• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Which Economic Evil is Worse?

Which Economic Evil is Worse?


  • Total voters
    37

The Giant Noodle

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 22, 2010
Messages
7,332
Reaction score
2,010
Location
Northern Illinois
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
--There are those that say welfare is laziness and sucking on the teet of the government.

--There are those that say corporate head honchos that earn over $175,000 a year that do little actual work and basically just show up for thier job on occasion is a crime. These people make sure the company is profitable generally at the expense of the "little guy".

--There are those who say the Unions that milk tax payers or corporations for more and more, thus making that company less and less efficient are the cancer in America.
 

Korimyr the Rat

Baby Eating Monster
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 1, 2006
Messages
19,550
Reaction score
15,754
Location
Cheyenne, WY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Yes. Thats the point. But choose which is the WORST! :)

Alright, if I have to pick I'm going to say the Corporate Elite. They're drinking our blood from every possible angle and from every segment of society, while the welfare queens and union bosses only have a handful of ways of screwing us.
 

tacomancer

Christian Capitalist Social Democrat
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
44,228
Reaction score
24,386
Location
Akron
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
--There are those that say welfare is laziness and sucking on the teet of the government.

Only a very small minority on welfare use it in an unfair way.

--There are those that say corporate head honchos that earn over $175,000 a year that do little actual work and basically just show up for thier job on occasion is a crime. These people make sure the company is profitable generally at the expense of the "little guy".

Most top employees actually work pretty hard and have crazy hours.

--There are those who say the Unions that milk tax payers or corporations for more and more, thus making that company less and less efficient are the cancer in America.

I have no problem whatsoever with people unionizing and making their work pay more.

My biggest concern are those that influence congress and distort the resolution of issues to their favor in detriment of the majority. If we did have such bad corruption (or campaign contributions), we would have much more sensible laws and a more responsive government I believe.
 

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
255,353
Reaction score
77,465
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Yes. Thats the point. But choose which is the WORST! :)

welfare because it creates dependency that is trans-generational. corporate elites tend to victimize shareholders who can move their investments. welfare parasites vote for more and more welfare pandering politicians and the malignancy spreads. I can avoid poorly run corporations with overpaid executives. I cannot avoid having to pay taxes for genderations of those addicted to entitlements
 

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
255,353
Reaction score
77,465
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Alright, if I have to pick I'm going to say the Corporate Elite. They're drinking our blood from every possible angle and from every segment of society, while the welfare queens and union bosses only have a handful of ways of screwing us.

I think that is clearly wrong. and most corporate executives are useful. people on welfare-some cannot help it-don't help America at all.
 

Korimyr the Rat

Baby Eating Monster
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 1, 2006
Messages
19,550
Reaction score
15,754
Location
Cheyenne, WY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
At least a corporation produces something, the other two produce nothing at all.

Sure. I don't have anything against corporations, just corporate executives who get nine figure bonuses for running companies into the ground. The rest of us have to eat what we kill.
 

earthworm

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
5,728
Reaction score
904
Location
Goldsboro,PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
I think that is clearly wrong. and most corporate executives are useful. people on welfare-some cannot help it-don't help America at all.

Turtle, did you ever think about these "useless welfare recipients"??
How do you think they feel about their situation??
Does mental depression come to mind?
 

MaggieD

Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
43,244
Reaction score
44,661
Location
Chicago Area
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
Yes. Thats the point. But choose which is the WORST! :)

Oh, definitely unions. In particular, unions in the public venue.

In private business unions are bargaining at the table with management while management keeps an eye on the bottom line. Make ridiculous demands? "No-Can-Do. Don't have the profits."

In the case of governmental unions, the bargaining takes place across the table from bureaucrats that have no vested interest in the outcomes. These disingenuous "negotiators" (ha!) give away the store and just say, "Hey! We gotta' raise taxes."

Puke.
 

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
255,353
Reaction score
77,465
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Sure. I don't have anything against corporations, just corporate executives who get nine figure bonuses for running companies into the ground. The rest of us have to eat what we kill.

how does that hurt you unless you are a shareholder

and being a major stockholder I agree that some executives are paid way too much-usually out of a sense of Ego from the board.

but letting the government or those who have no ownership interest in the company determine what is fair compensation is assinine.
 

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
255,353
Reaction score
77,465
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Oh, definitely unions. In particular, unions in the public venue.

In private business unions are bargaining at the table with management while management keeps an eye on the bottom line. Make ridiculous demands? "No-Can-Do. Don't have the profits."

In the case of governmental unions, the bargaining takes place across the table from bureaucrats that have no vested interest in the outcomes. These disingenuous "negotiators" (ha!) give away the store and just say, "Hey! We gotta' raise taxes."

Puke.

AFSCME and SEIU for example are two of the most putrid organizations going. trade unions serve a useful function-teaching a trade. AFSCME, like the NEA only protects the incompetent. SEIU are basically a hive of thugs and criminals.
 

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
255,353
Reaction score
77,465
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Turtle, did you ever think about these "useless welfare recipients"??
How do you think they feel about their situation??
Does mental depression come to mind?

not at all. I see people who are much like the junkies. I blame the pushers but I note that most addicts are weak. Its the poverty pimps who create many of the entitlement addicts.

some people cannot help themselves. but while they are not to blame they still are a drag on society. we have to take care of them but we certainly do not want to expand their numbers.
 

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
255,353
Reaction score
77,465
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
I'll take one word from one answer and another word from another answer and state my biggest evil - corporate welfare.

does corporate welfare expand on its own?
 

pbrauer

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
25,394
Reaction score
7,206
Location
Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
The corporate elite hands down. It used to be that corporations believed in America and American workers. Today the corporate board rooms are quick to ship America jobs overseas.
 

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
255,353
Reaction score
77,465
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
The corporate elite hands down. It used to be that corporations believed in America and American workers. Today the corporate board rooms are quick to ship America jobs overseas.

what silliness. corporate boards exist to make a company profitable. people like you clearly don't understand that so you whine about corporate actions that are based on your incorrect view of the entities rather than reality

its people who don't understand what corporations are about who drive them away.
 

Phoenix

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
1,808
Reaction score
622
Location
South Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
I picked other. The other being "Government" in general. Government programs completely distort the economic process without regards to unintended consequences. Fannie, Freddie, Community reinvestment act, Welfare, (to people and corps) TARP, Bailouts, takeover of private businesses, FDIC, Minimum Wage, importing lower than MW workers, I could go on...

Couple all this with a Federal Reserve led by politicians with no control what so ever and a fiat monetary system and chaos results.

The rest just trickles down.
 

digsbe

Truth will set you free
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
20,229
Reaction score
14,235
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
The unions. They are thugs who try to suck power and money away in the name of "standing up for the working class." They care about power, not about workers and the economy. Look at the American Auto Worker's Union. They are destroying America's Auto companies and refusing to compromise on benefits and pay (as it is, their pay and benefits is crazy). Also, look at the New Jersey teachers union, during economic times they refuse to take a temporary pay freeze and give around 1% of their salary to their benefits. Unions are the greatest economic evil among the 3.
 

winston53660

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
29,262
Reaction score
10,125
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The unions. They are thugs who try to suck power and money away in the name of "standing up for the working class." They care about power, not about workers and the economy. Look at the American Auto Worker's Union. They are destroying America's Auto companies and refusing to compromise on benefits and pay (as it is, their pay and benefits is crazy). Also, look at the New Jersey teachers union, during economic times they refuse to take a temporary pay freeze and give around 1% of their salary to their benefits. Unions are the greatest economic evil among the 3.


The Detroit Free Press reported that G.M.’s deal with the union called for 40 percent second-tier wage earners at Lake Orion, a percentage that’s considerably higher than the 25 percent allowed under terms of an agreement that goes into effect in 2015. Second-tier earners would make only about half of what the other hourly workers earn.
G.M. has not verified those numbers, but Ms. Normandin said that negotiations resulted in “a very, very competitive agreement.”
Garry Bernath, assistant director for the U.A.W. , said the union recognized that flexibility and cost improvement were paramount to keeping jobs in Michigan and the United States. “Competing in the global marketplace is critical to success,” he said.
A number of speakers at the Lake Orion press conference hailed the union agreement as a first for the auto industry in that it would make it possible to build small cars profitably in Michigan. Lake Orion Township and Oakland County also made concessions that helped convince the company to choose the Orion plant over other contenders.


G.M. to Build Small Cars in Lake Orion Plant - NYTimes.com

It seems the Unions are adjusting to the times fairly quickly.
 

rathi

Count Smackula
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 10, 2006
Messages
7,890
Reaction score
4,730
Location
California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Corporations are the worst, not because they are actually more evil, but simply because they have more power and can cause more damage. Sort of like how a violent sociopath with a gun is worse than a violent sociopath with a knife.
 

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
255,353
Reaction score
77,465
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Corporations are the worst, not because they are actually more evil, but simply because they have more power and can cause more damage. Sort of like how a violent sociopath with a gun is worse than a violent sociopath with a knife.

really? government has the most power so welfare-which is a government program must be the most evil.

and a psycho with a knife can kill silently.
 

rathi

Count Smackula
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 10, 2006
Messages
7,890
Reaction score
4,730
Location
California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
really? government has the most power so welfare-which is a government program must be the most evil.

Except the government is the one giving the money away, not benefiting from it. The welfare recipients are fairly weak. Corporations and unions have both considerable power and the ability to use that power to enrich themselves. I still wouldn't use the term evil, as I am judging based on who causes the most damage not on moral intent.

and a psycho with a knife can kill silently.

True, and unions sometimes can cause more harm than corporations. However, for the most part guns can cause more destruction than knives and corporations can cause more harm than unions.
 

Kandahar

Enemy Combatant
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 20, 2005
Messages
20,688
Reaction score
7,320
Location
Washington, DC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
--There are those that say welfare is laziness and sucking on the teet of the government.

I disagree. Most of the time, those who are making this claim are on some form of government welfare themselves. They typically just don't think of it as welfare. I think there is a lot of latent racism in debates on welfare; I've noticed that generally speaking, many white conservatives only think of a program as "welfare" if the primary recipients of it are minorities.

In any case, I don't think that most welfare recipients are lazy. Many people are temporarily laid off work, impoverished for reasons beyond their control (or only indirectly within their control), or hard at work at jobs that simply don't pay enough.

The Giant Noodle said:
--There are those that say corporate head honchos that earn over $175,000 a year that do little actual work and basically just show up for thier job on occasion is a crime. These people make sure the company is profitable generally at the expense of the "little guy".

I don't think so. Most corporations are motivated predominantly by turning a profit, which is fine. That's their reason for existing. While profit motives don't always coincide with social well-being, they very often do. There are some specific companies and industries where I am appalled by the shocking lack of ethics, justified by higher profits...but in general they are exceptions, not the rule. Most companies provide their workers with fair wages and their consumers with fair prices; if they didn't, market forces would bankrupt them.

The Giant Noodle said:
--There are those who say the Unions that milk tax payers or corporations for more and more, thus making that company less and less efficient are the cancer in America.

Yes. I can't stand unions...especially public sector unions. They are essentially anti-competitive monopolies on labor. They all make their organizations less efficient and profitable, and some of them go beyond that and actually harm the public good. The teachers' unions (lobbying to make it impossible to fire incompetent teachers) and the prison guards' unions (lobbying for tougher criminal penalties so they can employ more prison guards) are absolutely disgusting organizations.
 
Top Bottom