc Revolutions

The Pitchforks Are Coming

excerpt page 2 (click all 4 short pages at bottom)

"What a great idea. My suggestion to you is: Let’s do it all over again. We’ve got to try something. These idiotic trickle-down policies are destroying my customer base. And yours too.
"...I wanted to try to change the conversation with ideas—by advancing what my co-author, Eric Liu, and I call “middle-out” economics.
It’s the long-overdue rebuttal to the trickle-down economics worldview that has become economic orthodoxy across party lines—and has so screwed the American middle class and our economy generally.

Middle-out economics rejects the old misconception that an economy is a perfectly efficient, mechanistic system and embraces the much more accurate idea of an economy as a complex ecosystem made up of real people who are dependent on one another.

Which is why the fundamental law of capitalism must be: If workers have more money, businesses have more customers.
Which makes middle-class consumers, not rich businesspeople like us, the true job creators.
Which means a thriving middle class is the source of American prosperity, not a consequence of it.
The middle class creates us rich people, not the other way around.

On June 19, 2013, Bloomberg published an article I wrote called “The Capitalist’s Case for a $15 Minimum Wage.” Forbes labeled it “Nick Hanauer’s near insane” proposal.
And yet, just weeks after it was published, my friend David Rolf, a Service Employees International Union organizer, roused fast-food workers to go on strike around the country for a $15 living wage.
Nearly a year later, the city of Seattle passed a $15 minimum wage.

And just 350 days after my article was published, Seattle Mayor Ed Murray signed that ordinance into law. How could this happen, you ask?
It happened because we reminded the masses that they are the source of growth and prosperity, not us rich guys.
We reminded them that when workers have more money, businesses have more customers—and need more employees.
We reminded them that if businesses paid workers a living wage rather than poverty wages, taxpayers wouldn’t have to make up the difference.
And when we got done, 74 percent of likely Seattle voters in a recent poll agreed that a $15 minimum wage was a swell idea.

The standard response in the minimum-wage debate, made by Republicans and their business backers and plenty of Democrats as well, is that raising the minimum wage costs jobs.
Businesses will have to lay off workers. This argument reflects the orthodox economics that most people had in college.
If you took Econ 101, then you literally were taught that if wages go up, employment must go down.
The law of supply and demand and all that. That’s why you’ve got John Boehner and other Republicans in Congress insisting that if you price employment higher, you get less of it. Really?
The thing about us businesspeople is that we love our customers rich and our employees poor.

Because here’s an odd thing. During the past three decades, compensation for CEOs grew 127 times faster than it did for workers.
Since 1950, the CEO-to-worker pay ratio has increased 1,000 percent, and that is not a typo. CEOs used to earn 30 times the median wage; now they rake in 500 times.
Yet no company I know of has eliminated its senior managers, or outsourced them to China or automated their jobs.
Instead, we now have more CEOs and senior executives than ever before. So, too, for financial services workers and technology workers.
These folks earn multiples of the median wage, yet we somehow have more and more of them.

The thing about us businesspeople is that we love our customers rich and our employees poor.
So for as long as there has been capitalism, capitalists have said the same thing about any effort to raise wages.
We’ve had 75 years of complaints from big business—when the minimum wage was instituted, when women had to be paid equitable amounts, when child labor laws were created.
Every time the capitalists said exactly the same thing in the same way: We’re all going to go bankrupt. I’ll have to close. I’ll have to lay everyone off. It hasn’t happened.
In fact, the data show that when workers are better treated, business gets better. The naysayers are just wrong.
Most of you probably think that the $15 minimum wage in Seattle is an insane departure from rational policy that puts our economy at great risk.
But in Seattle, our current minimum wage of $9.32 is already nearly 30 percent higher than the federal minimum wage. And has it ruined our economy yet?
Well, trickle-downers, look at the data here:
The two cities in the nation with the highest rate of job growth by small businesses are San Francisco and Seattle. Guess which cities have the highest minimum wage?
San Francisco and Seattle. The fastest-growing big city in America?
Seattle. Fifteen dollars isn’t a risky untried policy for us.
It’s doubling down on the strategy that’s already allowing our city to kick your city’s ass.

Read more: The Pitchforks Are Coming

This... is what irks me about the whole situation. Not that the wealthy are blinded by the simple fact that they're hurting their own source of wealth, but that half the general populace believes in their kaka.

I've shown in thread after thread, how if you support the middle class, they'll spend that money with the Retailers, who'll in turn make a profit back on their investment. It's simple math but people act like you're saying the devil is coming.
 
Evidence seems to be that Barack Obama and the Democrat liberal policies haven't created any new jobs except for non-American citizens.
 
Seems?
There is no such evidence or you would have linked it--as you normally do.
Do we now call this the "unseemly" card ?
Evidence seems to be that Barack Obama and the Democrat liberal policies haven't created any new jobs except for non-American citizens.
 
The whole idea of "job creator" is stupid, as if it is somehow altruistic to employ people. No, it's a transaction, and it's one in which the employer is getting more than the employee. It is a necessarily unfair transaction, where one side has wealth and bargaining power, and the other side only has their labor. And none of this should ever make us forget that if some "job creator" is cheating us too badly, he can be discarded and replaced. And should be. Preferably not violently, but it may come to that.
 
The middle class that is who!

A must-read article by Amazon.com co-founder (and now billionaire) Nick Haneur on solving the wealth disparity, increasing middle-class incomes & why it's good --by showing how increased middle-class incomes increases spending (aka increased spending = increased demand), which is what really powers the economy --unless
you want revolutions as is common throughout history from Arab Spring to French, Russian, Chinese, Indonesian, Korean, Vietnamese, etc Revolutions

The Pitchforks Are Coming

excerpt page 2 (click all 4 short pages at bottom)

"What a great idea. My suggestion to you is: Let’s do it all over again. We’ve got to try something. These idiotic trickle-down policies are destroying my customer base. And yours too.
"...I wanted to try to change the conversation with ideas—by advancing what my co-author, Eric Liu, and I call “middle-out” economics.
It’s the long-overdue rebuttal to the trickle-down economics worldview that has become economic orthodoxy across party lines—and has so screwed the American middle class and our economy generally.

Middle-out economics rejects the old misconception that an economy is a perfectly efficient, mechanistic system and embraces the much more accurate idea of an economy as a complex ecosystem made up of real people who are dependent on one another.

Which is why the fundamental law of capitalism must be: If workers have more money, businesses have more customers.
Which makes middle-class consumers, not rich businesspeople like us, the true job creators.
Which means a thriving middle class is the source of American prosperity, not a consequence of it.
The middle class creates us rich people, not the other way around.

On June 19, 2013, Bloomberg published an article I wrote called “The Capitalist’s Case for a $15 Minimum Wage.” Forbes labeled it “Nick Hanauer’s near insane” proposal.
And yet, just weeks after it was published, my friend David Rolf, a Service Employees International Union organizer, roused fast-food workers to go on strike around the country for a $15 living wage.
Nearly a year later, the city of Seattle passed a $15 minimum wage.

And just 350 days after my article was published, Seattle Mayor Ed Murray signed that ordinance into law. How could this happen, you ask?
It happened because we reminded the masses that they are the source of growth and prosperity, not us rich guys.
We reminded them that when workers have more money, businesses have more customers—and need more employees.
We reminded them that if businesses paid workers a living wage rather than poverty wages, taxpayers wouldn’t have to make up the difference.
And when we got done, 74 percent of likely Seattle voters in a recent poll agreed that a $15 minimum wage was a swell idea.

The standard response in the minimum-wage debate, made by Republicans and their business backers and plenty of Democrats as well, is that raising the minimum wage costs jobs.
Businesses will have to lay off workers. This argument reflects the orthodox economics that most people had in college.
If you took Econ 101, then you literally were taught that if wages go up, employment must go down.
The law of supply and demand and all that. That’s why you’ve got John Boehner and other Republicans in Congress insisting that if you price employment higher, you get less of it. Really?
The thing about us businesspeople is that we love our customers rich and our employees poor.

Because here’s an odd thing. During the past three decades, compensation for CEOs grew 127 times faster than it did for workers.
Since 1950, the CEO-to-worker pay ratio has increased 1,000 percent, and that is not a typo. CEOs used to earn 30 times the median wage; now they rake in 500 times.
Yet no company I know of has eliminated its senior managers, or outsourced them to China or automated their jobs.
Instead, we now have more CEOs and senior executives than ever before. So, too, for financial services workers and technology workers.
These folks earn multiples of the median wage, yet we somehow have more and more of them.

The thing about us businesspeople is that we love our customers rich and our employees poor.
So for as long as there has been capitalism, capitalists have said the same thing about any effort to raise wages.
We’ve had 75 years of complaints from big business—when the minimum wage was instituted, when women had to be paid equitable amounts, when child labor laws were created.
Every time the capitalists said exactly the same thing in the same way: We’re all going to go bankrupt. I’ll have to close. I’ll have to lay everyone off. It hasn’t happened.
In fact, the data show that when workers are better treated, business gets better. The naysayers are just wrong.
Most of you probably think that the $15 minimum wage in Seattle is an insane departure from rational policy that puts our economy at great risk.
But in Seattle, our current minimum wage of $9.32 is already nearly 30 percent higher than the federal minimum wage. And has it ruined our economy yet?
Well, trickle-downers, look at the data here:
The two cities in the nation with the highest rate of job growth by small businesses are San Francisco and Seattle. Guess which cities have the highest minimum wage?
San Francisco and Seattle. The fastest-growing big city in America?
Seattle. Fifteen dollars isn’t a risky untried policy for us.
It’s doubling down on the strategy that’s already allowing our city to kick your city’s ass.

Read more: The Pitchforks Are Coming
Koch Industries TV Commercial, 'We Are Koch' - iSpot.tv
 
The whole idea of "job creator" is stupid, as if it is somehow altruistic to employ people. No, it's a transaction, and it's one in which the employer is getting more than the employee. It is a necessarily unfair transaction, where one side has wealth and bargaining power, and the other side only has their labor. And none of this should ever make us forget that if some "job creator" is cheating us too badly, he can be discarded and replaced. And should be. Preferably not violently, but it may come to that.

You'd think business people would figure out the very workforce they employ is their best resource for sales? And whatever salary you pay is going to come back as profit from sales. As you said, they have the ability to make more profit off of the public than their employees can siphon back off them in wages.
 
The whole idea of "job creator" is stupid, as if it is somehow altruistic to employ people. No, it's a transaction, and it's one in which the employer is getting more than the employee. It is a necessarily unfair transaction, where one side has wealth and bargaining power, and the other side only has their labor. And none of this should ever make us forget that if some "job creator" is cheating us too badly, he can be discarded and replaced. And should be. Preferably not violently, but it may come to that.

I'll give you Gov. Walker's phone number so you can call him up and tell him he's a liar.

 
The middle class that is who!

A must-read article by Amazon.com co-founder (and now billionaire) Nick Haneur on solving the wealth disparity, increasing middle-class incomes & why it's good --by showing how increased middle-class incomes increases spending (aka increased spending = increased demand), which is what really powers the economy --unless
you want revolutions as is common throughout history from Arab Spring to French, Russian, Chinese, Indonesian, Korean, Vietnamese, etc Revolutions

The Pitchforks Are Coming

excerpt page 2 (click all 4 short pages at bottom)

"What a great idea. My suggestion to you is: Let’s do it all over again. We’ve got to try something. These idiotic trickle-down policies are destroying my customer base. And yours too.
"...I wanted to try to change the conversation with ideas—by advancing what my co-author, Eric Liu, and I call “middle-out” economics.
It’s the long-overdue rebuttal to the trickle-down economics worldview that has become economic orthodoxy across party lines—and has so screwed the American middle class and our economy generally.

Middle-out economics rejects the old misconception that an economy is a perfectly efficient, mechanistic system and embraces the much more accurate idea of an economy as a complex ecosystem made up of real people who are dependent on one another.

Which is why the fundamental law of capitalism must be: If workers have more money, businesses have more customers.
Which makes middle-class consumers, not rich businesspeople like us, the true job creators.
Which means a thriving middle class is the source of American prosperity, not a consequence of it.
The middle class creates us rich people, not the other way around.

On June 19, 2013, Bloomberg published an article I wrote called “The Capitalist’s Case for a $15 Minimum Wage.” Forbes labeled it “Nick Hanauer’s near insane” proposal.
And yet, just weeks after it was published, my friend David Rolf, a Service Employees International Union organizer, roused fast-food workers to go on strike around the country for a $15 living wage.
Nearly a year later, the city of Seattle passed a $15 minimum wage.

And just 350 days after my article was published, Seattle Mayor Ed Murray signed that ordinance into law. How could this happen, you ask?
It happened because we reminded the masses that they are the source of growth and prosperity, not us rich guys.
We reminded them that when workers have more money, businesses have more customers—and need more employees.
We reminded them that if businesses paid workers a living wage rather than poverty wages, taxpayers wouldn’t have to make up the difference.
And when we got done, 74 percent of likely Seattle voters in a recent poll agreed that a $15 minimum wage was a swell idea.

The standard response in the minimum-wage debate, made by Republicans and their business backers and plenty of Democrats as well, is that raising the minimum wage costs jobs.
Businesses will have to lay off workers. This argument reflects the orthodox economics that most people had in college.
If you took Econ 101, then you literally were taught that if wages go up, employment must go down.
The law of supply and demand and all that. That’s why you’ve got John Boehner and other Republicans in Congress insisting that if you price employment higher, you get less of it. Really?
The thing about us businesspeople is that we love our customers rich and our employees poor.

Because here’s an odd thing. During the past three decades, compensation for CEOs grew 127 times faster than it did for workers.
Since 1950, the CEO-to-worker pay ratio has increased 1,000 percent, and that is not a typo. CEOs used to earn 30 times the median wage; now they rake in 500 times.
Yet no company I know of has eliminated its senior managers, or outsourced them to China or automated their jobs.
Instead, we now have more CEOs and senior executives than ever before. So, too, for financial services workers and technology workers.
These folks earn multiples of the median wage, yet we somehow have more and more of them.

The thing about us businesspeople is that we love our customers rich and our employees poor.
So for as long as there has been capitalism, capitalists have said the same thing about any effort to raise wages.
We’ve had 75 years of complaints from big business—when the minimum wage was instituted, when women had to be paid equitable amounts, when child labor laws were created.
Every time the capitalists said exactly the same thing in the same way: We’re all going to go bankrupt. I’ll have to close. I’ll have to lay everyone off. It hasn’t happened.
In fact, the data show that when workers are better treated, business gets better. The naysayers are just wrong.
Most of you probably think that the $15 minimum wage in Seattle is an insane departure from rational policy that puts our economy at great risk.
But in Seattle, our current minimum wage of $9.32 is already nearly 30 percent higher than the federal minimum wage. And has it ruined our economy yet?
Well, trickle-downers, look at the data here:
The two cities in the nation with the highest rate of job growth by small businesses are San Francisco and Seattle. Guess which cities have the highest minimum wage?
San Francisco and Seattle. The fastest-growing big city in America?
Seattle. Fifteen dollars isn’t a risky untried policy for us.
It’s doubling down on the strategy that’s already allowing our city to kick your city’s ass.

Read more: The Pitchforks Are Coming

Consumers create jobs. Good jobs create more powerful consumers. Minimum wage earners are not the Middle Class. I believe in a two-tiered minimum wage; one for under 18, one for over. It's interesting that, with all of the economic stimulus done to save our economy in the last 6/7 years, the Federal minimum wage hasn't changed. Seems to me that would have been a no-brainer. Minimum-wage earners generally don't hide their money in mattresses -- they spend every dime.
 
Seems?
There is no such evidence or you would have linked it--as you normally do.
Do we now call this the "unseemly" card ?


All Employment Growth Since 2000 Went to Immigrants


>" According to a major new report from the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS), net employment growth in the United States since 2000 has gone entirely to immigrants, legal and illegal. Using data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, CIS scholars Steven A. Camarota and Karen Zeigler found that there were 127,000 fewer working-age natives holding a job in the first quarter of 2014 than in 2000, while the number of immigrants with a job was 5.7 million above the 2000 level.

The rapidity with which immigrants recovered from the Great Recession, as well as the fact that they held a disproportionate share of jobs relative to their share of population growth before the recession, help to explain their findings, the authors report. In addition, native-born Americans and immigrants were affected differently by the recession.

Other significant findings include:

•Because the native-born population grew significantly, but the number working actually fell, there were 17 million more working-age natives not working in the first quarter of 2014 than in 2000..."<

Link for the uninformed -> Study: All Employment Growth Since 2000 Went to Immigrants | National Review Online!

How to deal with this problem ?

More immigrants.

Announce to Central America, send your children to El Norte.

Amnesty, we need more Democrats.

Disband the Border Patrol, since they are native born, they shouldn't have a job.
 
1.) This topic has already been posted.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/economics/197946-pitchforks-coming-us-plutocrats.html

2.) The claim that it is the middle class, in-general, is false. They do not create the jobs.

Neither do businezs owners.

Jobs are a side effect of consumption facilitation.

Owners do not set out to create.jobs. The best business would have no employees.

So claiming that an undesireable consequence of doing business is some kind of altruistic activity for which they should be lauded is disingenuous. The kind of disingenuousness that makes PR a ten billion a year industry.

Henceforth, I call for calling them "consumption facitators", because that is a FAR more accurate moniker.

After all, we don't consider cars "road creators".
 
You'd think business people would figure out the very workforce they employ is their best resource for sales? And whatever salary you pay is going to come back as profit from sales. As you said, they have the ability to make more profit off of the public than their employees can siphon back off them in wages.

The problem is that globalization provides customers. Large management classes that had little or none of the "loadout" of stuff we do.

So they don't NEED us as consumers. Millions of new consumers makes up for us.

What does that Amazon guy know anyway. Has he ever run a business? Oh wait...
 
All Employment Growth Since 2000 Went to Immigrants


>" According to a major new report from the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS), net employment growth in the United States since 2000 has gone entirely to immigrants, legal and illegal. Using data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, CIS scholars Steven A. Camarota and Karen Zeigler found that there were 127,000 fewer working-age natives holding a job in the first quarter of 2014 than in 2000, while the number of immigrants with a job was 5.7 million above the 2000 level.

The rapidity with which immigrants recovered from the Great Recession, as well as the fact that they held a disproportionate share of jobs relative to their share of population growth before the recession, help to explain their findings, the authors report. In addition, native-born Americans and immigrants were affected differently by the recession.

Other significant findings include:

•Because the native-born population grew significantly, but the number working actually fell, there were 17 million more working-age natives not working in the first quarter of 2014 than in 2000..."<

Link for the uninformed -> Study: All Employment Growth Since 2000 Went to Immigrants | National Review Online!

How to deal with this problem ?

More immigrants.

Announce to Central America, send your children to El Norte.

Amnesty, we need more Democrats.

Disband the Border Patrol, since they are native born, they shouldn't have a job.

Wonder why if they know where they're working they don't just send immigration to round them up.

Charge $5000 a head in fines. Ahould solve the problem quickly.

Of course agribusiness is pretty conservative, so...
 
Wonder why if they know where they're working they don't just send immigration to round them up.

...

If you did that, enforcing our immigration laws that are already are on the books, that would mean we are a nation of laws and our immigration system wouldn't be broken.
 
The problem is that globalization provides customers. Large management classes that had little or none of the "loadout" of stuff we do.

So they don't NEED us as consumers. Millions of new consumers makes up for us.

What does that Amazon guy know anyway. Has he ever run a business? Oh wait...


Those are salient points but it doesn't consider that the US still has the largest GDP in the world and are the major retailers, like Auto, Insurance, Medical, Fast Food, Home Depot, Costco, Target, Walmart's, Apple etc biggest customers. Granted we've become more service oriented but as the other countries rise in their standard of living and wages, we'll soon be competitive again as producers and manufacturers.

Amazon and online retailers are taking a big slice of the pie also, without need for a large workforce, but again it doesn't account for all of the retail business.

The dynamics point to a healthy spending class of employees as a retailers biggest source of income and market share. If they create an impoverished, under employed population, they'll lose a lot of purchasers that simply couldn't afford anything but the basics. And because of that I expect commodities like rent/mortgage, gas, utilities, food and Internet/TV/Phone to continue and increase in prices.
 
If you did that, enforcing our immigration laws that are already are on the books, that would mean we are a nation of laws and our immigration system wouldn't be broken.

Ag business is one of the biggest users of illegal labor. Ag business is largely conservative. Yet supply side solutjons are rarely used.

Cheap labor outweighs cheap convictions, apparently.
 
Ag business is one of the biggest users of illegal labor. Ag business is largely conservative. Yet supply side solutjons are rarely used.

Cheap labor outweighs cheap convictions, apparently.

So you're trying to say that liberals would starve if it weren't for conservatives ?

If you say so.

Is there anywhere in the private sector where liberals are predominant ?
 
So you're trying to say that liberals would starve if it weren't for conservatives ?

If you say so.

Is there anywhere in the private sector where liberals are predominant ?

Apparently in those "tech job" fields we're all supposed to be moving into.

Don't get mad at me. Your guys came up with hiring illegal labor because they didn't want to pay American wages and then paid PR flacks to convince you to hate the illegals instead of those who hired them in the first place.

Cognitive dissonance hurts.

Good.
 
Apparently in those "tech job" fields we're all supposed to be moving into.

Don't get mad at me. Your guys came up with hiring illegal labor because they didn't want to pay American wages and then paid PR flacks to convince you to hate the illegals instead of those who hired them in the first place.

Cognitive dissonance hurts.

Good.

And your guys just want them to gang bang and collect welfare.
 
And your guys just want them to gang bang and collect welfare.

So since your guys create the jobs, being a "job creator" obviously isn't helping.

Illegal immigration is the fault of job creators.

/thread rerail.
 
More immigrants.

Announce to Central America, send your children to El Norte.

Amnesty, we need more Democrats.

Disband the Border Patrol, since they are native born, they shouldn't have a job.

Since you want to politicize every problem, which Presidente was it who gave amnesty in the 1980's?
Seems when it comes to Reagan, you guys are cafeteria Republicans with a real short memory, just like the American voter.

And during which Bush did the 2nd great wave enter the land of the great PX ?
 
Since upwards of 50% of Americans don't vote, just imagine if all of our gangbangers collecting welfare voted.
And your guys just want them to gang bang and collect welfare.
Which party do you suppose employs most of the immigrants, legal or illegal ?
 

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