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When Russian news and Ukrainian news contradict each other, who do you tend to believe?

When Russian news and Ukrainian news contradict each other, who do you tend to believe?

  • the Ukrainian side

    Votes: 47 77.0%

  • Putin's side

    Votes: 4 6.6%

  • I am not sure

    Votes: 2 3.3%

  • other

    Votes: 8 13.1%
  • Total voters
    61
Rumpel said:
Well said! :)
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If you think that it's because you too haven't a clue what is going on in Ukraine wrt ongoing widespread corruption
 
oneworld2 said:
They are still corrupt today and have been since the year dot. To try to make out that the corruption ending with the US backed overthrow of Yanukovych is just plain rubbish
Click to expand...

Corruption is less since he was thrown out by the Ukrainian people.
 
I put other. As a rule, I don’t believe either side for the first week or so. Propaganda is a war tactic and all use it. After I research it, if I can’t find anything to confirm it, I’ll tend to believe Ukraine’s side of the story, as Russia is notorious for false propaganda.
 
Aristaeus said:
Corruption is less since he was thrown out by the Ukrainian people.
Click to expand...

Well at least you have been forced to acknowledge that Ukrainian corruption is still rampant and never ended with the ouster of Yanukovych. They have climbed about 20 places in recent years from around the 140th most corrupt country in th world to around the 120th most corrupt country in the world out of around 180 countries on the index

And he was thrown out by the people in the West of Ukraine, the people in the east never accepted the choices installed by Nuland and co. They never took part in elections since

Accuracy matters
 
oneworld2 said:
Well at least you have been forced to acknowledge that Ukrainian corruption is still rampant and never ended with the ouster of Yanukovych. They have climbed about 20 places in recent years from around the 140th most corrupt country in th world to around the 120th most corrupt country in the world out of around 180 countries on the index

And he was thrown out by the people in the West of Ukraine, the people in the east never accepted the choices installed by Nuland and co. They never took part in elections since

Accuracy matters
Click to expand...

You think a new government can end corruption overnight?
It takes time, but Ukraine is becoming less corrupt while Russia is more corrupt and getting worse.

Yanukovych was ousted by the Ukrainian people. If his supporters can't deal with that, that's their problem. Trump supporters never accepted the 2020 election, it happens.

Nuland never installed anyone; Poroshenko was voted into power via an election.
 
oneworld2 said:
Well at least you have been forced to acknowledge that Ukrainian corruption is still rampant and never ended with the ouster of Yanukovych. They have climbed about 20 places in recent years from around the 140th most corrupt country in th world to around the 120th most corrupt country in the world out of around 180 countries on the index

And he was thrown out by the people in the West of Ukraine, the people in the east never accepted the choices installed by Nuland and co. They never took part in elections since

Accuracy matters
Click to expand...

Putin propaganda.
 
Aristaeus said:
You think a new government can end corruption overnight?
It takes time, but Ukraine is becoming less corrupt while Russia is more corrupt and getting worse.

Yanukovych was ousted by the Ukrainian people. If his supporters can't deal with that, that's their problem. Trump supporters never accepted the 2020 election, it happens.

Nuland never installed anyone; Poroshenko was voted into power via an election.
Click to expand...

Your initial comment about Ukrainian corruption was/is inaccurate and gave a false impression

No, Yanukovych was ousted by the people of western Ukraine only. Trump suppoters never accepted the results but they never overthrew the elected govt. You are supporting those that did in Ukraine

I'm not talking about Poroshenko, I am talking about the interim ( post coup) Prime Minister post which was given to their man,

Arseniy Yatsenyuk​


from the leaked phone call

Nuland: [Breaks in] I think Yats is the guy who's got the economic experience, the governing experience. He's the... what he needs is Klitsch and Tyahnybok on the outside. He needs to be talking to them four times a week, you know. I just think Klitsch going in... he's going to be at that level working for Yatseniuk, it's just not going to work.
Click to expand...


www.bbc.co.uk

Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call

A transcript of the alleged conversation between Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and the US ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt discussing the crisis in Ukraine.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 
oneworld2 said:
Your initial comment about Ukrainian corruption was/is inaccurate and gave a false impression

No, Yanukovych was ousted by the people of western Ukraine only. Trump suppoters never accepted the results but they never overthrew the elected govt. You are supporting those that did in Ukraine

I'm not talking about Poroshenko, I am talking about the interim ( post coup) Prime Minister post which was given to their man,

Arseniy Yatsenyuk​


from the leaked phone call




www.bbc.co.uk

Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call

A transcript of the alleged conversation between Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and the US ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt discussing the crisis in Ukraine.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...

The majority of Ukrainians wanted closer ties to Europe, not Russia. The majority of Ukrainians wanted Yanukovych out.
Not everyone was pleased, but most Ukrainians were.
 
Hamish Howl said:
This one is easy. Zelenski I take with a grain of salt, because he's going to do whatever it takes to get the help he needs.

And Putin lies when the truth is easier.

So I listen to Zelenski.
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To vary an old saying:

"How can you tell that Putin is lying?" - "When he opens his mouth!" :)
 
jpevans said:
The fact that there is little to no international access to Russia by news orgs. says that they don't want fair coverage. That they shut down international social media to their citizens tells the tale, IMO.
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The highlighted portion of your post speaks volumes.

Dictators and despots don't allow the impartial flow of information.

This is the tool of those that lie intending to deceive and control.

Cancel or suppress the ideas that might impede the conclusions authorities wish to advance.

That is why the suppression of information by the cabal of media that is occurring in the US today is so worrisome.
 
Aristaeus said:
The majority of Ukrainians wanted closer ties to Europe, not Russia. The majority of Ukrainians wanted Yanukovych out.
Not everyone was pleased, but most Ukrainians were.
Click to expand...

So, it's interesting to look at what you have dropped since the opening

That corruption was a Yanukovych thing only, clearly not true

That Nuland and Pyatt were caught out discussing which coupster should fill what function in the interim ( read coupster ) govt and you mistakenly thought I was referring to Poroshenko. So yep, US meddling , big time, in Ukrainian coup

That the Trumpers never accepted the election and will have to " deal with it" but the Ukrainians didn't have to " deal with it" because, unlike the trumpers, they overthrew the elected leadership and you support that. Mind blowing hypocrisy on that alone.

You don't actually know whether the " majority of Ukrainians" wanted Yanukovych out. We can only go on the last election result, same as with the US Trumpers situation, and the fact remains that Yanukovych won that election. They might have just accepted a uturn on the EU deal but that wasn't allowed because the coupsters wanted the coup, they didn't want any legal/nonviolent exchange of power
 
oneworld2 said:
So, it's interesting to look at what you have dropped since the opening

That corruption was a Yanukovych thing only, clearly not true

That Nuland and Pyatt were caught out discussing which coupster should fill what function in the interim ( read coupster ) govt and you mistakenly thought I was referring to Poroshenko. So yep, US meddling , big time, in Ukrainian coup

That the Trumpers never accepted the election and will have to " deal with it" but the Ukrainians didn't have to " deal with it" because, unlike the trumpers, they overthrew the elected leadership and you support that. Mind blowing hypocrisy on that alone.

You don't actually know whether the " majority of Ukrainians" wanted Yanukovych out. We can only go on the last election result, same as with the US Trumpers situation, and the fact remains that Yanukovych won that election. They might have just accepted a uturn on the EU deal but that wasn't allowed because the coupsters wanted the coup, they didn't want any legal/nonviolent exchange of power
Click to expand...

Recycled post of Putin propaganda.
 
Rumpel said:
When Russian news and Ukrainian news contradict each other, who do you tend to believe?
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Both sides are fighting an information war, but Zelenskyy and the UA's information seems mostly grounded in reality, whereas Putin has been waging info-wars with lies for years. Putin's overall offensive war strategy relies on gaslighting his opposition. We could have hundreds of satellite images showing Russian tanks crossing over the border into Ukraine, and his response would be

"Those aren't tanks."

"Those aren't Russian tanks."

"Those are possibly Belarussian tanks."

"Maybe the UA or CIA paid crisis actors to invade Belarus to pose as Russians."

"Those aren't real satellite photos."

"Those are satellite photos from 2010."

"That's not even the Ukraine border."

"That was obviously photoshopped."

I don't doubt that Ukraine occasionally releases false information - I suspect that they have inflated Russian casualties from the get-go, but that makes sense and in my view, it's a harmless, even helpful, lie. You want to convince your people and the opposition that you're winning. You want to convince leaders in other countries that you can defeat the mighty Russians - if others can help in time.
 
Putin's invasion doesn't seem to give a lot of credence to him. Furthermore, when I'm in doubt, I listen for what everyone else is saying as an objective third party.
 
Rumpel said:
When Russian news and Ukrainian news contradict each other, who do you tend to believe?
Click to expand...
I would trust Ukrainian news more because Ukraine has been allowing independent foreign news journalists to freely travel and report from Ukraine without any restrictions upon their movements or filters on the content of their reports.
 
Atomic Kid said:
I would trust Ukrainian news more because Ukraine has been allowing independent foreign news journalists to freely travel and report from Ukraine without any restrictions upon their movements or filters on the content of their reports.
Click to expand...
Except in Russian held territory.
 
jpevans said:
Except in Russian held territory.
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I wonder if the support from "The West" will also support the liberation of the Russian held Ukrainian territory.

From what I've seen so far, these are the rules that are guiding the actions of Biden and the rest:

1. Make the Ukrainians just strong enough so they will not lose.
2. Keep the Ukrainians just weak enough so they will not win.

Not that I have been to Ukraine and spoken to anyone, but it seems like this is the playbook to fight a proxy war.

Just keep the war going so the real enemy is bled dry.

If the goal was: "Ukraine Must Win!", Ukraine pilots would be flying the Migs from Poland right now.
 
Considering they tried to silence all news from Russia, I believe Russia.
 
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