When Russian news and Ukrainian news contradict each other, who do you tend to believe?

[Manc Skipper]

The bodies in the streets.

The bodies in the streets, far from being placed there after the Russians left, have been visible on satellite pics for weeks.
It’s really grim seeing Putin apologists peddle conspiracy theories in order to erase & minimise the massacres of Ukrainians now

 

[Rumpel]

The bodies in the streets, far from being placed there after the Russians left, have been visible on satellite pics for weeks.
It’s really grim seeing Putin apologists peddle conspiracy theories in order to erase & minimise the massacres of Ukrainians now

For Putin apologists nothing is too dumb for their conspiracy theories.

 

[Rumpel]

Knowing full well that there was never any justification for Russia's invasion, the only believable side on this issue is the victim of the invasion. Nothing the aggressor says can be believed.

Exactly!

 

[Quag]

In war both sides lie. However always assuming Putin is lying is a very safe bet

 

[ChickenTendies]

Lol

 

[oneworld2]

I didn't vote because it is obvious what the poll shows. That people here believe the only side they are really exposed to, the Ukrainian side. How is that not to be expected?

My belief is that all sides lie and the context for incidents is largely absent.

Things that have made the conflict even more complicated

The fact that there are pro Russian Ukrainians and anti Russian Ukrainians and I can imagine many killings being related to that alone

The fact that we see battered civilian buildings but have no idea what was around them, or not, before they were hit.

The arming of civilians and the possible use of human shields.

All of these things combine to make any assessments of events/pictures/clips being bandied about fraught with problems of reliability imo

 

[Cardinal]

How many times have the Ukrainians been shown to be lying compared to Russia?

I have yet to see an outright fabrication from Ukrainian sources. In fact, I have yet to see an exaggeration, and an exaggeration is the absolute least you’d expect from one side in a war. The closest to propaganda that Ukrainian sources have come is in their characterizations of the war (our soldiers are heroes, Russians are evil, etc), but no exaggerations or lies.

The lies from Russia are just….wow. They’re so loony tunes crazy that I can only assume their target audience is their own people.

 

[oneworld2]

I have yet to see an outright fabrication from Ukrainian sources. In fact, I have yet to see an exaggeration, and an exaggeration is the absolute least you’d expect from one side in a war. The closest to propaganda that Ukrainian sources have come is in their characterizations of the war (our soldiers are heroes, Russians are evil, etc), but no exaggerations or lies.

The lies from Russia are just….wow. They’re so loony tunes crazy that I can only assume their target audience is their own people.

Have you forgotten the Snake Island Ukrainians already? wow

 

[Phys251]

I didn't vote because it is obvious what the poll shows. That people here believe the only side they are really exposed to, the Ukrainian side. How is that not to be expected?

My belief is that all sides lie and the context for incidents is largely absent.

Things that have made the conflict even more complicated

The fact that there are pro Russian Ukrainians and anti Russian Ukrainians and I can imagine many killings being related to that alone

The fact that we see battered civilian buildings but have no idea what was around them, or not, before they were hit.

The arming of civilians and the possible use of human shields.

All of these things combine to make any assessments of events/pictures/clips being bandied about fraught with problems of reliability imo

Have you forgotten the Snake Island Ukrainians already? wow

So you're on Russia's side? Or the both-sides-are-the-same side?

 

[Cardinal]

Have you forgotten the Snake Island Ukrainians already? wow

That was a fog-of-war scenario; not a lie. Ukraine lost contact with the soldiers and believed them to be dead. When they learned otherwise four days later they publicly made the correction.

What public correction can Russia make over the claims that Ukraine was shelling their own cities, or murdering their own civilians just to blame Russia? What correction of the public record can Russia make to excuse their soldiers raping Ukrainian women and branding swastikas into their skin?

 

[oneworld2]

So you're on Russia's side? Or the both-sides-are-the-same side?

When it comes to the footage and alleged crimes. incidents etc that we are seeing I am on the side of waiting for a more clearer picture and independent information gathering. I think it's pretty much impossible to judge many things at the time they are occuring and especially when we are being conditioned into demonizing one side and cannonizing the other.

I recall the Iraqi throwing babies on the maternity hospital floors in Kuwait, the Jessica Lynch story, the toppling of the Saddam statue etc etc

I prefer to wait until a clearer picture emerges and think that this is a sensible approach

 

[Phys251]

When it comes to the footage and alleged crimes. incidents etc that we are seeing I am on the side of waiting for a more clearer picture and independent information gathering. I think it's pretty much impossible to judge many things at the time they are occuring and especially when we are being conditioned into demonizing one side and cannonizing the other.

I recall the Iraqi throwing babies on the maternity hospital floors in Kuwait, the Jessica Lynch story, the toppling of the Saddam statue etc etc

I prefer to wait until a clearer picture emerges and think that this is a sensible approach

So you're on the both-sides-are-the-same side.

 

[trouble13]

I don't place blind faith in any news organization.

 

[oneworld2]

That was a fog-of-war scenario; not a lie. Ukraine lost contact with the soldiers and believed them to be dead. When they learned otherwise four days later they publicly made the correction.

What public correction can Russia make over the claims that Ukraine was shelling their own cities, or murdering their own civilians just to blame Russia? What correction of the public record can Russia make to excuse their soldiers raping Ukrainian women and branding swastikas into their skin?

By that time the GFY symbol of Ukrainian resistance was embedded in the world psyche? Such is war propaganda imo As I said, imo, it's better to wait and see what transpires rather than to believe everything at the time of happening, free from independent verifications

Would you give Russians some slack due to the " fog of war" ? probably not

I have seen Ukrainians being interviewed who have stated that the Ukrainian military have been positioning their tanks etc in front and between civilian structures, thus making them legitimate military targets with only a proportionality definition to be argued over. It didn't bode well when the govt decided to enlist civilian militias.

I try to steer clear of accepting the kneejerk and prefer to wait.

BTW aren't the Ukrainians shelling their own cities in the Donbas and have been for 7 years?

The first casualty of war and all...............

 

[oneworld2]

So you're on the both-sides-are-the-same side.

No because both sides will be lying and telling the truth at the same time imo

I am on the side of wait and see if irrefutable or more concrete evidence comes to light about what is happening before believing either side.

You can be on neither side when it comes to propaganda wars

 

[jpevans]

Better question:
Who lies more, Putin or Trump?

It’s a push…

 

[Chagos]

History has shown that when the Kremlin denies something, one can comfortably assume that it's confirming itself to be the actual perpetrator of what it denies.

When one shows such a history of lying, the boy-who-cried-wolf principle applies by default.

Putin, Lavrov or the rest of the whole lying bunch, they're all the same as those wanting to give them slack on here, except that the latter bunch of sorry apologists doesn't go around killing people.

 

[Cardinal]

By that time the GFY symbol of Ukrainian resistance was embedded in the world psyche? Such is war propaganda imo As I said, imo, it's better to wait and see what transpires rather than to believe everything at the time of happening, free from independent verifications

Would you give Russians some slack due to the " fog of war" ? probably not

I have seen Ukrainians being interviewed who have stated that the Ukrainian military have been positioning their tanks etc in front and between civilian structures, thus making them legitimate military targets with only a proportionality definition to be argued over. It didn't bode well when the govt decided to enlist civilian militias.

I try to steer clear of accepting the kneejerk and prefer to wait.

BTW aren't the Ukrainians shelling their own cities in the Donbas and have been for 7 years?

The first casualty of war and all...............

I wouldn’t give such leeway to Russia because they don’t make “fog of war” inaccurate statements. They just lie.

 

[oneworld2]

I wouldn’t give such leeway to Russia because they don’t make “fog of war” inaccurate statements. They just lie.

All peoples/leaderships lie.I mean look at the list of porkies that were used to justify your own illegal attack on Iraq in 2003?

What about them shelling their own cities in the Donbas ? Is it true?

What about those people in mariupol that said the Ukrainian forces were placing tanks next to the houses? Are they lying? Is it not wholly possible that the likes of Asov fanatics would shoot/human shield use ethnic Russians which make up around half the population of the city?

 

[The flaming lib]

I’ll give the uks the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Cardinal]

All peoples/leaderships lie.

Well, Russia lies, and you lie, but that doesn’t mean that “all peoples’ lie.

 

[oneworld2]

Well, Russia lies, and you lie, but that doesn’t mean that “all peoples’ lie.

Obviously you lost the argument lol

 

[Chagos]

Cardinal finding immediate confirmation.

Priceless.

Of course there is that slight difference that Putin occasionally (IOW when it suits his agenda) will admit to having lied.

 

[The Mark]

When Russian news and Ukrainian news contradict each other, who do you tend to believe?

I tend to believe what Ukrainian news says more, partially because Russia has a long-established trend of bullshit in their state-controlled news organizations.

That said, I am fairly sure Ukraine is doing as much propaganda as possible, which only makes sense since Russia is invading them.


So I believe news from Ukraine over news from Russia while keeping in mind that they're both probably going to put the best light on things possible from their own perspective.

 

[The Mark]

Since the beginning of the war I tended to regard Ukrainian claims with skepticism, because while I clearly side with them, of course they're going to package information in a way that suits them.

However, I've found that the info they've been releasing has ended up being consistently verified and reliable. Russia lies big, and so far Ukraine really hasn't been lying much, if at all.

Also, this person makes an extremely astute point:

I personally think that's what Q Anon does.
And the Trump-style GOP.
Assuming they're not the same thing.

Lie big so people think the truth is somewhere closer to what they want them to believe.