ThePlayDrive
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Clever? But from the OP : "Assume that all black Americans in the country today were the descendants of people who willingly immigrated to the United States under various conditions (some came b/c of war back home, others wanted a new experiences, etc.)."Change Other to "Still in Africa" and you would have a winner.
Assume that all black Americans in the country today were the descendants of people who willingly immigrated to the United States under various conditions (some came b/c of war back home, others wanted a new experiences, etc.).Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?
We obviously cannot answer this question definitively, but I would like people's thoughts on the matter regardless. Responding with "we can never really know", "there's just too many factors to come up with an answer" or similarly defeatist answers is not welcomed in this thread. This is a thought experiment, not a dissertation defense.
So, again, given the narratives you use to explain racial inequality, your perceptions of black Americans and other factors, where do you think that the black population in the United States would be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?* Would they have the same employment, education, crime and other rates as White Americans? Would they be in the same position they are in now?
*Note : I realize that not every black American in the United States is a descendant of slaves. This question addresses the ones that are. I hope that takes care of all the red herrings.
Clever? But from the OP : "Assume that all black Americans in the country today were the descendants of people who willingly immigrated to the United States under various conditions (some came b/c of war back home, others wanted a new experiences, etc.)."
Clever? But from the OP : "Assume that all black Americans in the country today were the descendants of people who willingly immigrated to the United States under various conditions (some came b/c of war back home, others wanted a new experiences, etc.)."
Change Other to "Still in Africa" and you would have a winner.
Source?Obviously very few (if any) blacks that came to the US as slaves would have come here any other way. Contrary to many folks view of the slave trade, those that wound up in the US were already enslaved and were simply relocated to where they commanded a higher price.
I don't think that's accurate. If there were labor needs and opportunities arose to voluntarily migrate with the promise of freedom, fair compensation, or the opportunity to strike out as poisoners; think many Africans would have willingly traveled here just like many Europeans willingly travelled here.
I can't look up a source right now but from what I understand, there are roughly as many Eurpoean Imigrants as there were Africans brought here by force but due to the harshness of slavery, the black American population did not live as long as did the population with European heritage and thus did not grow at the as me levels. That said, I agree there might not have been as many Africans who traveled here, with the absence of the cruelty of slavery, the rate as which black Americans families would have grown would likely to have given us a similar black American population.
I appreciate it when people feel free to think out loud but there's a angle about the rationale that smacks of insensitivity that would be more easily seen if applied to other groups. Example: a plausible argument could be made that modern Israel would not exist today had not world support for the Jewish people not been heightened in the wake of Hitler's cruel atrocities against them. I can't imagine anyone suggesting people should take a different look at the holocaust because "where would Israel be today if their ancestors had never been sent to concentration camps?"
Yeah, I don't get this attitude that Africans, unlike many Europeans, Asians and South Americans, would have just stayed in Africa.I don't think that's accurate. If there were labor needs and opportunities arose to voluntarily migrate with the promise of freedom, fair compensation, or the opportunity to strike out as poisoners; think many Africans would have willingly traveled here just like many Europeans willingly travelled here.
Ah, so black people should be grateful that their ancestors were subjected to brutal slavery that resulted in beating, rape, murder and other heinous crimes against humanity because now they get to have Big Macs. Awesome.The African Americans would be much worse off. They live in a superpower thanks to slavery. How many Africans would move from America to Africa? Not many I bet. So is America really so bad?
Source?
It is believed that the first African slaves were imported to the New World at the beginning of the 17th century and that the first slaves came from Senegambia and the Windward Coast.
Senegambia was a loosely defined region of West Africa that comprises the present-day nations of Senegal and The Gambia. Windward Coast is roughly the current country of Ivory Coast. This region also had a long history of supplying slaves to the Arab World.
Yes, you stated "those that wound up in the US were already enslaved and were simply relocated to where they commanded a higher price". This is inaccurate. While many Africans were sold to European and American slave traders, most of them were not already enslaved. They were free people who were kidnapped specifically to serve the needs of European and American slave traders.For what? I will assume my assertion that balck slaves were mostly bought from slave traders in Africa.
Where In Africa Did Slaves Come From?
EDIT: See also
Where Did Slaves Come From in Africa? Angola Is One Place - The Root
If you question how many of those blacks. already in the hands of slave traders, would have otherwise made it into the US then I will leave that to common sense.
Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved? Assume that all black Americans in the country today were the descendants of people who willingly immigrated to the United States under various conditions (some came b/c of war back home, others wanted a new experiences, etc.).
We obviously cannot answer this question definitively, but I would like people's thoughts on the matter regardless. Responding with "we can never really know", "there's just too many factors to come up with an answer" or similarly defeatist answers is not welcomed in this thread. This is a thought experiment, not a dissertation defense.
So, again, given the narratives you use to explain racial inequality, your perceptions of black Americans and other factors, where do you think that the black population in the United States would be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?* Would they have the same employment, education, crime and other rates as White Americans? Would they be in the same position they are in now?
*Note : I realize that not every black American in the United States is a descendant of slaves. This question addresses the ones that are. I hope that takes care of all the red herrings.
Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved? Assume that all black Americans in the country today were the descendants of people who willingly immigrated to the United States under various conditions (some came b/c of war back home, others wanted a new experiences, etc.).
We obviously cannot answer this question definitively, but I would like people's thoughts on the matter regardless. Responding with "we can never really know", "there's just too many factors to come up with an answer" or similarly defeatist answers is not welcomed in this thread. This is a thought experiment, not a dissertation defense.
So, again, given the narratives you use to explain racial inequality, your perceptions of black Americans and other factors, where do you think that the black population in the United States would be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?* Would they have the same employment, education, crime and other rates as White Americans? Would they be in the same position they are in now?
*Note : I realize that not every black American in the United States is a descendant of slaves. This question addresses the ones that are. I hope that takes care of all the red herrings.
Where would black Americans be if their ancestors had never been enslaved? Assume that all black Americans in the country today were the descendants of people who willingly immigrated to the United States under various conditions (some came b/c of war back home, others wanted a new experiences, etc.).
We obviously cannot answer this question definitively, but I would like people's thoughts on the matter regardless. Responding with "we can never really know", "there's just too many factors to come up with an answer" or similarly defeatist answers is not welcomed in this thread. This is a thought experiment, not a dissertation defense.
So, again, given the narratives you use to explain racial inequality, your perceptions of black Americans and other factors, where do you think that the black population in the United States would be if their ancestors had never been enslaved?* Would they have the same employment, education, crime and other rates as White Americans? Would they be in the same position they are in now?
*Note : I realize that not every black American in the United States is a descendant of slaves. This question addresses the ones that are. I hope that takes care of all the red herrings.
Yes, you stated "those that wound up in the US were already enslaved and were simply relocated to where they commanded a higher price". This is inaccurate. While many Africans were sold to European and American slave traders, most of them were not already enslaved. They were free people who were kidnapped specifically to serve the needs of European and American slave traders.
The majority of kidnapped Africans weren't already slaves in Africa. They were free people who were kidnapped to provide the labour that the European powers required to build their colonies in the Americas.
The transatlantic slave trade: introduction
Change Other to "Still in Africa" and you would have a winner.
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