Where are Christians getting their pro-life message from? The bible itself isn't even pro-life.

[RAMOSS]

Samson? You want to cite Samson, the suicide attacker, as a model of morality?

Isaiah 49.1 is not talking about Samson . It is even allegorical, and not even talking about a person.

Let's look at it in context.

1Hearken, you islands, to me, and listen closely, you nations, from afar; the Lord called me from the womb, from the innards of my mother He mentioned my name.

2And He made my mouth like a sharp sword, He concealed me in the shadow of His hand; and He made me into a polished arrow, He hid me in His quiver.

3And He said to me, "You are My servant, Israel, about whom I will boast."

As we can see, if we look at it in c ontext, the 'called me from the womb' entity is identified, as the nation of Israel.

This shows that the author of the 'righter report' is , well, very uneducated.

 

[tosca1]

Where are Christians getting their pro-life message from? The bible itself isn't even pro-life. Christians need to start being honest with themselves and admit the pro-life movement was NEVER about life, but about punishment of those considered sexually immoral, specifically women.​

According to Exodus 21:22-25:

The bible clearly suggests a fetus is not a human being, nor is killing it murder, because the penalty for killing a fetus is less than the penalty for killing an actual person. That's pro-choice, not pro-life, because the bible here is clearly saying abortion is not murder.
The Christian pro-life movement was never about life given the bible is not even pro-life itself. Instead it's about punishment. They want immoral (i.e. sexually active) people punished for not being as sexually restrained as they are.
Christians are obsessed with punishment, specifically punishment of women. Men do not suffer any immediate or personal consequences because of pregnancy, so are exempt. Men only have responsibilities that may be legally required after birth. This makes the pro-life movement a deeply misogynist and anti-life one (since they want to ruin the lives of the women making choices the Christian pro-lifers disapprove of).

We're back to Exodus again?

You guys better learn to comprehend what you read.
This verse isn't all just about the woman!


Exodus 21
22 “Now if people struggle with each other and strike a pregnant woman so that she gives birth prematurely, but there is no injury, the guilty person shall certainly be fined
as the woman’s husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide.

23 But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life,
24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.


The focus is the condition of the woman. She is PREGNANT! Which means, she's carrying a life in her.

What life is being talked about here? The fetus, the woman, or both!
If either one of them dies - life for a life!

 

[Spunkylama]

We're back to Exodus again?

You guys better learn to comprehend what you read.


Exodus 21
22 “Now if people struggle with each other and strike a pregnant woman so that she gives birth prematurely, but there is no injury, the guilty person shall certainly be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him,
and he shall pay as the judges decide.
23 But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life,
24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.


The focus is the condition of the woman. She is PREGNANT! Which means, she's carrying a life in her.
What life is being talked about here? The fetus, the woman, or both!
If either one of them dies - life for a life!

Okay, let's say this is how Christians interpret it. Do you believe that non Christians should be forced to live by your holy book?

 

[tosca1]

Okay, let's say this is how Christians interpret it. Do you believe that non Christians should be forced to live by your holy book?

Lol - that's how it is stated!

You should ask secular pro-lifers why they're pro-life.


Here:


You don’t have to be religious to have a problem with killing humans.
We welcome pro-life activists, closeted pro-lifers, people on the fence, and anyone interested in exploring the secular arguments against abortion.

Welcome - Secular Pro-Life

secularprolife.org

 

[Daisy]

So you believe that if a mother aborts a fetus she should be put to death?

You are talking about 2 separate things...what I believe is moral and what secular law says...she will have to answer to God one day...

 

[Spunkylama]

You are talking about 2 separate things...what I believe is moral and what secular law says...she will have to answer to God one day...

So why not let women (general) live their lives and you can hope that they answer to God one day? Why isn't that enough?

 

[Daisy]

So why not let women (general) live their lives and you can hope that they answer to God one day? Why isn't that enough?

Who says I don't?

 

[tosca1]

So why not let women (general) live their lives and you can hope that they answer to God one day? Why isn't that enough?

That's like saying, why not let nazis go on killing Jews and gays and disabled................................or, let slavers have their black slaves. And hope they answer to God someday? Why isn't that enough?


Someone has to speak or fight for those who can't defend themselves.

 

[Indlib]

Lol - that's how it is stated!

You should ask secular pro-lifers why they're pro-life.


Here:


You don’t have to be religious to have a problem with killing humans.
We welcome pro-life activists, closeted pro-lifers, people on the fence, and anyone interested in exploring the secular arguments against abortion.

Welcome - Secular Pro-Life

secularprolife.org

But religious or secular...we should support constitutional rights...correct?

 

[EdwinWillers]

So you believe that if a mother aborts a fetus she should be put to death?

My punishment for her would be to have to dry to decipher the logic in your OP.

 

[Josie]

....​

Where does your idea that a newborn baby can't be killed because the mother doesn't want him/her come from?

 

[EdwinWillers]

I certainly am no expert on the Bible but doesn't it have a recipe for abortion to use in certain situations?

Read Numbers 5:11-31 - this is the passage some claim is talking about your "recipe for abortion."

What it IS talking about is a test for adultery, where the man believes his wife may have been unfaithful - the gist of the test being having the woman drink some holy water mixed with dust from the floor of the tabernacle and if it causes her stomach to swell and her thigh to waste away then she failed the test. And if she doesn't fail the test, then she's to be considered faithful and will be free to conceive children.

Note that the test has nothing to do with being pregnant - indeed, if the concoction she drank were some sort of ancient RU486 precurser, then it would've aborted her child regardless her innocence or guilt - hardly a fair test.

Moreover, she drinks the concoction - it goes into her stomach, not her womb, and causes her stomach (or abdomen - the two are used interchangeably), not her womb to swell. And what the thigh wasting away has to do with abortion is anyone's guess.

So no, there's no "recipe for abortion" in the bible.

 

[Spunkylama]

Where does your idea that a newborn baby can't be killed because the mother doesn't want him/her come from?

You mean murder? Yeah there are laws against killing newborns.

 

[Spunkylama]

That's like saying, why not let nazis go on killing Jews and gays and disabled................................or, let slavers have their black slaves. And hope they answer to God someday? Why isn't that enough?


Someone has to speak or fight for those who can't defend themselves.

Those are already born persons and we have laws against killing people. That's why..

 

[Josie]

You mean murder? Yeah there are laws against killing newborns.

So? There are also laws against killing unborn humans. Do you agree with every law written?

 

[Spunkylama]

So? There are also laws against killing unborn humans. Do you agree with every law written?

No, row vs wade. It's protected for now. I agree that people should follow the law or face the consequences. There are some crazy laws on the books from years ago that should be done away with but that is a different topic.

 

[Josie]

No, row vs wade. It's protected for now. I agree that people should follow the law or face the consequences. There are some crazy laws on the books from years ago that should be done away with but that is a different topic.

Why are you against killing a newborn baby? Just because it's a law? What if it was legal? Would you still be against it?

 

[Spunkylama]

Why are you against killing a newborn baby? Just because it's a law? What if it was legal? Would you still be against it?

Why am I against it? How many children and when to have them is the choice of my husband and I and nobody else. I won't tell other people what to do based on my faith or lack thereof. It's rude to do so. What if abortion was legal? It is.

 

[Josie]

Why am I against it? How many children and when to have them is the choice of my husband and I and nobody else. I won't tell other people what to do based on my faith or lack thereof. It's rude to do so. What if abortion was legal? It is.

You didn't answer the question. If it was legal to kill newborn babies, would you be against it?

 

[Spunkylama]

Why am I against killing newborns?! What the actual ****? Because I'm not a crazy person?!
What kind of messed up question is that?

 

[Josie]

Why am I against killing newborns?! What the actual ****? Because I'm not a crazy person?!
What kind of messed up question is that?

Now you understand why some people are against most abortions. It's absolutely disgusting and repulsive to be for it. What kind of messed up laws are those?

 

[Spunkylama]

You didn't answer the question. If it was legal to kill newborn babies, would you be against it?

I don't want to have to put you on ignore, but will if I must. You cannot be serious with that question and honestly it was disgusting.

 

[Josie]

I don't want to have to put you on ignore, but will if I must. You cannot be serious with that question and honestly it was disgusting.

Yes, it was disgusting.

 

[Spunkylama]

I will not entertain the notion that abortion is the same as killing a baby which is alive. It's not the same and the laws agree with me. The end

 

[Spunkylama]

Yes, it was disgusting.

So stop. Control yourself