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When Will Democrats Wake Up???

ttwtt78640 said:
You confuse the demorat's voluntary acceptance of some GOP ideas with republicants giving ZERO votes for PPACA as making them responsible for its content.
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Actually, you're right. Obama and Dems showed good faith by offering to meet the Repubs half way. Coming in the midst of a financial crisis it was natural to think that all of America would want to come together to meet problems.

The Repubs could have embraced them back, but by this time they had determined to drag their heels and oppose the President during a crisis in an effort to ruin his reputation and take back the White House in 2012. It's actually amazing just how vindictive and petty the strategy was.

So it was pre-ordained by the Repubs themselves that even if Obama gave them 90% of what they wanted they would fight it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/25/robert-draper-anti-obama-campaign_n_1452899.html

WASHINGTON -- As President Barack Obama was celebrating his inauguration at various balls, top Republican lawmakers and strategists were conjuring up ways to submarine his presidency at a private dinner in Washington.

The event -- which provides a telling revelation for how quickly the post-election climate soured -- serves as the prologue of Robert Draper's much-discussed and heavily-reported new book, "Do Not Ask What Good We Do: Inside the U.S. House of Representatives."

According to Draper, the guest list that night (which was just over 15 people in total) included Republican Reps. Eric Cantor (Va.), Kevin McCarthy (Calif.), Paul Ryan (Wis.), Pete Sessions (Texas), Jeb Hensarling (Texas), Pete Hoekstra (Mich.) and Dan Lungren (Calif.), along with Republican Sens. Jim DeMint (S.C.), Jon Kyl (Ariz.), Tom Coburn (Okla.), John Ensign (Nev.) and Bob Corker (Tenn.). The non-lawmakers present included Newt Gingrich, several years removed from his presidential campaign, and Frank Luntz, the long-time Republican wordsmith. Notably absent were Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) -- who, Draper writes, had an acrimonious relationship with Luntz.

For several hours in the Caucus Room (a high-end D.C. establishment), the book says they plotted out ways to not just win back political power, but to also put the brakes on Obama's legislative platform.

"If you act like you're the minority, you're going to stay in the minority," Draper quotes McCarthy as saying. "We've gotta challenge them on every single bill and challenge them on every single campaign.
 
Kobie said:
They shouldn't have watered the bill down to appeal to Republicans then, who weren't going to vote for it anyway.
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Exactly. They should have passed some kind of single payer version. Medicare for everybody who wants it, essentially. It would have been embraced by every thinking American, which of course doesn't include any Republicans.
 
head of joaquin said:
Exactly. They should have passed some kind of single payer version. Medicare for everybody who wants it, essentially. It would have been embraced by every thinking American, which of course doesn't include any Republicans.
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Or, at the very least, the public option, the fate of which lies more in the hands of conservative Democrats (i.e. Nelson) than the GOP.
 
Kobie said:
Or, at the very least, the public option, the fate of which lies more in the hands of conservative Democrats (i.e. Nelson) than the GOP.
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Indeed, I think making it optional would have been appropriate given where we are as a country. Then if the Blue Dog democrats voted against it, at least we would know where they stood. Against progress. At some point Democrats have to clean house and determine what they really stand for. We know what the GOP stands for: revanchism and knownothingism.
 
The Cat said:
& that in a nutshell is liberal logic right there. We know what's good for you & what you want doesn't really matter because we are smarter than the "common man".

That is of course unless the people elect Dems to office.......then the people are brilliant & thoughtful & forward thinking! LOL, you guys really make me laugh.......& cry sometimes.
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You just made all that nonsense up.... figments of your own faux ideologically fueled imagination.
 
The Cat said:
& that in a nutshell is liberal logic right there. We know what's good for you & what you want doesn't really matter because we are smarter than the "common man".

That is of course unless the people elect Dems to office.......then the people are brilliant & thoughtful & forward thinking! LOL, you guys really make me laugh.......& cry sometimes.
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Jesus man, you apparently don't know how representative democracy works. More evidence of tea party knownothingism. And the inability to discuss a topic on the merits.
 
Kobie said:
Wrong.

Obama embraces some GOP health care proposals - CNN.com

Obama expresses interest in four GOP healthcare ideas - Los Angeles Times
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How absolutely absurd.

You're a great example of the typical desperate liberal trying to sidestep responsibillity for whats going to go down in History as the worst most economically destructive law to ever be signed by a President.

You offer up OBAMA'S opinions of concessions as proof the GOP had a stakein the bill's creation.

How dishonest can you possibly be ? Unbelievable.

If it were up to you people the law over time as the laws destructive effects took hold ( more than they already have ) it would morph into a Republican creation totally.

Well thank God there's at least some honest people left in America.

How many Republicans voted for the final monstrosity ??
 
Fenton said:
Thats a ridiculous contradictory statement.

The Republicans had ZERO input or influence in the passing of Obamacare.

This is a Democrat creation and failure and Conservatives and Republicans tried you people.
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Not true the individual mandate was their idea!!
 
Slyfox696 said:
If this country did not want Obamacare, they would have voted for Romney.
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Not really, Obamacare was not yet enacted. Now the more they hear and find out about it and what it is costing the taxpayer and jobs they hate it. Anyone hanging their coattails on Obamacare is going down. Obamacare is just now going into effect in October and now you are hearing about the negative results of Obamacare. In your face negatives, Unions hate it, medical institutions hate it, employers hate it, Joe on the street hate it. In the bill you can stay on your parents insurance until your 26, yet it's the young people that have to buy into the exchanges to fund for the older generation. Guess what the younger generation is insured under their parents insurance. Obamacare is going to cost the tax payer big time. It's all now coming into focus. Its was no in the peoples focus as it is now, and not even a issue when Romney running for president.
 
head of joaquin said:
Then vote to repeal it. Meantime stop supporting an unconstitutional attempt to defund a law no the books.

But of course, you don't have the votes to repeal it. So much for your dishonest argument.
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The one good thing about congress is they can fund or not fund anything they want. And Obamacare is a democrat nightmare. Bush had nothing to do with Obamacare so you have no out except to own it. It's all yours. And it's a ****ing disaster, of course anything democrats do is a disaster. Hell look at Obamarecovery, Obamajobs, Obamacare, Obamakill jobs, Obamakill coal jobs. Obamakill is all about killing jobs. Liberals have never been about the middle class, never. A perfect example of that is Obama, how better off is the middle class and the black community under Obama? Let me tell you they are worse off, lower wages and higher unemployment. This is your Anointed One
 
head of joaquin said:
Exactly. They should have passed some kind of single payer version. Medicare for everybody who wants it, essentially. It would have been embraced by every thinking American, which of course doesn't include any Republicans.
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Single payer, yeah, more dependence on big daddy government. Free stuff is great, the more free stuff is better than less free stuff. Right? So the more free stuff you get the better you are off. Right? So a free car is better than one you have to pay for. Right? A free house is better than one you have to pay for. Right? I mean how can you ague against free everything?

Oh wait who is funding all this free stuff? Could that be people who actually work? Who you tax to get your free stuff. The problem is the more you champion free stuff the more people engage in the free stuff you support. And the result is less hard working tax payers. So in the end the system collapses, like Greece. But of course that will never happen to you. You are smarter than them. You are only greedy to a point and only want free stuff that will not completely break the system, meaning you will take every dime a person makes and only give back to them to live as you do on the free stuff. In the end all people are equal weather you work or not.

Interesting concept. However I think that has already been tried and failed. Do you know that?
 
digsbe said:
Right now I'm just a second year Pharm.D. student (P2). I've worked as a pharmacy tech/pharmacist intern for 2 years and have had several rotations so far in pharmacy school ranging from regular community pharmacies to clinics, compounding pharmacies, and most recently a hospital. My preceptor was the pharmacy manager for the hospital and in the hospital all of their staff pharmacists are hybrid staff/clinical so I got to see both sides of the coin. In nearly every area I've worked and rotated through the practitioners from various disciplines (nursing, physicians, PA/NP, and pharmacists) do not have a favorable view of the law. Some of my professors do though and have shared why they think that way. I'm by no means an expert, but I have seen some diverse experiences so far and have talked with various healthcare providers and heard their views on it. I know the hospitals in my area are making big cuts and those in administration roles are not happy with the changes. As I said, it appears to be at least for hospitals a very upsetting thing to have no to minimal payment for readmissions and the hospitals essentially being graded under grounds of "customer satisfaction." If the hospital food isn't to a patient's liking they can rate them as lower and thus the hospital and healthcare staff will get less payment for their services by the insurance companies and government paying systems. If a patient has a heart attack, goes home and doesn't take their meds after discharge and comes back for angina or other problems they will blame this on the hospital and consider it a readmission that they won't be paid for but will have to be forced to provide care for.
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Wow. It's amazing that politicians aren't advised of the secondary and tertiary effects of their actions. You would think that they would have a working group of leaders in the industry advise them on such things. I just don't understand how our elected officials, of both parties, aren't more educated on what they vote on. However, when gov't is as big and far reaching as ours is, it would almost be inhuman if they did know it all I guess.:shrug:
 
Fenton said:
How many Republicans voted for the final monstrosity ??
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None. I wonder why.



If you're referring to the Republicans as the "honest people," you're unbelievably gullible.
 
Kobie said:
None. I wonder why.




If you're referring to the Republicans as the "honest people," you're unbelievably gullible.
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I'm not the gullible one here. I'm not the one trying to mitigate the effects of a law by lying about who supported it.

And I was never taken in by the plattitudes and bumper sticker slogans that got our current President elected.

I knew he would be an absolute disaster.

I wasnt taken in by the lies and false narratives about the previous President, and I'm not taken in by the perpetual excuses and blame that have defined this President and the party he represents.

He only "inherited " what the democrats constructed as far as a economy in free fall, and because of his incompetence has made things exponentially worse.

I could have given you a fairly accurate analysis in 2008 of how what he and the Democrats were going to do to our economy so I wasn't the gullible one.

The millions of low information voters who were so lacking any intelect that they actually believed anything that a democrat was saying are the gullible ones.
 
Fenton said:
He only "inherited " what the democrats constructed as far as a economy in free fall, and because of his incompetence has made things exponentially worse.
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I'll ignore the rest of your steaming pile of a post and address this ...

1. Are you claiming that the economic collapse was all the fault of the Democrats? That's patently absurd.

2. Are you claiming that the economy is "exponentially worse" than it was the day Obama took office? That's just stupid.
 
Passing Obamacare was never about what the country wanted. it was about what they could snake through congress with a majority house, senate and WH and what they could use as a ploy to get reelected. Most that voted for it never bothered to read it.

The BEST thing the republicans could have done politically is FORCED compliance with the public AND corporate mandate and let people see for themselves just how much this is going to hurt jobs and the economy. What they are doing now will cost them probably the house and most likely the WH in 2016.
 
Kobie said:
I'll ignore the rest of your steaming pile of a post and address this ...

1. Are you claiming that the economic collapse was all the fault of the Democrats? That's patently absurd.

2. Are you claiming that the economy is "exponentially worse" than it was the day Obama took office? That's just stupid.
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Nice framing of an evasive point ... let's put it this way, after a 5 year slog through a recovery that ain't happening, yes, the situation we're in is their fault.
 
VanceMack said:
Passing Obamacare was never about what the country wanted. it was about what they could snake through congress with a majority house, senate and WH and what they could use as a ploy to get reelected. Most that voted for it never bothered to read it.

The BEST thing the republicans could have done politically is FORCED compliance with the public AND corporate mandate and let people see for themselves just how much this is going to hurt jobs and the economy. What they are doing now will cost them probably the house and most likely the WH in 2016.
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Now you be fair, it's also the initial step toward nirvana for them.
 
bubbabgone said:
Nice framing of an evasive point ... let's put it this way, after a 5 year slog through a recovery that ain't happening, yes, the situation we're in is their fault.
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Bullcrap. To insist that one party and one party only deserves 100% of the blame for the economic collapse is so utterly asinine as to defy all logic.
 
Kobie said:
Bullcrap. To insist that one party and one party only deserves 100% of the blame for the economic collapse is so utterly asinine as to defy all logic.
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Serious recessions don't take 5 years to recover from and Obama &his Party had free rein for the first 2 years.
So, effectively, we're trying to recover from the Obama recovery.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Congress critters care about two, very closely related, things: campaign cash and getting re-elected. In the 2012 elections 92% of our congress critters got re-elected even with congressional popularity ratings only slightly above roadkill - polls mean nothing, elections mean everything.
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Its really funny how everyone seems to hate Congress, yet love their Congressman/woman. Its like they say, no raindrop thinks its responsible for the flood.
 
So, I see many don't like Obamacare and I see mention of it's not what people want. Of course, nobody even understands it so I don't know how you can e for or against it but assuming you're against it.....

What do people want instead? I'm genuinely curious because nobody comes up with anything beyond single payer. Obviously THAT idea never flew. So, what do "the American people" want to see happen if Obamacare got cancelled?


DISCLAIMER: I'm on Medicare and thus have no cat in this race. Just an inquiring mind, roaming free..
 
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