What's your position on School Choice?

[BirdinHand]

WTF? What exactly do you think the US Dept of Education does in K-12 schools?

Right!

 

[BlueTex]

Hmm… if Johnny or Sally wants to self-identify as a rabbit, nudist, superhero, King or Queen then their wish (delusion?) must be accepted and properly respected.

Little Johnny or Sally self-identifying as whatever they want isn't causing your little Donald to be a stupid dip shit... Your little Donald is most likely a dip shit because that is what he is surrounded by at home...

 

[Integrityrespec]

The only thing vouchers do is defund public schools for the kids that have nowhere else to go


Your kid isn’t going to be attending the $20K annual tuition private school my kid goes to with a voucher.

Maybe they can go to St Throw up a shingle private school…or ABC learning academy with staff that’s being paid minimally.

But they aren’t competing with the elite private schools.



And who else do we refund tax dollars to?

The childless couple?
The empty nesters no longer having kids in schools?
The single people?

Do they all get their tax money back also?

I didn't hear anyone indicate any of those things you just suggested. The bottom line is trying to help kids get a better education and trying to get the taxpayer a better outcome from the money they invest.
There are plenty of good and achieving private schools that don't cost $20,000. This is really about opportunity and what happens when the opportunity at your local school is not very good.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Right! We need those poor kids back in the fields and factories where they belong like back when America was great. LMAO!

They’ve been replaced by ‘undocumented’ immigrants.

 

[BirdinHand]

I didn't hear anyone indicate any of those things you just suggested. The bottom line is trying to help kids get a better education and trying to get the taxpayer a better outcome from the money they invest.
There are plenty of good and achieving private schools that don't cost $20,000. This is really about opportunity and what happens when the opportunity at your local school is not very good.

If family A can pull their tax dollars from the local school district because they want Johnny to attend ABC learning corner, why can’t family B simply not pay school taxes if they don’t have kids?

 

[Luce]

If family A can pull their tax dollars from the local school district because they want Johnny to attend ABC learning corner, why can’t family B simply not pay school taxes if they don’t have kids?

I prefer the existing solution.

Everyone pays property tax. If parents want their precious little sprogs to go to private schools, they can do so on their own dime.

They still have to pay the taxes in addition to the private school's tuition.

 

[BlueTex]

I didn't hear anyone indicate any of those things you just suggested. The bottom line is trying to help kids get a better education and trying to get the taxpayer a better outcome from the money they invest.
There are plenty of good and achieving private schools that don't cost $20,000. This is really about opportunity and what happens when the opportunity at your local school is not very good.

Buy that bullshit if it makes you feel better, but its not really the case... You seem to operate under the delusion that you can create this kind of approach on a state wide or national level and that that your experiences in your little neck of the woods is true across the country. How many private schools are there in Midland/Odessa?

 

[Integrityrespec]

Show me a kid of normal intelligence in virtually any school district in America who is failing either academically or behaviorally and I will show you a parent who has checked out.

People are under the misconception that it is the schools' responsibility to educate their kids. This is not true. It is the parents' responsibility to educate their offspring. The schools are simply there to facilitate that objective. Unfortunately, no politician is willing to say this. Easy to blame the teachers. In reality, in almost every instance of a failure, the parents are the weakest link. And I am speaking as a parent myself.

I'd say in a lot of instances you are correct, not always. So many circumstances come into play. However parenting is a key and being active in your kids education is a huge plus. That's why I earlier said the parents as well as the child should be held accountable for the voucher money that is going out to a private school. If after a reasonable time and in a school which has a good record of achievement a student is doing badly maybe it's time to put them back into public school and return those funds to the public system. The basics of education are being able to read and write at grade level and that's pretty easy to evaluate. Many private schools have academic standards for admission and for retaining their spot on the roll. You can flunk out.
My own children, all grown and with their own families are products of public schools and fortunately for my pocketbook they all earned scholarship money for college. So getting a good education is not impossible at the public institutions but as has been noted several times, parenting plays a huge part in the student performance and the kind of job the school is doing.
One of the controversial issues in public schools is how do you handle repeated discipline issues and keep a good academic atmosphere? In private schools they will get rid of you. In public schools that does happen sometimes but it's very difficult to do. Setting the proper parameters and holding everyone to them is a key.

 

[Integrityrespec]

I prefer the existing solution.

Everyone pays property tax. If parents want their precious little sprogs to go to private schools, they can do so on their own dime.

They still have to pay the taxes in addition to the private school's tuition.

For the same reason that family B pays taxes to help build roads, finance emergency services, build schools, libraries, museums, bridges and airports that they may never use. It's part of being a citizen and helping the nation get things done.

 

[BlueTex]

I'd say in a lot of instances you are correct, not always. So many circumstances come into play. However parenting is a key and being active in your kids education is a huge plus. That's why I earlier said the parents as well as the child should be held accountable for the voucher money that is going out to a private school. If after a reasonable time and in a school which has a good record of achievement a student is doing badly maybe it's time to put them back into public school and return those funds to the public system. The basics of education are being able to read and write at grade level and that's pretty easy to evaluate. Many private schools have academic standards for admission and for retaining their spot on the roll. You can flunk out.
My own children, all grown and with their own families are products of public schools and fortunately for my pocketbook they all earned scholarship money for college. So getting a good education is not impossible at the public institutions but as has been noted several times, parenting plays a huge part in the student performance and the kind of job the school is doing.
One of the controversial issues in public schools is how do you handle repeated discipline issues and keep a good academic atmosphere? In private schools they will get rid of you. In public schools that does happen sometimes but it's very difficult to do. Setting the proper parameters and holding everyone to them is a key.

Why do you suppose it is very difficult for public schools to "get rid of you"?

 

[Stealers Wheel]

I have to be honest. I am not sure how much better private schools would be if they also had to follow the Federal "Equity" rules for Federal funding. Or if the State they operate in also or separately have such "Equity" rules for State vouchers.

IMO the whole reason for allowing more private schooling access should be to allow parents to send their kids to school for an education, not social equity indoctrination.

None of this "they/them, xe/xem, ze/zim, sie/hir" or other nonsense pronouns and other ridiculous examples of woke DEI/Whatever ideologies. Better yet, all of that nonsense of word and identity gaming needs to stop being pushed in public schools at all levels, and definitely not a requirement for funding any private schools.

Now if some "socially enlightened" parents want to pay to send their kids to a private school that plays the woke agenda, then (sadly) they can do so.

But Public schools should not be allowed to spread this mind virus amongst our children. If they do, then parents should be able to use school vouchers equal to the amounts given to Public schools to send their kids to an honest private educational facility.

​

What about accountability? If my kid has a voucher, does the private school have to let him in? If not, is anyone going to look into the reason why a particular school rejects applicants? Or, are there certain 'trends,' like 90% of the kids rejected are non-white? Or perhaps we see that the kids who are accepted with vouchers also have parents who donate significantly with the associated church. Is that a fair way to determine which kids get the more elite education? Or, are we going to have some guidelines, some regulations, some ACCOUNTABILITY?

 

[Ginger Ale]

For the same reason that family B pays taxes to help build roads, finance emergency services, build schools, libraries, museums, bridges and airports that they may never use. It's part of being a citizen and helping the nation get things done.

We should add healthcare into that, including eye and teeth care. It's far cheaper when we all pitch in and help each other!

 

[Integrityrespec]

Have you ever asked teachers from struggling schools why they aren't more successful?

I taught in such a school. I often wondered if they had a single book in their home or if the kids had ever been read to. And then there were the kids who don't show up at all or rarely do.

In short, schools struggle because parents don't understand how education works. They, in turn, were probably not read to and had few or no books in the home. They seem to feel either that somehow the schools will take care of everything, or their miseducation is acceptable to them.

You are talking about a need for education programs for young parents on how important it is to be involved in their child's learning. There are many programs that provide books at early ages and of course public libraries, but the seed has to be planted. That's a place where the government at every level should be more involved in initiating those programs.
Wouldn't it be great if along with going to the prediatrition for the physical health of the child every mom and dad were getting handed some books to read and to read to the child.
Exposure is key.

 

[KingLeo]

Vouchers are fine BUT if private or charter schools are accepting public tax monies via vouchers then the private and charter schools MUST abide by the same state and federal educational guidelines and regulations as public schools do.
I see over and over again that the private and charter schools want the public tax monies for education, most often collected through property taxes, but they do not want to follow state and federal guidelines and regulations.
They can not have it both ways, i.e. collect public tax monies but ignore state and federal guidelines and regulations.

 

[Luce]

For the same reason that family B pays taxes to help build roads, finance emergency services, build schools, libraries, museums, bridges and airports that they may never use. It's part of being a citizen and helping the nation get things done.

Precisely.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

I'd say in a lot of instances you are correct, not always. So many circumstances come into play. However parenting is a key and being active in your kids education is a huge plus. That's why I earlier said the parents as well as the child should be held accountable for the voucher money that is going out to a private school. If after a reasonable time and in a school which has a good record of achievement a student is doing badly maybe it's time to put them back into public school and return those funds to the public system. The basics of education are being able to read and write at grade level and that's pretty easy to evaluate. Many private schools have academic standards for admission and for retaining their spot on the roll. You can flunk out.
My own children, all grown and with their own families are products of public schools and fortunately for my pocketbook they all earned scholarship money for college. So getting a good education is not impossible at the public institutions but as has been noted several times, parenting plays a huge part in the student performance and the kind of job the school is doing.
One of the controversial issues in public schools is how do you handle repeated discipline issues and keep a good academic atmosphere? In private schools they will get rid of you. In public schools that does happen sometimes but it's very difficult to do. Setting the proper parameters and holding everyone to them is a key.

And, with that (bolded) you have just upset the private school's budget. What are they going to do? Take that lying down? I don't think so. They will make sure that kid gets a passing grade rather than lose the money. Sound familiar? Congratulations. You have just turned a private school into a public school.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Buy that bullshit if it makes you feel better, but its not really the case... You seem to operate under the delusion that you can create this kind of approach on a state wide or national level and that that your experiences in your little neck of the woods is true across the country. How many private schools are there in Midland/Odessa?

So that's where you develop other alternatives or you just get busy to fix the schools. Which BTW I suggested early on in the discussion. The real value of vouchers is choice and putting pressure on public schools to do better.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Should taxpayers be able to get vouchers for school choice? This would allow parents to select the school they think would be best for their child's education. They would be able to use their tax dollars to fund a choice in the school their child attends!
Whats your opinion and why?

 

[Safiel]

I homeschooled my own kids. Classic education style. I did so entirely on my own dime, paying school property taxes the entire time.

Public education is a publicly funded service, as is the police and fire departments and money should not be diverted from them for private educational options.

But that is NOT my primary reason to oppose diversion of public funding.

My primary funding is that government money is NEVER free.

It may appear to be at first.

But once the programs go into full effect and the people are hooked on the public money, THEN the strings will appear. Just a few at first, but with more to follow.

For example, to get money for homeschooling, you will have to agree to conditions and other terms. Same with private schools. And it will just get more onerous.

Until the government is completely in control of homeschooling and private education.

So I absolutely oppose all diversion of money to either private schools or homeschooling.

Parents should pay for it 100% on their own dime, as I did.

 

[rjay]

Should taxpayers be able to get vouchers for school choice? This would allow parents to select the school they think would be best for their child's education. They would be able to use their tax dollars to fund a choice in the school their child attends!
Whats your opinion and why?

I am against it. The name sounds nice though, I can see why it is easy to sell.

 

[Safiel]

Compare it to the drug dealer.

The first hit is free.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Well, this has been interesting. Got to say for the most part it's been enlightening and enjoyable. Seems there can be a pretty good dialogue on DB.

 

[Integrityrespec]

I am against it. The name sounds nice though, I can see why it is easy to sell.

So why are you opposed?

 

[Integrityrespec]

I homeschooled my own kids. Classic education style. I did so entirely on my own dime, paying school property taxes the entire time.

Public education is a publicly funded service, as is the police and fire departments and money should not be diverted from them for private educational options.

But that is NOT my primary reason to oppose diversion of public funding.

My primary funding is that government money is NEVER free.

It may appear to be at first.

But once the programs go into full effect and the people are hooked on the public money, THEN the strings will appear. Just a few at first, but with more to follow.

For example, to get money for homeschooling, you will have to agree to conditions and other terms. Same with private schools. And it will just get more onerous.

Until the government is completely in control of homeschooling and private education.

So I absolutely oppose all diversion of money to either private schools or homeschooling.

Parents should pay for it 100% on their own dime, as I did.

So you have some well explained opposition. If everything the government paid for was stopped because of citizens that disagreed with was stopped, we'd have nothing. However, it's discussion like this that leads to answers that the majority can live with, hopefully.
As I said, my kids and my grandkids are all products of or are still enrolled in public schools and I think they all received very good educations but I also recognize that times have changed and some public schools are falling woefully short of their jobs. To me the alternative is more choice and competition and hopefully those running the public schools will do a better job.

 

[rjay]

So why are you opposed?

There are certain things that are in place for the benefit of the Country as a whole. When problems are evident, I think the problems should be addressed with solutions that seek to resolve the problem.
School choice seems like a way to say, 'Not only am I not going to participate in a solution, but It's not even my problem anymore. While at the same time making the problems even worse for others.