whats your solution for poverty

[MoSurveyor]

Of course, and even all PHDs don't earn their keep. But even a janitor who does a good job tends to earn his pay.

Let the janitorial work go for a few weeks then you can figure out "what it's worth" and whether or not he's getting as much pay as he "deserves". This whole thing about "earning their pay" and "paying them what they produce" is hogwash. I prefer to converse with the real capitalists who speak plainly. A worker is worth his replacement cost - period, end of story. That's how business works. It has NOTHING to do with how much he produces for the company and everything to do with what it would cost to duplicate his output. You could at least be honest about this.

 

[MoSurveyor]

Predictions are based on historical information and variables thwart even the best predictions. Thus anytime some particularly motivated ambitious and skilled pops up and does special things he tends to increase the over all wealth along with his own.

In the overall economy it takes a huge event to make the predictions go south. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, obviously it does or we wouldn't have had the Crash, but it's damn rare and you know it.

 

[MoSurveyor]

Like you said earlier, there are janitors and then their are supervisors.

That doesn't really address the issue to which he was referring. He was talking about a metric for wealth and said leisure time was a good indicator. I disagreed.

 

[MoSurveyor]

I think my post was better the way I wrote it. Like one gentleman said on one of these threads, Obama's re-election led directly to his MNC expanding into a new 10,000 employee in Spain. It doesn't matter who in his administration is setting the tone it is Obama who has to live with the stupidity.

Again you're confusing the administration (Obama) with Washington politics. If the president's policies were enacted as he'd like, even if they were "bad for business", it would still be better for business than the foggy future that's been created by the continual fighting in DC. No one, especially business, likes an uncertain future. Even a poor but known future is better than knowing nothing at all. Not knowing what's coming freezes everything in it's tracks because no one knows which way to turn. The gridlock in DC is what's created the problem, not just the administration. The GOP is just as responsible.

 

[dnsmith]

Let the janitorial work go for a few weeks then you can figure out "what it's worth" and whether or not he's getting as much pay as he "deserves". This whole thing about "earning their pay" and "paying them what they produce" is hogwash. I prefer to converse with the real capitalists who speak plainly. A worker is worth his replacement cost - period, end of story. That's how business works. It has NOTHING to do with how much he produces for the company and everything to do with what it would cost to duplicate his output. You could at least be honest about this.

If it is hog wash a lot of companies are paying a lot of wage specialists to determine the right pay per worker according to his job. Production for the company whether it is a clean shop or a master welder is still production, you really need to learn something about how to determine wage. It is a real science. Skill and prevailing wage is determined by survey. Higher or lower merit pay is determined by production. Your comment, "how much he produces for the company and everything to do with what it would cost to duplicate his output," is the manner one determines how good the production is. You made my case for me, Thanks, and good night. Try to learn a little about these things before going off on a tangent.

 

[dnsmith]

That doesn't really address the issue to which he was referring. He was talking about a metric for wealth and said leisure time was a good indicator. I disagreed.

I did not address the leisure time issue, only the employment/long term growth.

 

[dnsmith]

The GOP is just as responsible.

When it was in power!

 

[dnsmith]

Good night!

 

[MoSurveyor]

If it is hog wash a lot of companies are paying a lot of wage specialists to determine the right pay per worker according to his job. Production for the company whether it is a clean shop or a master welder is still production, you really need to learn something about how to determine wage. It is a real science. Skill and prevailing wage is determined by survey. Higher or lower merit pay is determined by production. Your comment, "how much he produces for the company and everything to do with what it would cost to duplicate his output," is the manner one determines how good the production is. You made my case for me, Thanks, and good night. Try to learn a little about these things before going off on a tangent.

I know all about salary surveys. Being a professional it was part of my semi-annual reading material for both surveyors and engineers. But you've made my point for me by saying that. What does a salary survey really determine? What other companies (the general market) is paying for that kind of labor. In other words, it's the market value of the labor that's being measured in salary surveys. Using that information, wages are then determined as you noted - but the market value of the labor is the starting point. Don't tell me how suck eggs until you learn how to do it yourself.

 

[MoSurveyor]

When it was in power!

Like obstructionism plays no roll and Congress has no power. :lamo




PS
And a good night to you.

 

[MoSurveyor]

I did not address the leisure time issue, only the employment/long term growth.

Since you were addressing a post that was in response to leisure I assumed you were talking about the same thing, leisure. :shrug:

 

[Catawba]

I hate to be the one to tell you Catawba, but that still does not discuss long term economic growth.

Long term economic growth can not occur as long as most of the county's wealth is concentrated at the top. Just as we did after the Great Depression, we are now making the same corrections to the tax system we had to make then to restore progressivity to our tax system.

 

[AlabamaPaul]

Dangerous to make blanket statements. The portion of stimulus that went into infrastructure would be VERY beneficial to the economy in the long term. Since several state and federal governments have let the infrastructure so critical to commerce fall into dissrepair, one could argue not only was the end product beneficial to the economy, but doing it in a time of recession should have given better bang for the tax bux since the work had to be done some time anyhow.

If we are just talking about the reduction in unemployment rate directly benefiting the LONG term of economic measure, not so sure that would be the case. Obviously, in the short term, it at least SHOWS some political, warm, fuzzy numbers, but...

I never disagreed that the stimulus helped in the short term, but there have been no lasting effects. The vast majority of it was misdirected. The aid to States was temporary and only served to delay the tough decisions that needed to be made. The tax cut portion was laughably small and again mis-targeted. The small amount that actually did go to infrastructure has had no long lasting effects that I can see.

In the four years since the recession ended GDP growth is barely keping up with inflation, and there are still millions looking for gainful employment. DC is more dysfunctional than I have ever seen which is the result of sharp policy differences where neither party is willling to work with the other. The President seems content with running in perpetual campaign mode. Rather than leading the nation and the Congress as a whole, he continues to pander only to his base...

 

[cannuck]

I never disagreed that the stimulus helped in the short term, but there have been no lasting effects. The vast majority of it was misdirected. The aid to States was temporary and only served to delay the tough decisions that needed to be made.

Couldn't agree more with your post, EXCEPT for those projects that went into public works. Not some stroke of genius by the Dummycrats, just the fact of doing what NONE of the last few Uniparty administrations had been doing. Catch-up work if you will, but definitely of long term benefit.

 

[GottaGo]

Are you saying that an expanding balloon doesn't exist? Or that there's no amount that's 100% of the balloon at any time? That's not sound reasoning by anyone's standard.

If you continue adding air to a balloon, it will eventually explode because it's perimeter is a solid entity.

The world of the currency, by the government's expression, is elastic. It can continue to grow, but each part of it will devalue to allow additional components.

If the currency is finite, and they continue to add to the monetary 'pie', then it to will eventually explode and collapse likethe balloon.

In the world of labor for money, the two possible events if you continue to add to the monetary 'pie' culminate in the same event: the collapse of the currency.

So is it finite or infinite?

 

[Heebie Jeebie]

I hope you posted that with your tongue in your cheek, because it is a lot of hoacum.

No I am serious. If you want everything to be 'equal' then you have to go down to the lowest common denominator.
There is no way that every school is going to have the same parental involvement, no way that every school is going to have the same resources, no way every school is going to have the same quality of teachers, no way that every kid will have the same opportunities. Why people keep harping on making schools equal is beyond me. Why should the good schools be punished simply because they are good?

 

[Heebie Jeebie]

You forgot all this:

"The legislation also made significant changes to the estate, gift and generation-skipping transfer taxes. It scheduled gradual reductions of these maximum tax rates from 55 percent to 35 percent in 2010 and repealed the 5 percent surtax on estates larger than $10 million. Beyond this, it increased the minimum threshold needed for estate tax and generation-skipping tax eligibility from $700,000 in 2002 to $3.5 million in 2009, finally abolishing them entirely in 2010. It also raised the lifetime exemption on the gift tax to $1 million.

Bush's 2003 tax-cut package accelerated many of the original law's tax changes. It also eliminated the long-term capital-gains tax on individuals and couples in the two lowest marginal income brackets, and the 20 percent capital-gains tax bracket fell to 15 percent. And it eliminated the capital gains tax treatment for assets held longer than five years, folding it into the standard long-term rate, which is accessible at one year. Qualified dividends shifted from tax treatment as ordinary income into capital gains."

Breaking Down the Cliff: The Bush Tax Cuts - Bloomberg

I didn't miss that part. I did miss the part where it applies only to the rich though. Just because my great grand uncle is loaded doesn't mean I'm rich when he dies and his fortune is split between 50 people.

So what does your post have to do with the tax cut I, and the tens of millions of others, still get?

 

[Heebie Jeebie]

Yes I disagree. I've just documented that both the CBO and 80% of economists agree unemployment would have been worse without the stimulus.

Are they counting the jobs 'saved'? Oh yeah they can't count them, they can only claim it happened as there is no way of showing otherwise. It's nice when you can just make a claim out of thin air and require it to be believed as fact.

 

[Alyssa]

No I am serious. If you want everything to be 'equal' then you have to go down to the lowest common denominator.
There is no way that every school is going to have the same parental involvement, no way that every school is going to have the same resources, no way every school is going to have the same quality of teachers, no way that every kid will have the same opportunities. Why people keep harping on making schools equal is beyond me. Why should the good schools be punished simply because they are good?

True equality is not possible in nature. There's always someone/something better or worse.

 

[cannuck]

No I am serious. If you want everything to be 'equal' then you have to go down to the lowest common denominator.
There is no way that every school is going to have the same parental involvement, no way that every school is going to have the same resources, no way every school is going to have the same quality of teachers, no way that every kid will have the same opportunities. Why people keep harping on making schools equal is beyond me. Why should the good schools be punished simply because they are good?

Sorry I didn't get to comment on the post leading to this yesterday. Everything I hear from the educators in my family are precisely in line with your statement. Good to know that not EVERYONE in education is a union hack preaching the socialist bible.

Excellence is what should be REWARDED and promoted, not penalized and eliminated. While it is laudable to do everything we can to bring the bottom of the learning group up to somewhere in the middle, it is no where near as important as finding the real stars (the ones who are there to LEARN, not just pass tests) and isolate them from the clutter and waste of the mind-numbing process of teaching to the lowest common denominator. To see PCLL principles succeed, we need to pour money into the lowest economic ranks. To see the COUNTRY succeed, we need to pour our efforts into those with the intellectual gift and personal discipline to lead and discover.

One thing I will say with great emphasis: financial privilege has absolutely no lock on intellectual potential. You can educate the living crap out of a kid from the ghetto or 90210, and you will just make a well educated, idiotic a-hole.

 

[Alyssa]

Sorry I didn't get to comment on the post leading to this yesterday. Everything I hear from the educators in my family are precisely in line with your statement. Good to know that not EVERYONE in education is a union hack preaching the socialist bible.

Excellence is what should be REWARDED and promoted, not penalized and eliminated. While it is laudable to do everything we can to bring the bottom of the learning group up to somewhere in the middle, it is no where near as important as finding the real stars (the ones who are there to LEARN, not just pass tests) and isolate them from the clutter and waste of the mind-numbing process of teaching to the lowest common denominator. To see PCLL principles succeed, we need to pour money into the lowest economic ranks. To see the COUNTRY succeed, we need to pour our efforts into those with the intellectual gift and personal discipline to lead and create.

One thing I will say with great emphasis: financial privilege has absolutely no lock on intellectual potential. You can educate the living crap out of a kid from the ghetto or 90210, and you will just make a well educated, idiotic a-hole.

It has been demonstrated many times that simply throwing money at education will not improve the results. The issue is largely a cultural one. If a specific culture values education, then the children will be educated despite the many hurdles and problems encountered. If, however, education is not valued, then no amount of expenditures will improve the results.

 

[Fenton]

Reminds me of Clinton's second
term....stand back and watch. Before it's over things will be humming again in spite of the do nothing Republican house.

Clinton's 1995 National Home Ownership Strategy and his appointing of criminals like Jamie Gorelick and Franklin Raines to head up Fannie Mae increased homeownership from 63% to 68%.

It also led to the collapse of the sub-prime industry in 2008.

Your assertion that things will " be humming again " is based on what data ?

Wait.....your'e the guy that was celebrating the Stock Market right ?

The DOW that's inflated with printed currency, that is allowing the rich to get richer ?

While 50 million people depend on food stamps.

Your'e silly.

 

[GottaGo]

I really feel this says a great deal about education:

 

[Heebie Jeebie]

It has been demonstrated many times that simply throwing money at education will not improve the results. The issue is largely a cultural one. If a specific culture values education, then the children will be educated despite the many hurdles and problems encountered. If, however, education is not valued, then no amount of expenditures will improve the results.

True. If money was the solution we would be graduating Einsteins at an amazing rate!

 

[Masada]

So much for "If you have to move to get a job then you should!"

You guys are so inconsistent at times.

I've stated PRECISELY why the wage gap is increasing. It has nothing to do with tax rates. It has nothing to do with Wall Street, corporations, corporate profits, CEO salaries, or stupid opinions found in this forum.

I've given statistics on the middle class and how it relates to cost of living, government regulations on industry, and marriage rates. All backed up with data from the IRS, and from the 2010 census.

If people like you wanna go on blaming the rich, be my guest. In doing so, it's like blaming hurricanes on Girl Scout cookies. We've done what liberals said we should do. We've dramatically increased entitlements, and have made our tax system far more progressive over the last 20 years. To the point that today, the top 20% of earners pay 78% of the entire tax bill. What's the result? The speed at which the wage gap is getting wider has sped up. Record numbers of people on food stamps. Record number of people who depend on some form of government entitlement. DESPITE doing what liberals say works.

Good luck with all your leftist intentions. Meanwhile, we'll all set back and watch more and more people fall into poverty. More rich people getting richer. We'll set back and watch the wealth gap grow wider, while more people succumb to the liberal wet dream of government dependent society.